It's officially 1984

[Loren Pechtel]

https://www.politico.com/live-updates/2024/05/28/congress/trump-endorses-goods-opponent-00160106

Trump: Good is bad.

(Yeah, he's referring to a candidate by that name. At least in theory.)

 

[SLD]

We are heading for extremely hard times. Trump will unleash violence come November, regardless of whether he wins or loses. We use to Pooh-Pooh the idea we could be headed towards a real civil war, but it looks increasingly inevitable.

 

[Ford]

We are heading for extremely hard times. Trump will unleash violence come November, regardless of whether he wins or loses. We use to Pooh-Pooh the idea we could be headed towards a real civil war, but it looks increasingly inevitable.

There's a couple of things that give me a tiny bit of hope. One thing is that unlike before, he is not ensconced in the White House and able to pull the levers of power in order to attempt to overthrow the election results should they not go his way. It is hard to understate just how close he came to accomplishing that in January of 2021. From the night the election was decided, right up until January 20th, the Oval Office was "ground zero" for attempts to halt his impending ouster from the Presidency. They came alarmingly close on January 6th, and not because of his idiot followers getting violent. There was a chance that the electoral count could have been rejected and the decision thrown to the House.

That will not happen this time, because to quote a famous line from Lord of the Rings, "you have no power here!"

The other thing is that since a whole lot of those who stormed the Capitol were tracked down, arrested, tried, and thrown in prison, his followers have been...less than open to the idea of storming whatever building they feel Trump is being "wronged" in. Dude has been arraigned in multiple courthouses, and has spent several weeks stewing in one of them, yet not only has there not been the sort of violence we saw that day in 2021, but the "crowds of adoring followers" have not exactly turned out in force for their Dear Leader.

Will some of them get violent if he loses? Of that I have no doubt. Will they attempt to overthrow the government? It'll be instructive to see the response if he's convicted in the coming days.

 

[ZiprHead]

We are heading for extremely hard times. Trump will unleash violence come November, regardless of whether he wins or loses. We use to Pooh-Pooh the idea we could be headed towards a real civil war, but it looks increasingly inevitable.

Frankly the best will be some random terrorist attacks. A full on civil war is a pipe dream.

 

[SLD]

We are heading for extremely hard times. Trump will unleash violence come November, regardless of whether he wins or loses. We use to Pooh-Pooh the idea we could be headed towards a real civil war, but it looks increasingly inevitable.

There's a couple of things that give me a tiny bit of hope. One thing is that unlike before, he is not ensconced in the White House and able to pull the levers of power in order to attempt to overthrow the election results should they not go his way. It is hard to understate just how close he came to accomplishing that in January of 2021. From the night the election was decided, right up until January 20th, the Oval Office was "ground zero" for attempts to halt his impending ouster from the Presidency. They came alarmingly close on January 6th, and not because of his idiot followers getting violent. There was a chance that the electoral count could have been rejected and the decision thrown to the House.

That will not happen this time, because to quote a famous line from Lord of the Rings, "you have no power here!"

The other thing is that since a whole lot of those who stormed the Capitol were tracked down, arrested, tried, and thrown in prison, his followers have been...less than open to the idea of storming whatever building they feel Trump is being "wronged" in. Dude has been arraigned in multiple courthouses, and has spent several weeks stewing in one of them, yet not only has there not been the sort of violence we saw that day in 2021, but the "crowds of adoring followers" have not exactly turned out in force for their Dear Leader.

Will some of them get violent if he loses? Of that I have no doubt. Will they attempt to overthrow the government? It'll be instructive to see the response if he's convicted in the coming days.

They don’t need the White House. They need the state houses. And in many areas they do. Wisconsin, Georgia and Arizona to name a few.

 

[ZiprHead]

We are heading for extremely hard times. Trump will unleash violence come November, regardless of whether he wins or loses. We use to Pooh-Pooh the idea we could be headed towards a real civil war, but it looks increasingly inevitable.

