January 6 Hearings Live

[ZiprHead]

Jeffrey Clark's home was raided and searched by the FBI this morning. Announced by ABC News just before 3 pm. They said Clark was standing out in the street watching in his pajamas.

Holy Crap!

Here is Tucker Carlson's response to the pajamas.

View attachment 39190

Isn't that Tucker's response to everything?

 

[Elixir]

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I thought 1/6 was bad. The investigation, which has effectively been using Trump appointed, GOP approved people in the Trump Admin as all the witnesses, has been even more damning than I thought. If a trial could be held before a judge, Trump would be convicted of sedition and conspiracy to commit sedition.

 

[blastula]

 

[Elixir]

I thought 1/6 was bad. The investigation, which has effectively been using Trump appointed, GOP approved people in the Trump Admin as all the witnesses, has been even more damning than I thought. If a trial could be held before a judge, Trump would be convicted of sedition and conspiracy to commit sedition.

It is a sad and scary fact that the fate of this country might very well end up resting in the mentally incompetent hands of some trumpsucking juror who will refuse to convict the orange menace, no matter who airtight the evidence against him.

 

[prideandfall]

I thought 1/6 was bad. The investigation, which has effectively been using Trump appointed, GOP approved people in the Trump Admin as all the witnesses, has been even more damning than I thought. If a trial could be held before a judge, Trump would be convicted of sedition and conspiracy to commit sedition.

It is a sad and scary fact that the fate of this country might very well end up resting in the mentally incompetent hands of some trumpsucking juror who will refuse to convict the orange menace, no matter who airtight the evidence against him.

if it's any consolation, it won't come to that - because this will never lead to any sort of criminal trial.

a select committee is simply an investigative body which can then make recommendations to other agencies on actions to pursue.
there is zero chance that the committee will make a strong proposal for criminal prosecution of trump or anyone else, at best they might issue a public statement saying "eehhh maybe someone should do something, if they feel like it maybe?" about the whole thing.

if by some longshot impossible odds miracle the DOJ or FBI or someone actually took all the evidence from the hearing and built a case against trump et al, the repubs would flip the utter fuck out about it and the dems would instantly capitulate and apologize for being 'partisan' and there would be a unified governmental PR front to stop any formal criminal investigation "for the sake of unity and moving forward"

so, your fear is unfounded - there will never be a trial at all on which a trump supporter could be a juror.

 

[Elixir]

if by some longshot impossible odds miracle the DOJ or FBI or someone actually took all the evidence from the hearing and built a case against trump et al, the repubs would flip the utter fuck out about it and the dems would instantly capitulate and apologize for being 'partisan' and there would be a unified governmental PR front to stop any formal criminal investigation "for the sake of unity and moving forward"

I do not think that is so.
IF by some longshot the DOJ (the only entity actually empowered to do anything about it) took up a criminal prosecution, it would be because they
* knew they had evidence enough to convict, and
* had the support of 75+ percent of the American public in doing so, indicating that some lone trumpsucker would be unlikely to make it onto the jury.
There will be some lower-level criminals who will face the music first, and (I think and hope) those trials will force the emergence of even more facts of presidential misconduct.
I know we're not there yet, but just this morning I saw a post from a midwestern conservative online friend expressing that no matter how much she dislikes Biden, no matter how bad a job she believes he has done and is doing, she will vote for literally ANYONE running against Dolt45. This is completely new from her, just since the hearings began. I don't know how she got exposed to what was revealed, having been insulated under the RW propaganda blanket for years. But the hearing have hardly begun to have any significant effect yet. I know, that offers no assurance that they ever will, hence "by some longshot", but the conditions I outlined are not impossible.

Yes, if I had to bet, I'd bet we are in an inexorable slide toward fascism, but I've lost some bets that looked more solid.

