January 6 Hearings Live

[lpetrich]

In Rebuke to Trump, Supreme Court Allows Release of Jan. 6 Files - The New York Times - "The House committee investigating the riot received hundreds of pages of documents from the former president’s White House within hours of the ruling."

Great. Let's see if any of them have some documentation of what Trump was doing that day, as opposed to hearsay.

Parent page of the opinion document: Opinions Relating to Orders - 2021
The opinion document: 21A272 Trump v. Thompson (01/19/2022) - 21a272_9p6b.pdf
Only Clarence Thomas supported Trump's claims of executive privilege.

Trump vs. Thompson = Donald J. Trump, Former President of the United States v. Bennie G. Thompson, in his Official Capacity as Chairman of the United States House Select Committee to Investigate the January 6th Attack on the United States Capitol, et al.

 

[lpetrich]

Why might Clarence Thomas support Trump?

Wife of Justice Clarence Thomas signed off on letter saying Capitol attackers 'have done nothing wrong' - Raw Story - Celebrating 17 Years of Independent Journalism

Noting Trump Previews the GOP’s Future - Morning Shots
In "About that conservative 'mainstream'” linking to
Conservative Leaders: Remove Cheney and Kinzinger from House Republican Conference | Conservative Action Project

The actions of Reps. Cheney and Kinzinger on behalf of House Democrats have given supposedly bipartisan justification to an overtly partisan political persecution that brings disrespect to our country’s rule of law, legal harassment to private citizens who have done nothing wrong, and which demeans the standing of the House.

As duly elected representatives, Reps. Cheney and Kinzinger are free to serve in the House, but they should no longer do so with the privileges granted to members of the House Republican Conference. They should no longer be given access to the benefits of a conference they actively seek to undermine.

Many of the signers have been in conservative Republican politics for years, like

The Honorable Edwin Meese III
Attorney General
President Ronald Reagan (1985-1988)

 Edwin Meese
Edwin Meese - Wikiquote

U.S. News: You criticize the Miranda ruling, which gives suspects the right to have a lawyer present before police questioning. Shouldn't people, who may be innocent, have such protection?
Meese: Suspects who are innocent of a crime should. But the thing is, you don't have many suspects who are innocent of a crime. That's contradictory. If a person is innocent of a crime, then he is not a suspect.

 

[lpetrich]

Mark Joseph Stern on Twitter: "On the morning of Jan. 6, Ginni Thomas—wife of Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas—endorsed the protest demanding that Congress overturn the election, then sent her “LOVE” to the demonstrators, who violently overtook the Capitol several hours later. She has not posted since. (pix link)" / Twitter
(screenshots of her social-media postings about that event)

Mark Joseph Stern on Twitter: "For background, Ginni Thomas is a conservative lobbyist and avid Trump supporter who campaigned for him. She also routinely spreads fringe conspiracy theories on Facebook. She recently posted: “No one, and I mean no one, has done more to harm America than the Democrats.” (pix link)" / Twitter
(pix of her with some fellow Trumpies)

Mark Joseph Stern on Twitter: "Here, for instance, is a characteristic Ginni Thomas post. She has repeatedly (and falsely) warned that George Soros is funding a sweeping conspiracy against Donald Trump and the United States government." / Twitter
noting
Mark Joseph Stern on Twitter: "A post today from Ginni Thomas, wife of Justice Clarence Thomas, says “George Soros is training his family to carry on his evil legacy...” (pic link)" / Twitter
Seems like projection to me. Anyone involved in right-wing activism likely has some knowledge of the oligarchs who fund such activism, and they project that oligarch funding onto their villains.

Mark Joseph Stern on Twitter: "In July, Ginni Thomas shared this post from a Facebook group flagged for promoting anti-vax conspiracy theories, including the false claim that Bill Gates would use the COVID vaccine to kill people." / Twitter
noting
Mark Joseph Stern on Twitter: "Ginni Thomas, wife of Justice Clarence Thomas and Trump-appointed member of the Library of Congress Trust Fund Board, shared this deranged conspiracy theory about George Soros and “other far-left financiers” today. (pic link)" / Twitter

Mark Joseph Stern on Twitter: "Ginni Thomas also led a campaign to identify and oust federal employees whom she deemed disloyal to Trump. She met with the president at the White House to provide him with a list of names she compiled. (link)" / Twitter
noting
Among Those Pressing Trump to Weed Out Disloyalty: Clarence Thomas’s Wife - The New York Times - "A group led by Ginni Thomas has targeted officials in the administration, and lobbied for its own preferred choices. As the president’s distrust in those serving him has grown, so has its sway."
Seems rather Stalinist.