There's a couple of things that give me a tiny bit of hope. One thing is that unlike before, he is not ensconced in the White House and able to pull the levers of power in order to attempt to overthrow the election results should they not go his way. It is hard to understate just how close he came to accomplishing that in January of 2021. From the night the election was decided, right up until January 20th, the Oval Office was "ground zero" for attempts to halt his impending ouster from the Presidency. They came alarmingly close on January 6th, and not because of his idiot followers getting violent. There was a chance that the electoral count could have been rejected and the decision thrown to the House.

That will not happen this time, because to quote a famous line from Lord of the Rings, "you have no power here!"

The other thing is that since a whole lot of those who stormed the Capitol were tracked down, arrested, tried, and thrown in prison, his followers have been...less than open to the idea of storming whatever building they feel Trump is being "wronged" in. Dude has been arraigned in multiple courthouses, and has spent several weeks stewing in one of them, yet not only has there not been the sort of violence we saw that day in 2021, but the "crowds of adoring followers" have not exactly turned out in force for their Dear Leader.

Will some of them get violent if he loses? Of that I have no doubt. Will they attempt to overthrow the government? It'll be instructive to see the response if he's convicted in the coming days.

They don’t need the White House. They need the state houses. And in many areas they do. Wisconsin, Georgia and Arizona to name a few.

They are not going to take them with violence.

Frankly, I think the claims of huge violence and civil war are wildly overblown. At best, there will be a few terrorism attacks by the gravy militias and others, like the idiot who attacked Pelosi's husband.

 

[Elixir]

There's a couple of things that give me a tiny bit of hope. One thing is that unlike before, he is not ensconced in the White House and able to pull the levers of power in order to attempt to overthrow the election results should they not go his way. It is hard to understate just how close he came to accomplishing that in January of 2021. From the night the election was decided, right up until January 20th, the Oval Office was "ground zero" for attempts to halt his impending ouster from the Presidency. They came alarmingly close on January 6th, and not because of his idiot followers getting violent. There was a chance that the electoral count could have been rejected and the decision thrown to the House.

I fear that he will have an easier time of overturning a free and fair election this time. His congressional enablers are already on board. Contingency plans for installing Trump regardless of the electoral results are already underway, and will be coordinated this time, unlike 2020.

That will not happen this time, because to quote a famous line from Lord of the Rings, "you have no power here!"

I'm not so sure about that. (see above)

The other thing is that since a whole lot of those who stormed the Capitol were tracked down, arrested, tried, and thrown in prison, his followers have been...less than open to the idea of storming whatever building they feel Trump is being "wronged" in. Dude has been arraigned in multiple courthouses, and has spent several weeks stewing in one of them, yet not only has there not been the sort of violence we saw that day in 2021, but the "crowds of adoring followers" have not exactly turned out in force for their Dear Leader.

Right... they're not likely to go down the road of creating a TV spectacle again if they can avoid it. The insurrection will be an indoor affair this time, happening behind mostly closed doors.

Will some of them get violent if he loses? Of that I have no doubt. Will they attempt to overthrow the government? It'll be instructive to see the response if he's convicted in the coming days.

A conviction will mean little to the trumpsucking electorate, and even less to the congressional enablers who will be trying to get Trump installed regardless of the electoral outcome.

 

[Politesse]

The other thing is that since a whole lot of those who stormed the Capitol were tracked down, arrested, tried, and thrown in prison, his followers have been...less than open to the idea of storming whatever building they feel Trump is being "wronged" in. Dude has been arraigned in multiple courthouses, and has spent several weeks stewing in one of them, yet not only has there not been the sort of violence we saw that day in 2021, but the "crowds of adoring followers" have not exactly turned out in force for their Dear Leader.

If we re-elect him, though, he'll just let all those people out of Azkaban again, freeing them to act and emboldening their fellows. And they're probably better fighters now, prison will do that to you.

 

[SLD]

We are heading for extremely hard times. Trump will unleash violence come November, regardless of whether he wins or loses. We use to Pooh-Pooh the idea we could be headed towards a real civil war, but it looks increasingly inevitable.

