It appears the system is working

[Artemus]

The Associated Press says that Mueller's investigation of all things Russian now includes Manafort and may soon be expanded to examine Sessions's and Rosenstein's roles in the firings of Comey. I think that we are going to eventually have a pretty good idea of what actually really happened and why. It seems that the attitude of just enough people in a position of authority is that "The American people have the right to know." That phrase is abused so much that I usually find it beyond annoying, but in this case it seems that just enough people are willing to put politics aside when there is genuine concern of serious tampering and/or corruption. While proceeding very slowly, the checks-and-balances system does seem to be on track.

Hopefully my optimism will prove well founded.

 

[untermensche]

There were some efforts by the Russians to establish ties with people in the Trump administration.

I think maybe the crimes were lying about it and trying to cover up the lies.

I'm not sure the contact was criminal.

 

[Elixir]

There were some efforts by the Russians to establish ties with people in the Trump administration.

I think maybe the crimes were lying about it and trying to cover up the lies.

I'm not sure the contact was criminal.

Agree. When (if) the dust settles. I believe that a culture of corruption will be laid bare, but other than a few fringe players, nobody is going to go to jail. That is, unless Cheato starts pulling out all the stops - tries to suppress Comey's testimony next week, and keeps trying to obstruct the investigations. As those efforts become ever more transparent, it becomes harder and harder to deny that Vlad has the dirt on him. At some point, Putin might play his hand; his "Trump card" as it were. Then all bets are off and Trump himself might be headed up the river.

 

[Artemus]

There were some efforts by the Russians to establish ties with people in the Trump administration.

I think maybe the crimes were lying about it and trying to cover up the lies.

I'm not sure the contact was criminal.

I'm not convinced beyond a reasonable doubt of anything yet, which is why I'm glad that the investigation seems to be moving forward unobstructed. It's going to be fascinating to see what the reality was/is. The political fallout will likely be huge no matter what is found, but that's not the primary concern yet. Patience is the word now.

 

[braces_for_impact]

I'm glad the scope of the investigation is broadening. Some of what may be happening may not be technically illegal yet since there's a lof of firsts taking pace in these circumstances. It's also good that we're not putting all of the efforts into proving collusion, because we may not be able to prove that, yet there could still be a lot of activity that's going on that isn't above board.

I would love to find out what the Trump administration is doing though, and since the entire enterprise is an amateur train wreck, we may well find out.

 

[TV and credit cards]

There were some efforts by the Russians to establish ties with people in the Trump administration.

I think maybe the crimes were lying about it and trying to cover up the lies.

I'm not sure the contact was criminal.

Agree. When (if) the dust settles. I believe that a culture of corruption will be laid bare, but other than a few fringe players, nobody is going to go to jail. That is, unless Cheato starts pulling out all the stops - tries to suppress Comey's testimony next week, and keeps trying to obstruct the investigations. As those efforts become ever more transparent, it becomes harder and harder to deny that Vlad has the dirt on him. At some point, Putin might play his hand; his "Trump card" as it were. Then all bets are off and Trump himself might be headed up the river.

It's a wonderful thought. I don't know why this situation would cause Putin to show his card. My assumption is this relationship is based on loan repayment; repayment that comes in other than cash form.

I wonder if Trump's tax returns can be subpoenaed? That'd be one way for Trump to stick with tradition.

 

[Copernicus]

There were some efforts by the Russians to establish ties with people in the Trump administration.

I think maybe the crimes were lying about it and trying to cover up the lies.

I'm not sure the contact was criminal.

That is for a prosecutor to determine. Conspiring with a foreign government to undermine an election would be criminal, and it would clearly be an impeachable offense. So is bribery, and there is a possibility of a quid pro quo here--financial incentives to Trump and to the Russian kleptocrats. Of course, it will be easier to prove obstruction of justice, as the President has already admitted publicly and repeatedly that his purpose in firing Comey was to make an official FBI investigation go away. This Congress is unlikely to do anything about it, so Trump is effectively above the law at this point. It is possible that Trump will use his power of the pardon to obstruct the investigation, if it appears to be closing in on him. Congress is packed with people who are intent on looking the other way, so he might get away it with after all the screaming and complaining dies down. Unfortunately, American voters have a short attention span and are just as likely to look the other way when they get tired of all the fuss. Won't be the first time that that has happened.