Mark Joseph Stern on Twitter: "Ginni Thomas is often treated like a joke because she continually spouts deranged conspiracy theories. But there's nothing funny about a sitting justice's spouse endorsing a protest meant to overturn an election—hours before it became an insurrection. (link)" / Twitter
noting
Ginni Thomas, wife of Clarence Thomas, endorsed the protest that became the Capitol riot.

Mark Joseph Stern on Twitter: "Wow: Ginni Thomas appears to have deactivated or deleted her Facebook page. Truly never thought I’d see the day. (link)" / Twitter
noting
Facebook Page for Clarence Thomas's Wife Ginni Thomas Disappears

 

[lpetrich]

Amee Vanderpool on Twitter: "Ginni Thomas, the wife of sitting Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas, needs to be subpoenaed to answer questions about her role in helping to fund and promote the Jan. 6 insurrection." / Twitter

BrooklynDad_Defiant! on Twitter: "Good morning and Happy Tuesday to everyone who agrees that Ginni Thomas, wife of Clarence, needs to be subpoenaed for the role she played on January 6th." / Twitter

Back to Raw Story:

Mrs. Thomas has a "long history of incendiary rhetoric, particularly online," CNN.com reported in a report about "rankled" former clerks of Judge Thomas.

It prompted progressives to ask the Jan. 6 Committee to call Thomas to answer questions about whether she helped fund any of the operations through her Republican organization Groundswell. Others said that Thomas should be recused from any cases that ultimately involve Jan. 6 as a result.

"Even worse, however, is the fact that no matter how far his wife takes her antics, Justice Thomas will likely not face any real repercussions for it," CNN noted in their expose of Mrs. Thomas. "Under federal law, justices must recuse themselves from cases in which their 'impartiality might reasonably be questioned,' or where their spouse has 'an interest that could be substantially affected by the outcome.' However, such recusals almost never happen on the Supreme Court. The reality is that while Congress can impeach justices for egregious conduct -- a step not taken since 1805 -- there is no real mechanism for enforcing ethical rules against them."

 

[lpetrich]

Jim Jordan shredded by CNN fact check over excuse for blowing off January 6 committee - Raw Story - Celebrating 17 Years of Independent Journalism
noting
Fact-checking Jim Jordan's letter to the Jan. 6 committee - CNNPolitics
Rebutting the jacketless Representative's claims.

Like his claim that he has "no relevant information that would assist the Select Committee."

But he was on the phone with Trump on that day, and Trump might have told him something relevant to the investigation.


Mike Lindell retains Alan Dershowitz to fight Capitol riot subpoena - Raw Story - Celebrating 17 Years of Independent Journalism

 

[Keith&Co.]

, legal harassment to private citizens who have done nothing wrong, ...

Um, okay, just ME, here, but, four years ago? If i'd heard someone say 'Then Trump supporters went to DC and smeared shit on the walls of teh capital' i'd have thought it was a metaphor.

 

[Elixir]

'I’d have thought it was a metaphor.

Don’t think so … iirc he was posting here that day.

 

[Keith&Co.]

'I’d have thought it was a metaphor.

Don’t think so … iirc he was posting here that day.

That took me a second.

 

[jab]

Asha Rangappa on Twitter: "THREAD. ..." / Twitter

THREAD. Since there’s so much [waves hands everywhere] crazy coming up all of a sudden, let me break down the theory of how the overturning of the election was supposed to go down:

STEP 1: John Eastman concocts a “legal blueprint” whereby VP Pence elides the requirements of the Electoral Vote Act based on 7 states submitting dual slates of electors, allowing Pence to either count the alternate slate or not count those states at all Eastman Memo

STEP 2: GOP operatives/officials in those 7 states in fact create a false slate of electors and submit them as official, so they can be used in the scenario above Trump allies' fake Electoral College certificates offer fresh insights about plot to overturn Biden's victory - CNNPolitics