There's a couple of things that give me a tiny bit of hope. One thing is that unlike before, he is not ensconced in the White House and able to pull the levers of power in order to attempt to overthrow the election results should they not go his way. It is hard to understate just how close he came to accomplishing that in January of 2021. From the night the election was decided, right up until January 20th, the Oval Office was "ground zero" for attempts to halt his impending ouster from the Presidency. They came alarmingly close on January 6th, and not because of his idiot followers getting violent. There was a chance that the electoral count could have been rejected and the decision thrown to the House.

That will not happen this time, because to quote a famous line from Lord of the Rings, "you have no power here!"

The other thing is that since a whole lot of those who stormed the Capitol were tracked down, arrested, tried, and thrown in prison, his followers have been...less than open to the idea of storming whatever building they feel Trump is being "wronged" in. Dude has been arraigned in multiple courthouses, and has spent several weeks stewing in one of them, yet not only has there not been the sort of violence we saw that day in 2021, but the "crowds of adoring followers" have not exactly turned out in force for their Dear Leader.

Will some of them get violent if he loses? Of that I have no doubt. Will they attempt to overthrow the government? It'll be instructive to see the response if he's convicted in the coming days.

They don’t need the White House. They need the state houses. And in many areas they do. Wisconsin, Georgia and Arizona to name a few.

They are not going to take them with violence.

Frankly, I think the claims of huge violence and civil war are wildly overblown. At best, there will be a few terrorism attacks by the gravy militias and others, like the idiot who attacked Pelosi's husband.

They own the state houses is my point. It’s only gotten worse since 2024. They’ve doubled down on this bullshit stop the steal mentality and will find ways to overturn electoral results that they weren’t prepared for in 2020.

The violence though will come clearly after the election. I wouldn’t be naive about a full blown war. I hope you’re right but even if it is just some gravy seals the damage to the political discourse in this country will be incalculable - especially if fuck face Von clownstick pardons them, which he undoubtedly will. He will turn us into a version of Putin’s Russia. Unless we do fight him - and I mean quite literally.

 

[Elixir]

They’ve doubled down on this bullshit stop the steal mentality and will find ways to overturn electoral results that they weren’t prepared for in 2020.

^THAT
If, after Election Day, it looks like Biden won, there will be a whole machine ready to go, to relegate it back to the States.

 

[AdamWho]

1984 is completely different from Civil War.

When people evoke 'Civil War', I have to ask Where? People are not wearing identifying uniforms or living in specific areas. I don't know what my neighbors believe and they aren't advertising their beliefs.

1984 is about absolute control (which we don't have) and an individual "waking up" to this control.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

LP's reference for 1984 was the "Good is bad". Trump doesn't like Rep. Bob Good anymore, so it is a play on words of "Good is bad" but having the 1984esque feel of words no longer mattering, kind of like how facts and truth have been devalued by the alt-right.

 

[SLD]

"Let me handle the Justice System & be judge & Prosecutor, Immediate trial & Justifiable Punishments handed out, Funeral Directors get ready for a lot of Democratic Socialist Elites coming your way.”

Just another post on X that’s not being removed by Musky.

 

[bilby]

When people evoke 'Civil War', I have to ask Where? People are not wearing identifying uniforms or living in specific areas. I don't know what my neighbors believe and they aren't advertising their beliefs.

Most civil wars look just like that. The (first?) American Civil War was very unusual, and an outlier amongst civil wars generally, in that there was a fairly clear geographical delineation between the opposing forces, and there was even a difference in the military uniforms of the two sides.

Most civil wars don't look like that at all. The combatants on both sides either wear the uniform of the pre-war military, or civillian non-unifiom clothing, with no way to tell at a glance which side a given soldier is on; And there are people from the same street, or even the same household, fighting on opposite sides.

As a result, most people keep their heads down; Advertising your allegiance is asking for trouble.

And in most civil wars, most citizens don't take sides at all, unless forced to do so.

