Ja Du is Filipino

[Arctish]

Okay.

You don't have an answer, or you don't want to share it.

This thread was an opportunity to discuss identity and the concept of choice vs. genetic determinism. It could have been about what it means to be transgender, or transsexual, or transracial. We could have discussed the significance of the Y chromosome in a person with the XXY chromosomal pattern. We could have discussed cultural identity, and how ethnicity is decided in a population descended from people from all parts of the world. We could have discussed how legal rights based on ancestry conflict with or reinforce notions of national/cultural identity.

But, alas. All we've got are a few posters using this opportunity to mock someone for being trans-something.

There's a new thread that asks, Should trans "women" be allowed in women's shelters?. Maybe that one will spark a deeper discussion than this one did.

 

[sharon45]

Hey, you are certainly free to talk about those issues also without trying to debase others who have already participated in this thread.

 

[Arctish]

Hey, you are certainly free to talk about those issues also without trying to debase others who have already participated in this thread.

Or, I could point out that a few posters are using this opportunity to mock someone for being trans-something, and nothing more.

This is the Politics forum. Threads here are supposed to have a bit more politics related content than "Look-ey here, there's some white guy who wants to be Filipino, har har har".

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

This thread should be productive but it never will be. It reverses the polarity for many people.

Those who normally would be on the side of social justice and recognizing anyone as what they declare balk at this, because it goes too far for many, for various reasons. The concept of "transracial" is having a hard time gaining acceptance. Plus, assuming it did gain acceptance, why would someone voluntarily move from a position of greater privilege to a position of lesser privilege? So Ja Du, Rachel Dolezal, and Shawn King are all going to what would be considered a position of less privilege, unless of course they are moving in progressive circles where less privilege results in greater power.

Those who normally ignore identity politics are arguing in favor of this guys chosen identity. For conservatives it is to force progressives into an uncomfortable position, since this guy's declaration is the logical conclusion of identity politics unless the consideration of identity is to become considered immutable. Since progressives are such staunch defenders of transgender, what exactly is their argument against transracial?

Now some decided to escape this trap by deliberately and dishonestly equivocating between Filipino as a race and Filipino as a nationality. That actually was pretty stupid.

Then there are the few of us who desire to neither dictate to nor be dictated to. Our position is "fine, call yourself whatever you want" but we also enjoy seeing the defenders of identity politics put into this awkward position.

Because this position is so awkward for those who identify with identity politics, it will be considered a troll thread from the start.

 

[thebeave]

[YOUTUBE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3CYC1L1ckt0[/YOUTUBE]

So, to summarize from the looney left, you can be whatever it is you choose to be without regard to reality, and its really super great cause its 2017.

Except don't culturally appropriate while doing it. That's just wrong.

 

[Arctish]

[YOUTUBE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3CYC1L1ckt0[/YOUTUBE]

Mr. Carlson isn't too clear on the difference between one's racial or cultural identity and one's job.

Does he think all white males are Fox News hosts?

 

[laughing dog]

[YOUTUBE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3CYC1L1ckt0[/YOUTUBE]

Mr. Carlson isn't too clear on the difference between one's racial or cultural identity and one's job.

Does he think all white males are Fox News hosts?

You assume Mr. Carlson thinks.

 

[RavenSky]

I hereby declare myself as a trans old money, upper class wasp.

Ya gotta do better than that, you poseur. Anyone can see by your avatar that you're a fucking rabbit!

rabbit?

I've always thought it was a hamster

 

[thebeave]

[YOUTUBE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3CYC1L1ckt0[/YOUTUBE]

Mr. Carlson isn't too clear on the difference between one's racial or cultural identity and one's job.

Does he think all white males are Fox News hosts?

You assume Mr. Carlson thinks.

So, I take it you side with the woman's POV, not Tucker's?

 

[laughing dog]

Mr. Carlson isn't too clear on the difference between one's racial or cultural identity and one's job.