STEP 3: DOJ, meanwhile, submits letters to each state, indicating (falsely) that they have reason to believe that there has been election fraud. This creates perception that results are actually in question, bolstering VP’s ability to discount their votes

***I should note here that, as with the quid-pro-quo with Ukraine, it wouldn’t have mattered if these states did not actually investigate voter fraud — the DOJ letters would have been enough to create *the appearance* that the outcome in these states was still in the air

STEP 4: The Big Lie is repeated in rallies and social media, saturating information space to rile up base and give momentum to “Stop the Steal” movement #StopTheSteal: Timeline of Social Media and Extremist Activities Leading to 1/6 Insurrection

STEP 5: Plan for all of these angry and agitated individuals to come to D.C. on January 6, the day that Eastman’s plan will be put into effect. The protesters are sent to march on the Capitol, to further put pressure on VP Pence and lawmakers, as stated in Oath Keeper indictment

STEP 6: Since mob attack is intended to keep up pressure on Pence/lawmakers, they must be able to remain in Capitol as long as possible. So: 6a) Purge top DOD and replace with loyalists; and 6b) delay LE/National Guard response as long as possible January 6: National Guard Delay Was Pentagon Officials' Choice, Memo Alleges - "Never Forget That Trump Purged the Pentagon Leadership Between the Election and January 6" - "And that the new leadership he installed seized direct control over deploying the National Guard that day. And that deployment was delayed for hours."

STEP 7: ??? I’m not sure what was supposed to happen at this point. Presumably, Pence would somehow declare Trump the winner, or if not, the Capitol would remain occupied until they found a way to make him do it. Seems like they planned to continue the siege

The point is that there are a lot of moving parts and evidence surfacing in a lot of different areas but they are all connected to one overarching goal: Keep Trump in power by subverting the counting of the electoral votes and preventing the transfer of power to Biden /END

(Step 6a: Pence and Pelosi are assassinated, giving the VP ship to a Republican.)
Step 7: the electoral count is thrown to the House, and/ or according to the crazier conspirators--step right up Ms. Powell--to the Supreme Court.

 

[jab]

surely Trump would lose in a landslide. That didn’t happen.

Yes, it did. He lost by more than 7 million votes and by an electoral margin that Trump himself called a landslide.
The fact that the playing field is tilted toward Republicans so that 43,000 votes could have flipped the electoral college despite a 7 million+ popular vote margin, is a testament to how heavily rigged the system is, not a measure of any enduring popularity of FFvC.

Considering he was the worst goddamn president ever and folks had four years to see the error of their ways, it should have been much worse. It should have been Hooverlike. In that it wasn't should have brought a moment of reflection. For me it was just as much a telling sign of the gross political ignorance of the populace as Sandy Hook was a telling moment of the politicians who run this country.
No one should be surprised, fascinated, or taken aback by anything these people might do or be convinced to do going forward. That is the baseline of what we are dealing with. I wish politicians would bear this in mind.

View attachment 36720

View attachment 36721

Worst president ever?--worse than Shrub?-->I don't think so, not until his seditious behaviour after the election.
And let us remember that Shrub was initially elected via a successful coup--one he could have stopped after the 2000 election by stating "Let all the votes in Florida be counted."

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

surely Trump would lose in a landslide. That didn’t happen.

Yes, it did. He lost by more than 7 million votes and by an electoral margin that Trump himself called a landslide.
The fact that the playing field is tilted toward Republicans so that 43,000 votes could have flipped the electoral college despite a 7 million+ popular vote margin, is a testament to how heavily rigged the system is, not a measure of any enduring popularity of FFvC.

Considering he was the worst goddamn president ever and folks had four years to see the error of their ways, it should have been much worse. It should have been Hooverlike. In that it wasn't should have brought a moment of reflection. For me it was just as much a telling sign of the gross political ignorance of the populace as Sandy Hook was a telling moment of the politicians who run this country.
No one should be surprised, fascinated, or taken aback by anything these people might do or be convinced to do going forward. That is the baseline of what we are dealing with. I wish politicians would bear this in mind.

View attachment 36720

View attachment 36721

Worst president ever?--worse than Shrub?-->I don't think so, not until his seditious behaviour after the election.
And let us remember that Shrub was initially elected via a successful coup--one he could have stopped after the 2000 election by stating "Let all the votes in Florida be counted."