 

[untermensche]

There were some efforts by the Russians to establish ties with people in the Trump administration.

I think maybe the crimes were lying about it and trying to cover up the lies.

I'm not sure the contact was criminal.

That is for a prosecutor to determine. Conspiring with a foreign government to undermine an election would be criminal, and it would clearly be an impeachable offense. So is bribery, and there is a possibility of a quid pro quo here--financial incentives to Trump and to the Russian kleptocrats. Of course, it will be easier to prove obstruction of justice, as the President has already admitted publicly and repeatedly that his purpose in firing Comey was to make an official FBI investigation go away. This Congress is unlikely to do anything about it, so Trump is effectively above the law at this point. It is possible that Trump will use his power of the pardon to obstruct the investigation, if it appears to be closing in on him. Congress is packed with people who are intent on looking the other way, so he might get away it with after all the screaming and complaining dies down. Unfortunately, American voters have a short attention span and are just as likely to look the other way when they get tired of all the fuss. Won't be the first time that that has happened.

The US system is so corrupted by money I have doubts the Russians could have any major impact in further corrupting it.

Bernie was cheated out of the nomination by a corrupted Democratic party.

Trump won the nomination because the Republican process has been taken over by the insane.

There is nothing about the system to defend really. It should be replaced with some form of democracy.

 

[Harry Bosch]

That is for a prosecutor to determine. Conspiring with a foreign government to undermine an election would be criminal, and it would clearly be an impeachable offense. So is bribery, and there is a possibility of a quid pro quo here--financial incentives to Trump and to the Russian kleptocrats. Of course, it will be easier to prove obstruction of justice, as the President has already admitted publicly and repeatedly that his purpose in firing Comey was to make an official FBI investigation go away. This Congress is unlikely to do anything about it, so Trump is effectively above the law at this point. It is possible that Trump will use his power of the pardon to obstruct the investigation, if it appears to be closing in on him. Congress is packed with people who are intent on looking the other way, so he might get away it with after all the screaming and complaining dies down. Unfortunately, American voters have a short attention span and are just as likely to look the other way when they get tired of all the fuss. Won't be the first time that that has happened.

The US system is so corrupted by money I have doubts the Russians could have any major impact in further corrupting it.

Bernie was cheated out of the nomination by a corrupted Democratic party.

Trump won the nomination because the Republican process has been taken over by the insane.

There is nothing about the system to defend really. It should be replaced with some form of democracy.

How was Bernie cheated? Do you think that he should have gotten the nomination despite the fact that he had fewer votes?

 

[untermensche]

How was Bernie cheated? Do you think that he should have gotten the nomination despite the fact that he had fewer votes?

He had to run against Hillary and the Democratic party.

It was not a level playing field.

The primary system is as corrupted as the general election.

Not much about the system is worth defending.

Bernie is far from the ideal candidate for the left, but he is a much better candidate than Hillary for them.

The nomination of Hillary took the wind out of the sails of the left.

Now all they had was a vote against Trump instead of a vote for something.

 

[Copernicus]

How was Bernie cheated? Do you think that he should have gotten the nomination despite the fact that he had fewer votes?

He had to run against Hillary and the Democratic party.

It was not a level playing field.

The primary system is as corrupted as the general election.

Not much about the system is worth defending.

Bernie is far from the ideal candidate for the left, but he is a much better candidate than Hillary for them.

The nomination of Hillary took the wind out of the sails of the left.

Now all they had was a vote against Trump instead of a vote for something.