Does he think all white males are Fox News hosts?

You assume Mr. Carlson thinks.

So, I take it you side with the woman's POV, not Tucker's?

In the real world, there is usually a range of views - not just two. Invariably, when I listen to Mr. Carlson's opine, I find his views to be either ill-considered or just incredibly stupid. In this case, he seems incapable of delineating between one's self-perceived identity, one's profession, one's legal identity, and the difference between human decency/polite consideration in the treatment of others and legally mandated treatment.

 

[Cheerful Charlie]

I hereby declare myself as a trans old money, upper class wasp.

Ya gotta do better than that, you poseur. Anyone can see by your avatar that you're a fucking rabbit!

rabbit?

I've always thought it was a hamster

It is actually a mouse playing a guitar. My avatar is actually the guitar, not the mouse.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

This thread should be productive but it never will be. It reverses the polarity for many people.

Those who normally would be on the side of social justice and recognizing anyone as what they declare balk at this, because it goes too far for many, for various reasons. The concept of "transracial" is having a hard time gaining acceptance. Plus, assuming it did gain acceptance, why would someone voluntarily move from a position of greater privilege to a position of lesser privilege? So Ja Du, Rachel Dolezal, and Shawn King are all going to what would be considered a position of less privilege, unless of course they are moving in progressive circles where less privilege results in greater power.

Those who normally ignore identity politics are arguing in favor of this guys chosen identity. For conservatives it is to force progressives into an uncomfortable position, since this guy's declaration is the logical conclusion of identity politics unless the consideration of identity is to become considered immutable. Since progressives are such staunch defenders of transgender, what exactly is their argument against transracial?

Now some decided to escape this trap by deliberately and dishonestly equivocating between Filipino as a race and Filipino as a nationality. That actually was pretty stupid.

Then there are the few of us who desire to neither dictate to nor be dictated to. Our position is "fine, call yourself whatever you want" but we also enjoy seeing the defenders of identity politics put into this awkward position.

Because this position is so awkward for those who identify with identity politics, it will be considered a troll thread from the start.

This analysis hits the nail right on the head. I am curious to see what happens as the SJWs slide further down the slope and trans-racial becomes more and more accepted. It will wreak havoc on identity politics. That white male with all that privilege identifies as a black female. Now what?

Will this finally implode the SJW regressive left, so we those of us who are actually liberals can take the left back?

 

[Trausti]

 

[Juma]

This thread should be productive but it never will be. It reverses the polarity for many people.

Those who normally would be on the side of social justice and recognizing anyone as what they declare balk at this, because it goes too far for many, for various reasons. The concept of "transracial" is having a hard time gaining acceptance. Plus, assuming it did gain acceptance, why would someone voluntarily move from a position of greater privilege to a position of lesser privilege? So Ja Du, Rachel Dolezal, and Shawn King are all going to what would be considered a position of less privilege, unless of course they are moving in progressive circles where less privilege results in greater power.

Those who normally ignore identity politics are arguing in favor of this guys chosen identity. For conservatives it is to force progressives into an uncomfortable position, since this guy's declaration is the logical conclusion of identity politics unless the consideration of identity is to become considered immutable. Since progressives are such staunch defenders of transgender, what exactly is their argument against transracial?

Now some decided to escape this trap by deliberately and dishonestly equivocating between Filipino as a race and Filipino as a nationality. That actually was pretty stupid.

Then there are the few of us who desire to neither dictate to nor be dictated to. Our position is "fine, call yourself whatever you want" but we also enjoy seeing the defenders of identity politics put into this awkward position.

Because this position is so awkward for those who identify with identity politics, it will be considered a troll thread from the start.

This analysis hits the nail right on the head. I am curious to see what happens as the SJWs slide further down the slope and trans-racial becomes more and more accepted. It will wreak havoc on identity politics. That white male with all that privilege identifies as a black female. Now what?