Can we say Trump was the worst President and W was the worst Presidential Administration? It really is hard to gauge the worse one.

W, "watch what we say", Iraq, 2000, "Terror Alert" PR protection system, blindsided by terrorism while Richard Clarke was trying to bring notice of it, pissed off our allies, repeatedly, failed Afghan mission.

Trump, the lies never ended and he wouldn't shut up, tried to strong arm Ukraine into announcing a fake investigation into Joe Biden, secret meeting with Putin, a mockery to our allies, handed North Korea the most beautiful propaganda and declaring the nuclear issue over, reckless use of military with assassination, the rollover in the White House was a farce, and the whole trying to steal an election thing.

Trump is more recent, so it feels worse. But the W Admin was pretty damn bad. The impact of both will be felt for decades. Truthfully, W a major step that led to Trump.

Incredible how right-wing voters elected two of the dumbest and most incompetent Presidents in our history, back to back. In between there was McCain (pod person version) and Romney. Not insanely worthless politicians. But they faced Obama.

 

[Elixir]

Not discounting your point, TV&CC, but Trump’s seditious behavior began in 2016 after the election and before he took office. Then it went on at increasing intensity for over four years.

Trump’s sole redeeming quality is his abject incompetence/stupidity.

 

[jab]

surely Trump would lose in a landslide. That didn’t happen.

Yes, it did. He lost by more than 7 million votes and by an electoral margin that Trump himself called a landslide.
The fact that the playing field is tilted toward Republicans so that 43,000 votes could have flipped the electoral college despite a 7 million+ popular vote margin, is a testament to how heavily rigged the system is, not a measure of any enduring popularity of FFvC.

Considering he was the worst goddamn president ever and folks had four years to see the error of their ways, it should have been much worse. It should have been Hooverlike. In that it wasn't should have brought a moment of reflection. For me it was just as much a telling sign of the gross political ignorance of the populace as Sandy Hook was a telling moment of the politicians who run this country.
No one should be surprised, fascinated, or taken aback by anything these people might do or be convinced to do going forward. That is the baseline of what we are dealing with. I wish politicians would bear this in mind.

View attachment 36720

View attachment 36721

Worst president ever?--worse than Shrub?-->I don't think so, not until his seditious behaviour after the election.
And let us remember that Shrub was initially elected via a successful coup--one he could have stopped after the 2000 election by stating "Let all the votes in Florida be counted."

Can we say Trump was the worst President and W was the worst Presidential Administration? It really is hard to gauge the worse one.

W, "watch what we say", Iraq, 2000, "Terror Alert" PR protection system, blindsided by terrorism while Richard Clarke was trying to bring notice of it, pissed off our allies, repeatedly, failed Afghan mission.

Trump, the lies never ended and he wouldn't shut up, tried to strong arm Ukraine into announcing a fake investigation into Joe Biden, secret meeting with Putin, a mockery to our allies, handed North Korea the most beautiful propaganda and declaring the nuclear issue over, reckless use of military with assassination, the rollover in the White House was a farce, and the whole trying to steal an election thing.

Trump is more recent, so it feels worse. But the W Admin was pretty damn bad. The impact of both will be felt for decades. Truthfully, W a major step that led to Trump.

Incredible how right-wing voters elected two of the dumbest and most incompetent Presidents in our history, back to back. In between there was McCain (pod person version) and Romney. Not insanely worthless politicians. But they faced Obama.

Trump was the worst person to be US President in my lifetime (1950s to present); but he wasn't quite as bad a president as Shrub, in my opinion, until his pathologies got the better of him and he melted down like a pissed-on snowflake when he lost the 2020 election.

 

[jab]

Not discounting your point, TV&CC, but Trump’s seditious behavior began in 2016 after the election and before he took office. Then it went on at increasing intensity for over four years.

Trump’s sole redeeming quality is his abject incompetence/stupidity.

Shrub was extremely stupid, but more humble or self-aware than Trump, so he surrounded himself with competent people, some of them quasi-fascists.

 

[SLD]

Trump apparently drafted an executive order for the National Guard to seize voting machines. In the end he didn’t sign it. Not sure what stopped him.

Trump draft executive order would have authorized National Guard to seize voting machines

The order, which was obtained by Politico, was never signed by the former president.

www.nbcnews.com

 

[blastula]

The answer is it was Rudy.