I've had enough of all the nutty Sanders supporters who can't move on from having legitimately lost the primaries. It was clear on April 26 last year that Sanders could not win the nomination. In spite of that reality, he decided not to concede and join ranks to defeat Trump until he had done some real lasting damage to her chances. She won the nomination for a very simple reason--Sanders did not have broad support among two very large constituencies in the Democratic base, African Americans and Hispanics. He also failed to convince moderates that he had a better chance than Clinton to win the general election. She was still a weak candidate, and she failed to win a general election that she should have won handily. She is now history. We now have the Republican Party in charge of all three branches of government, and we can all collectively share the blame for that.

 

[Juma]

He had to run against Hillary and the Democratic party.

It was not a level playing field.

The primary system is as corrupted as the general election.

Not much about the system is worth defending.

Bernie is far from the ideal candidate for the left, but he is a much better candidate than Hillary for them.

The nomination of Hillary took the wind out of the sails of the left.

Now all they had was a vote against Trump instead of a vote for something.

I've had enough of all the nutty Sanders supporters who can't move on from having legitimately lost the primaries. It was clear on April 26 last year that Sanders could not win the nomination. In spite of that reality, he decided not to concede and join ranks to defeat Trump until he had done some real lasting damage to her chances. She won the nomination for a very simple reason--Sanders did not have broad support among two very large constituencies in the Democratic base, African Americans and Hispanics. He also failed to convince moderates that he had a better chance than Clinton to win the general election. She was still a weak candidate, and she failed to win a general election that she should have won handily. She is now history. We now have the Republican Party in charge of all three branches of government,


and we can all collectively share the blame for that.

No. only those that voted for Trump
and those that has constructed the bizarre US voting counting system
are to blame for that.

 

[AdamWho]

Why is anybody talking about Sanders?

There is a lying, corrupt, traitor in the White House and you are worried about and independent not getting the Democratic nomination?

 

[untermensche]

He had to run against Hillary and the Democratic party.

It was not a level playing field.

The primary system is as corrupted as the general election.

Not much about the system is worth defending.

Bernie is far from the ideal candidate for the left, but he is a much better candidate than Hillary for them.

The nomination of Hillary took the wind out of the sails of the left.

Now all they had was a vote against Trump instead of a vote for something.

I've had enough of all the nutty Sanders supporters who can't move on from having legitimately lost the primaries. It was clear on April 26 last year that Sanders could not win the nomination. In spite of that reality, he decided not to concede and join ranks to defeat Trump until he had done some real lasting damage to her chances. She won the nomination for a very simple reason--Sanders did not have broad support among two very large constituencies in the Democratic base, African Americans and Hispanics. He also failed to convince moderates that he had a better chance than Clinton to win the general election. She was still a weak candidate, and she failed to win a general election that she should have won handily. She is now history. We now have the Republican Party in charge of all three branches of government, and we can all collectively share the blame for that.

It was never a fair fight.

It was Bernie against Hillary AND the Democratic party. From day 1.

I am sick of the Bernie haters that gave us Trump by nominating an incredibly flawed candidate.

 

[Opoponax]

We now have the Republican Party in charge of all three branches of government, and we can all collectively share the blame for that.

Bullshit.

I take no responsibility for the vile septic tank stuck-in-reverse that's currently called the President of the United States.

The blame lies with everyone who didn't vote for Hillary or didn't vote at all, and the electoral college system which gave us George W. Bush and now Trump.

 

[Harry Bosch]

I've had enough of all the nutty Sanders supporters who can't move on from having legitimately lost the primaries. It was clear on April 26 last year that Sanders could not win the nomination. In spite of that reality, he decided not to concede and join ranks to defeat Trump until he had done some real lasting damage to her chances. She won the nomination for a very simple reason--Sanders did not have broad support among two very large constituencies in the Democratic base, African Americans and Hispanics. He also failed to convince moderates that he had a better chance than Clinton to win the general election. She was still a weak candidate, and she failed to win a general election that she should have won handily. She is now history. We now have the Republican Party in charge of all three branches of government, and we can all collectively share the blame for that.

It was never a fair fight.

