Ja Du is Filipino

[Elixir]

I hereby declare myself as a trans old money, upper class wasp.

Ya gotta do better than that, you poseur. Anyone can see by your avatar that you're a fucking rabbit!

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Why do you say that?

Is it because the more unusual and extreme the transition the less seriously you are able to take it?

Is there something truly fundamentally different in these cases than in the transgender cases? If so, what is it?

The difference is that we are fishing in the fringes here where some people just keep trying to think well outside the box and seemingly and quite deliberately want to follow non-conventional paths.

Says who? That man who thinks he is a six year old girl may think that deep down as part of his core identity. Who are we to say otherwise? If we brand that as a mental disorder, why can't we likewise brand gender disporia (sp?) the same way? And if the trans folks can demand we cater to their deeply held beliefs, why can't everybody else who has deeply held beliefs. Seems like a legit slippery slope to me and it seems difficult here to keep consistent and not hypocritical.

However, gender identity is starting to be understood as being far from a black and white issue. Meanwhile, the identity of a person's nationality, is solidly black and white.

Nationality is. That's a legal designation/status. But what about race and ethnicity? Is that man above Asian?

*sigh*

 

[laughing dog]

In my opinion, this thread is a prime contender for a finalist in the "Whole Lotta Stupid" category.

 

[Arctish]

Why do you say that?

Is it because the more unusual and extreme the transition the less seriously you are able to take it?

Is there something truly fundamentally different in these cases than in the transgender cases? If so, what is it?

Racism.

So, like, it's only this guy's White Privilege that lets him be a Filipino?

Not at all. If anything, Ja Du is giving up privilege. She is leaving the ranks of the white males for what many white males think is an inferior status: a female of a lesser, browner culture. Hence, the contempt.

Is there a gene for Filipino? If you have the gene, does it make you Filipino regardless of any other factors? If you lack it, does that mean you're not Filipino regardless of your personal and family history? Or is being Filipino a way of life and a choice, much like being an American?

I'll just go ahead and Godwin this thread: were the Nazis right to label people Jews if they had a Jewish grandparent or great-grandparent and therefore carried 'Jewish' genes, regardless of their faith and personal identity? Can people be Jews regardless of their genome?

Where do you draw the line, dismal?

 

[sharon45]

I'll just go ahead and Godwin this thread: were the Nazis right to label people Jews if they had a Jewish grandparent or great-grandparent and therefore carried 'Jewish' genes, regardless of their faith and personal identity? Can people be Jews regardless of their genome?

People are recognized as Jewish if at least their mother is Jewish, while many also count the father too, and it doesn't matter if they become Christian or another religion.

 

[Arctish]

I'll just go ahead and Godwin this thread: were the Nazis right to label people Jews if they had a Jewish grandparent or great-grandparent and therefore carried 'Jewish' genes, regardless of their faith and personal identity? Can people be Jews regardless of their genome?

People are recognized as Jewish if at least their mother is Jewish, while many also count the father too, and it doesn't matter if they become Christian or another religion.

So you're saying being a Jew is a matter of ancestry. You're a Jew if one of your parents was a Jew, regardless of your religious beliefs or personal identity.

Genome based identity.

Can someone be a Jew if they weren't 'born that way'?

 

[repoman]

My pronouns are pinay and babae.

 

[sharon45]

I'll just go ahead and Godwin this thread: were the Nazis right to label people Jews if they had a Jewish grandparent or great-grandparent and therefore carried 'Jewish' genes, regardless of their faith and personal identity? Can people be Jews regardless of their genome?

People are recognized as Jewish if at least their mother is Jewish, while many also count the father too, and it doesn't matter if they become Christian or another religion.

So you're saying being a Jew is a matter of ancestry. You're a Jew if one of your parents was a Jew, regardless of your religious beliefs or personal identity.

Genome based identity.

Can someone be a Jew if they weren't 'born that way'?

Yes, of course, they can convert to Judaism, even though some in the community may not agree, one is then officially counted and accepted as a Jew.

 

[Arctish]

People are recognized as Jewish if at least their mother is Jewish, while many also count the father too, and it doesn't matter if they become Christian or another religion.

So you're saying being a Jew is a matter of ancestry. You're a Jew if one of your parents was a Jew, regardless of your religious beliefs or personal identity.

Genome based identity.

Can someone be a Jew if they weren't 'born that way'?

Yes, of course, they can convert to Judaism, even though some in the community may not agree, one is then officially counted and accepted as a Jew.

So it's not genome based. A person can choose their identity.

Ja Du can choose to be Filipino, and it doesn't matter if she has a 'Filipino gene'.

 

[Trausti]

Troll thread

Why do you say that?

Is it because the more unusual and extreme the transition the less seriously you are able to take it?

Is there something truly fundamentally different in these cases than in the transgender cases? If so, what is it?

The difference is that we are fishing in the fringes here where some people just keep trying to think well outside the box and seemingly and quite deliberately want to follow non-conventional paths. Yes, there are fruitcakes that allow themselves to think they can just label themselves as whatever. And yes, that is ridiculous.

However, gender identity is starting to be understood as being far from a black and white issue. Meanwhile, the identity of a person's nationality, is solidly black and white.

"Fishing in the fringes"? Not too long ago men who said they were women were the "fringes."