 

[Politesse]

Most civil wars don't look like that at all. The combatants on both sides either wear the uniform of the pre-war military, or civillian non-unifiom clothing, with no way to tell at a glance which side a given soldier is on; And there are people from the same street, or even the same household, fighting on opposite sides.

There was plenty of this in the American Civil War, too; we've just turned the whole thing into a pageant in historical memory. In real life, plenty of people ended up "trapped" on the wrong side of the battle lines as they were drawn. In particular, Arkansas, the Kentucky/Tennessee mountains, and the Virginias were rife with vicious neighbor-on-neighbor violence and entire guerilla movements sometimes funded but not officially supported by either government. Read about the "Night of Burning Bridges" some time, it's a fascinating and illustrative incident, and as it happened on my birthday and some of my kin were involved, it always had that bit of special interest for me as a student.

And that's just people who clearly picked a side and stuck with it. A lot of draft dodgers ended up fighting for the other side, an ever increasing number as the war dragged on, as little mercy was extended to the conscientious objector at the time. You also had criminal gangs springing up only loosely associated with Union or Confederacy, not unlike the situation we see in Haiti today. Indeed, I think if civil violence intensifies here, American cities without a strong liberal or fascist affiliation are likely to start looking like Port-au-Prince does now, a differrent and dangerous situation in every neighborhood, with most people trying to just duck out of the way of the gangs and survive.

 

[SLD]

When people evoke 'Civil War', I have to ask Where? People are not wearing identifying uniforms or living in specific areas. I don't know what my neighbors believe and they aren't advertising their beliefs.

Most civil wars look just like that. The (first?) American Civil War was very unusual, and an outlier amongst civil wars generally, in that there was a fairly clear geographical delineation between the opposing forces, and there was even a difference in the military uniforms of the two sides.

Most civil wars don't look like that at all. The combatants on both sides either wear the uniform of the pre-war military, or civillian non-unifiom clothing, with no way to tell at a glance which side a given soldier is on; And there are people from the same street, or even the same household, fighting on opposite sides.

As a result, most people keep their heads down; Advertising your allegiance is asking for trouble.

And in most civil wars, most citizens don't take sides at all, unless forced to do so.

Good point. Certainly The English Civil War was not geographic in nature, nor the War of the Roses. The French Civil War was a bit geographical as the south was more Catholic than the north but it wasn’t a geographic war exactly. The American Revolution was a sort of civil war that wasn’t really geographic.

Our Civil War had a geographic component to be sure, but a huge number of southerners stayed loyal to the Union. West Virginia duh.

As for today, a civil war would only be partially geographical. It probably would not be triggered by states seceding, but by unrest generally as a result of Biden’s election and Republican efforts to overturn it. Republican governors calling out the National guard against citizens who rise up when they’re electoral votes are nullified. Or Republicans rioting at Biden’s election. Perhaps the military fractures, with numerous members taking sides.

In truth I don’t know how it will start. Maybe I should watch that new movie but I don’t want to pay $24 right now for it.

 

[Politesse]

When people evoke 'Civil War', I have to ask Where? People are not wearing identifying uniforms or living in specific areas. I don't know what my neighbors believe and they aren't advertising their beliefs.

Most civil wars look just like that. The (first?) American Civil War was very unusual, and an outlier amongst civil wars generally, in that there was a fairly clear geographical delineation between the opposing forces, and there was even a difference in the military uniforms of the two sides.

Most civil wars don't look like that at all. The combatants on both sides either wear the uniform of the pre-war military, or civillian non-unifiom clothing, with no way to tell at a glance which side a given soldier is on; And there are people from the same street, or even the same household, fighting on opposite sides.

As a result, most people keep their heads down; Advertising your allegiance is asking for trouble.

And in most civil wars, most citizens don't take sides at all, unless forced to do so.

Good point. Certainly The English Civil War was not geographic in nature, nor the War of the Roses. The French Civil War was a bit geographical as the south was more Catholic than the north but it wasn’t a geographic war exactly. The American Revolution was a sort of civil war that wasn’t really geographic.