Trump campaign officials, led by Rudy Giuliani, oversaw fake electors plot in 7 states

Trump campaign officials, led by Rudy Giuliani, oversaw efforts in December 2020 to put forward illegitimate electors from seven states that Trump lost, according to three sources with direct knowledge of the scheme.

www.cnn.com

 

[Keith&Co.]

I wonder if all these Republicans really ARE totally innocent of sedition, which they would love to clear, but the requests for information include internet activity, and unfortunately that's the day Trump texted, "Man, don't ever google 'Mr. Hands.'"

 

[lpetrich]

Here's a case of a Republican imitating Trump and being a very sore loser.
Pro-Trump candidate in Florida is blaming election fraud for his humiliating defeat - Raw Story - Celebrating 17 Years of Independent Journalism
The special election on Jan 11 of this year for FL-20, vacated by the death of long-time incumbent Alcee Hastings.

Democrat Sheila Cherfilus-McCormick defeated Republican Jason Mariner 78.7% - 19.6% with three other candidates receiving 0.7%, 0.5%, and 0.5% of the vote.

One might expect losing by 59.1 percentage points to be a convincing defeat, but JM is now suing because he thinks that his loss was because of electoral fraud.

But SCMC's victory over JM was actually typical of the district. Here are her predecessor's victories: 2020 57.4, 2018 --, 2016 60.6, 2014 63.2, 2012 75.8, 2010 58.2, 2008 64.4, 2006 --, 2004 --, 2002 55.0, 2000 52.6, 1998 --, 1996 47.0, 1994 --, 1992 27.4. The -- means lack of a general-election challenger. SCMC's victory was not much different.

One has to ask what JM was thinking. Did he really consider himself such a great candidate that he'd win no matter what? Or was he using some nationwide or statewide vote fractions?

But some other Republicans have been good losers, like in the California governor recall and in the New Jersey governor race.

 

[Swammerdami]

Trump is more recent, so it feels worse. But the W Admin was pretty damn bad. The impact of both will be felt for decades. Truthfully, W a major step that led to Trump.

Incredible how right-wing voters elected two of the dumbest and most incompetent Presidents in our history, back to back. In between there was McCain (pod person version) and Romney. Not insanely worthless politicians. But they faced Obama.

I hate to defend Shrub, but he had the potential to be a President on a par with Buchanan or Harding if he had asked his Mom to help him on major decisions and had selected a human being for the V.P. slot. Instead he made Darth Vader his V.P. and Darth appointed a Sec'y Defense who was in a hurry to play at War before he kicked the bucket. For chief political advisor Shrub went with Karl Rove, one of the most detestable slime-bags ever seen in U.S. politics.

The U.S. had never seen an Administration as corrupt and incompetent as the Cheney-Rove Administration. I assumed that its like would never recur even if the U.S. survived for another thousand years. Instead the horror was exceeded, in spades, in my own lifetime.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Trump is more recent, so it feels worse. But the W Admin was pretty damn bad. The impact of both will be felt for decades. Truthfully, W a major step that led to Trump.

Incredible how right-wing voters elected two of the dumbest and most incompetent Presidents in our history, back to back. In between there was McCain (pod person version) and Romney. Not insanely worthless politicians. But they faced Obama.

I hate to defend Shrub, but he had the potential to be a President on a par with Buchanan or Harding if he had asked his Mom to help him on major decisions and had selected a human being for the V.P. slot. Instead he made Darth Vader his V.P. and Darth appointed a Sec'y Defense who was in a hurry to play at War before he kicked the bucket. For chief political advisor Shrub went with Karl Rove, one of the most detestable slime-bags ever seen in U.S. politics.

The U.S. had never seen an Administration as corrupt and incompetent as the Cheney-Rove Administration. I assumed that its like would never recur even if the U.S. survived for another thousand years. Instead the horror was exceeded, in spades, in my own lifetime.

That is why I led with W being the worst Administration.

The Trump Admin was dysfunctional and self-destructive.

Trump was a deviant in the White House. W, well over his head and could have been a decent person, but gave some pretty outdated dinosaurs unrestricted access to power. Trump and the GOP put the dumbest and at times anti-Government people in charge to self-destruct our Government in whole.

They are both quite awful.