Will this finally implode the SJW regressive left, so we those of us who are actually liberals can take the left back?

You two are really the eternal clueless...

Why do you start writing of a totally different subject?
Humans has built in, hardoded, features that makes your gender identity. There are no such features for race identity, because race is not a biological thing. It is s political/social thing.

 

[Juma]

And you obviously doeznt realize that this cartoon actuslly makes the oppsite point of what you think?
That before post structuralism, gender studies it was the opinion of the man standing on the neck that counted.

Actually: you are them man standing on the neck. (Tacking abou ”SJWs” and downtalking measures taken to mitigate discrimination)

 

[laughing dog]

Will this finally implode the SJW regressive left, so we those of us who are actually liberals can take the left back?

Wait a minute. Does that mean we have to accept your word that you are a liberal? Do we have to refer to as a liberal? Do we have to treat you as a liberal just because you say you are liberal? How do we know that you truly are liberal?

 

[Trausti]

And you obviously doeznt realize that this cartoon actuslly makes the oppsite point of what you think?
That before post structuralism, gender studies it was the opinion of the man standing on the neck that counted.

Actually: you are them man standing on the neck. (Tacking abou ”SJWs” and downtalking measures taken to mitigate discrimination)

The cartoon is about objective vs. subject reality. How did you miss that?

 

[Arctish]

And you obviously doeznt realize that this cartoon actuslly makes the oppsite point of what you think?
That before post structuralism, gender studies it was the opinion of the man standing on the neck that counted.

Actually: you are them man standing on the neck. (Tacking abou ”SJWs” and downtalking measures taken to mitigate discrimination)

The cartoon is about objective vs. subject reality. How did you miss that?

How does an ordinary person go about determining the objective reality of someone else's identity? We're not gods. We don't just lounge around in heaven observing 'things unseen' like they do.

Can a person be Filipino if they don't have Filipino genes? Can a person be female if they have the Y chromosome? Is identity strictly based on one's genetic code, or does it arise from something else?

 

[J842P]

Humans has built in, hardoded, features that makes your gender identity. There are no such features for race identity, because race is not a biological thing. It is s political/social thing.

Of course race is biological.

 

[J842P]

How does an ordinary person go about determining the objective reality of someone else's identity? We're not gods. We don't just lounge around in heaven observing 'things unseen' like they do.

Can a person be Filipino if they don't have Filipino genes? Can a person be female if they have a Y chromosome? Is identity strictly based on one's genetic code, or does it arise from something else?

Identity is a complex topic. One thing is for sure, though, that is that you alone don't get to decide your identity in most if not all cases. One of these cases is national/ethnic identity. I may claim to be Japanese, but that claim holds very little weight if no other Japanese person believes that. I choose Japanese identity as an example, because that is one that is particularly strict. Indeed, even people born and raised in Japan, who have a Japanese parent, are not considered Japanese if their other parent is not. They are considered hafu.

Whether someone is a male or a female is one of those things that one doesn't get to decide. Sex is a biological phenomenon that for the vast majority of cases in mammals falls into two clearly differentiated cases. For a minority of cases, this is not possible, and you say there is a third category of intersex, and there are many possible further sub-categorizations. And yes, this is due to genetics. In animals, at least, sex is fundamentally a function of your gametes. Large gametes are female. Small gametes are male. In mammals, there is chromosomal-based sex determination, where the heterogametic (two different chromosomes) sex is male, and the homogametic sex is female. In birds, this is reversed (male birds have two ZZ chromosomes).

In some species, sex-determination is external. Perhaps a well-known example is temperature-sensitive sex-determination, like in alligators and crocodiles. There are all manner of quirky ways in which this can happen, some quite interesting. In some species, dominant members of a group (usually means the largest) become female, and in others, a dominant member will become male. There are some species that can change sex back and forth during adulthood. There are hermaphroditic species, and this is very common in plants.