Our Civil War had a geographic component to be sure, but a huge number of southerners stayed loyal to the Union. West Virginia duh.

As for today, a civil war would only be partially geographical. It probably would not be triggered by states seceding, but by unrest generally as a result of Biden’s election and Republican efforts to overturn it. Republican governors calling out the National guard against citizens who rise up when they’re electoral votes are nullified. Or Republicans rioting at Biden’s election. Perhaps the military fractures, with numerous members taking sides.

In truth I don’t know how it will start. Maybe I should watch that new movie but I don’t want to pay $24 right now for it.

That movie was... weirdly uninterested in politics, for a movie about a civil war. It draws more from tropes of zombie movies, if anything.

The only thing they do say is that California and Texas have joined together to form a breakaway faction together in opposition to a third-term president, which seemed completely ludicrous until I thought about it for a while and realized that although Democrats sometimes fantasize about "turning Texas blue", actually doing so in the current climate might well spark incidents of horrific violence. The Republicans would, at that point, have nothing at all left to gain from a free and fair election...

 

[BH]

I haven't seen the movie but heard Texas and California win. Go Texas!

 

[SLD]

When people evoke 'Civil War', I have to ask Where? People are not wearing identifying uniforms or living in specific areas. I don't know what my neighbors believe and they aren't advertising their beliefs.

Most civil wars look just like that. The (first?) American Civil War was very unusual, and an outlier amongst civil wars generally, in that there was a fairly clear geographical delineation between the opposing forces, and there was even a difference in the military uniforms of the two sides.

Most civil wars don't look like that at all. The combatants on both sides either wear the uniform of the pre-war military, or civillian non-unifiom clothing, with no way to tell at a glance which side a given soldier is on; And there are people from the same street, or even the same household, fighting on opposite sides.

As a result, most people keep their heads down; Advertising your allegiance is asking for trouble.

And in most civil wars, most citizens don't take sides at all, unless forced to do so.

Good point. Certainly The English Civil War was not geographic in nature, nor the War of the Roses. The French Civil War was a bit geographical as the south was more Catholic than the north but it wasn’t a geographic war exactly. The American Revolution was a sort of civil war that wasn’t really geographic.

Our Civil War had a geographic component to be sure, but a huge number of southerners stayed loyal to the Union. West Virginia duh.

As for today, a civil war would only be partially geographical. It probably would not be triggered by states seceding, but by unrest generally as a result of Biden’s election and Republican efforts to overturn it. Republican governors calling out the National guard against citizens who rise up when they’re electoral votes are nullified. Or Republicans rioting at Biden’s election. Perhaps the military fractures, with numerous members taking sides.

In truth I don’t know how it will start. Maybe I should watch that new movie but I don’t want to pay $24 right now for it.

That movie was... weirdly uninterested in politics, for a movie about a civil war. It draws more from tropes of zombie movies, if anything.

The only thing they do say is that California and Texas have joined together to form a breakaway faction together in opposition to a third-term president, which seemed completely ludicrous until I thought about it for a while and realized that although Democrats sometimes fantasize about "turning Texas blue", actually doing so in the current climate might well spark incidents of horrific violence. The Republicans would, at that point, have nothing at all left to gain from a free and fair election...

Darn. Was kinda looking forward to seeing it eventually.

One series on HBO though may be more realistic as to how it might happen here - sort of. The Plot Against America is on HBO now. It’s a frightening alternative reality where Lindbergh wins the presidency in 1940. But it’s really about us today and how we are heading towards a very scary future where a president openly refuses to condemn violence against his enemies and violence does run rampant.

 

[Politesse]

I haven't seen the movie but heard Texas and California win. Go Texas!

It's very... Libya, toward the end. I want to cheer on my state, but mowing the whole country down to put a bullet in one man's head is neither as satisfying or as lasting a solution to a political disagreement as Hollywood would have you believe.