It was Bernie against Hillary AND the Democratic party. From day 1.

I am sick of the Bernie haters that gave us Trump by nominating an incredibly flawed candidate.

Buddy: it's never a fair fight! You think that Obama had a fair fight? JFK? Kerry? Deliberate obstacles and put in place for first timers as it's natural for the establishment to prefer the early leaders.

 

[Horatio Parker]

I've had enough of all the nutty Sanders supporters who can't move on from having legitimately lost the primaries. It was clear on April 26 last year that Sanders could not win the nomination.

If you follow the statisticians, they said after New Hampshire on Feb. 9th that, barring a major shift in core HRC voters, there was no way Sanders could win. And that's what happened.

 

[braces_for_impact]

Why is anybody talking about Sanders?

There is a lying, corrupt, traitor in the White House and you are worried about and independent not getting the Democratic nomination?

Those that I see still crying foul in regards to the Democratic primaries seem to be the most concerned about the present integrity of the Democratic party, at least as far as being a party for the poor and middle class instead of Wall Street. I think they have a fair point in that, too. I wanted Bernie too, but he lost, and pretty fairly - at least as far as the Democratic party was concerned. Yes, there were some minor shenanigans, but nothing that seemed to affect the overall outcome by much at all. What DID effect it was the Russians, again. Remember the release of a lot of the info to Wikileaks involved the Democratic party talking about Sanders and some minor scheming, which didn't seem to amount to much as far as what they actually did. BUT, the media flocked to the Wikileaks material like a moth to the flame and gave it undue attention in both the case of the Primary and the final presidential election.

I think this distinction is important, because since the Russian hacking was so spectacularly successful, even if by accident, we're sure to see more in upcoming elections. The media are going to have to come to terms with the fact that if they continuously allow themselves to become manipulated by these techniques to release only one side of any election contest, they are going to be aiding in the manipulation of that election. Look, we know from past experience with hackings how this shit works. Look to the Climategate controversy for an excellent example. If an unauthorized release of email from any large operation, there are going to be bits that look nefarious or juicy out of context. We're going to have to learn how to deal with this shit, because it ain't goin' away.

 

[Axulus]

I've had enough of all the nutty Sanders supporters who can't move on from having legitimately lost the primaries. It was clear on April 26 last year that Sanders could not win the nomination. In spite of that reality, he decided not to concede and join ranks to defeat Trump until he had done some real lasting damage to her chances. She won the nomination for a very simple reason--Sanders did not have broad support among two very large constituencies in the Democratic base, African Americans and Hispanics. He also failed to convince moderates that he had a better chance than Clinton to win the general election. She was still a weak candidate, and she failed to win a general election that she should have won handily. She is now history. We now have the Republican Party in charge of all three branches of government, and we can all collectively share the blame for that.

It was never a fair fight.

It was Bernie against Hillary AND the Democratic party. From day 1.

I am sick of the Bernie haters that gave us Trump by nominating an incredibly flawed candidate.

And what did Bernie contribute to the Democratic Party over the last 30 years? Are you trying to make the absurd claim that his contributions (by shunning them and running as a life long independent) are equal to Hillary's?

Furthermore, there is clear evidence that the Republician Party tried to hinder Trump, only turning to support him when the primary votes came overwhelmingly in his favor. Somehow Trump was able to overcome an "unfair" fight.

 

[Elixir]

It was never a fair fight.

It was Bernie against Hillary AND the Democratic party. From day 1.

I am sick of the Bernie haters that gave us Trump by nominating an incredibly flawed candidate.

And what did Bernie contribute to the Democratic Party over the last 30 years? Are you trying to make the absurd claim that his contributions (by shunning them and running as a life long independent) are equal to Hillary's?

Furthermore, there is clear evidence that the Republician Party tried to hinder Trump, only turning to support him when the primary votes came overwhelmingly in his favor. Somehow Trump was able to overcome an "unfair" fight.

In fairness, Bernie was appealing to thinking individuals, while Trump was courting the 'tards.