You just need to cast off your transphobia. You're on the wrong side of history. Get Woke.™ Ja Du is Filipino. Rachel Dolezal is Black. And also Shaun King. It's 2017, FFS.

 

[Juma]

Troll thread

Why do you say that?

Is it because the more unusual and extreme the transition the less seriously you are able to take it?

Is there something truly fundamentally different in these cases than in the transgender cases? If so, what is it?

Yes there is. Sexuality.

 

[dismal]

[Where do you draw the line, dismal?

As far as I am concerned you should be free to declare yourself to be a ham sandwich if you want.

And others should be free to ignore your desire to be called a ham sandwich if they want.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

[Where do you draw the line, dismal?

As far as I am concerned you should be free to declare yourself to be a ham sandwich if you want.

And others should be free to ignore your desire to be called a ham sandwich if they want.

Oh so we are in agreement then? Trans people can call themselves whatever they want, and we are under no obligation to call them what they want us to. Now that makes sense. Too bad the lobbying and new laws aren't going that way.

 

[Arctish]

[Where do you draw the line, dismal?

As far as I am concerned you should be free to declare yourself to be a ham sandwich if you want.

And others should be free to ignore your desire to be called a ham sandwich if they want.

I didn't ask about the freedom to declare one's self something, or the freedom to refuse to comply with another person's wishes.

I asked where you draw the line between people who are Jews and people who are not Jews.

Were the Nazis right to label people Jews if they had a Jewish grandparent or great-grandparent and therefore carried 'Jewish' genes, regardless of their faith and personal identity? Can people be Jews regardless of their genome?

 

[Trausti]

Were the Nazis right . . .

It's like you're setting dismal up.

 

[J842P]

[Where do you draw the line, dismal?

As far as I am concerned you should be free to declare yourself to be a ham sandwich if you want.

And others should be free to ignore your desire to be called a ham sandwich if they want.

I didn't ask about the freedom to declare one's self something, or the freedom to refuse to comply with another person's wishes.

I asked where you draw the line between people who are Jews and people who are not Jews.

Were the Nazis right to label people Jews if they had a Jewish grandparent or great-grandparent and therefore carried 'Jewish' genes, regardless of their faith and personal identity? Can people be Jews regardless of their genome?

The category "Jewish" is a messy one, because it can be both an ethnicity and a religion. Indeed, the distinction is made between mere ethnic Jewish people, who may be not religious at all, and religious Jews. Anyone can become a religious Jew, but you can only be born an ethnic Jew. It gets messier still because the Jewish religion, at least in it's roots, is tied to the Jewish ethnicity. This is why you don't see religious Jews preaching and proselytizing trying to gain converts (a particularly great quality in a religion, IMO) and conservative Jews will stigmatizes marrying outside of the Jewish ethnicity.

 

[Arctish]

Were the Nazis right . . .

It's like you're setting dismal up.

I call it cutting through the baloney by using a clear, obvious, and well understood example. I don't have to explain Jewishness or Nazi ideas about race before the posters here can see what I'm getting at.

Is identity genome based, or can it be completely unrelated to ancestry? The answer has real-world consequences. And it figures into why some people are mocking Ja Du for considering herself to be Filipino while others aren't.

 

[dismal]

[Where do you draw the line, dismal?

As far as I am concerned you should be free to declare yourself to be a ham sandwich if you want.

And others should be free to ignore your desire to be called a ham sandwich if they want.

I didn't ask about the freedom to declare one's self something, or the freedom to refuse to comply with another person's wishes.

I asked where you draw the line between people who are Jews and people who are not Jews.

I don't have any particular need to identify who is and isn't a Jew.

I imagine if you were establishing a scholarship for jews only or a concentration camp for jews only you'd have to come up with some sort of definition, but I have no need.

 

[Arctish]

As far as I am concerned you should be free to declare yourself to be a ham sandwich if you want.

And others should be free to ignore your desire to be called a ham sandwich if they want.

I didn't ask about the freedom to declare one's self something, or the freedom to refuse to comply with another person's wishes.

I asked where you draw the line between people who are Jews and people who are not Jews.

I don't have any particular need to identify who is and isn't a Jew.

I imagine if you were establishing a scholarship for jews only or a concentration camp for jews only you'd have to come up with some sort of definition, but I have no need.

But if you did feel the need to identify who is or isn't a Jew, for whatever reason, how would you go about it?

Do you think identity is genome based, or can it be completely unrelated to ancestry?

 

[dismal]

I didn't ask about the freedom to declare one's self something, or the freedom to refuse to comply with another person's wishes.

I asked where you draw the line between people who are Jews and people who are not Jews.

I don't have any particular need to identify who is and isn't a Jew.

I imagine if you were establishing a scholarship for jews only or a concentration camp for jews only you'd have to come up with some sort of definition, but I have no need.

But if you did feel the need to identify who is or isn't a Jew, for whatever reason, how would you go about it?

Do you think identity is genome based, or can it be completely unrelated to ancestry?

I don't really know enough about the issue to have a strong opinion on who is and isn't a Jew.

More importantly, to me it doesn't matter.

Let's say you want to endow a scholarship for which only Jews may apply.

I support your right to define "Jew" however you want. You can say "This scholarship is for Jews only, and I define a Jew as anyone over 6'2" and weighing less than 180 lbs". Your money, your choice.