 

[prideandfall]

if by some longshot impossible odds miracle the DOJ or FBI or someone actually took all the evidence from the hearing and built a case against trump et al, the repubs would flip the utter fuck out about it and the dems would instantly capitulate and apologize for being 'partisan' and there would be a unified governmental PR front to stop any formal criminal investigation "for the sake of unity and moving forward"

I do not think that is so.

i mean, ok... but i don't get why.
have you been aware of anything politically in the US for the last 60 years?
politicians do not face consequences for their criminal actions involved in the process of governance.
the only actions politicians face consequences for are social faux pas, and sometimes those will end up being intertwined with politics, but nothing actually ever *happens*

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I thought 1/6 was bad. The investigation, which has effectively been using Trump appointed, GOP approved people in the Trump Admin as all the witnesses, has been even more damning than I thought. If a trial could be held before a judge, Trump would be convicted of sedition and conspiracy to commit sedition.

It is a sad and scary fact that the fate of this country might very well end up resting in the mentally incompetent hands of some trumpsucking juror who will refuse to convict the orange menace, no matter who airtight the evidence against him.

if it's any consolation, it won't come to that - because this will never lead to any sort of criminal trial.

a select committee is simply an investigative body which can then make recommendations to other agencies on actions to pursue.
there is zero chance that the committee will make a strong proposal for criminal prosecution of trump or anyone else, at best they might issue a public statement saying "eehhh maybe someone should do something, if they feel like it maybe?" about the whole thing.

if by some longshot impossible odds miracle the DOJ or FBI or someone actually took all the evidence from the hearing and built a case against trump et al, the repubs would flip the utter fuck out about it and the dems would instantly capitulate and apologize for being 'partisan' and there would be a unified governmental PR front to stop any formal criminal investigation "for the sake of unity and moving forward"

so, your fear is unfounded - there will never be a trial at all on which a trump supporter could be a juror.

Okay, this has been repeated many times, initially by the Special Prosecutor. This is a Constitutional Problem with a Constitutional Solution. Impeachment is the only real solution. POTUS has ridiculous levels of protection from investigation. The only thing that protects the country from this absurd protection is the people who were President before, typically took that seriously. Trump didn't. And the GOP is on course for turning this into a single party state.

All things equal, this investigation can't get much more damning than it has been. In a perfect world, Trump, Giuliani, Brooks all are put into prison for inciting a riot that got people killed. This world isn't perfect, our Constitution isn't bullet proof, our Democracy is dying.

 

[Elixir]

if by some longshot impossible odds miracle the DOJ or FBI or someone actually took all the evidence from the hearing and built a case against trump et al, the repubs would flip the utter fuck out about it and the dems would instantly capitulate and apologize for being 'partisan' and there would be a unified governmental PR front to stop any formal criminal investigation "for the sake of unity and moving forward"

I do not think that is so.

i mean, ok... but i don't get why.
have you been aware of anything politically in the US for the last 60 years?

Not quite 60 years. My political activism began with getting tear-gassed at an SDS demonstration ca. 1966, so give me another few years.

politicians do not face consequences for their criminal actions involved in the process of governance.

John Mitchell went to jail, Howard Hunt went to jail, Ehrlichman went to jail, Liddy went to jail, Dwight Chapin went to jail, Howard Hunt went to jail, Chuck Colson went to jail, and IIRC there were a bunch more whose names escape at the moment. All for a relatively minor episode that destroyed a presidency.

the only actions politicians face consequences for are social faux pas, and sometimes those will end up being intertwined with politics, but nothing actually ever *happens*

I acknowledge that since the Cheato Junta came to power, that is more the case than ever. But it is not carved in stone, and has not always been that way - even over the last 60 56 years. Even jailing the likes of Eastman, Clark et al would have a chilling effect on the fascists.

 

[prideandfall]

if by some longshot impossible odds miracle the DOJ or FBI or someone actually took all the evidence from the hearing and built a case against trump et al, the repubs would flip the utter fuck out about it and the dems would instantly capitulate and apologize for being 'partisan' and there would be a unified governmental PR front to stop any formal criminal investigation "for the sake of unity and moving forward"

I do not think that is so.

i mean, ok... but i don't get why.
have you been aware of anything politically in the US for the last 60 years?

Not quite 60 years. My political activism began with getting tear-gassed at an SDS demonstration ca. 1966, so give me another few years.

politicians do not face consequences for their criminal actions involved in the process of governance.

John Mitchell went to jail, Howard Hunt went to jail, Ehrlichman went to jail, Liddy went to jail, Dwight Chapin went to jail, Howard Hunt went to jail, Chuck Colson went to jail, and IIRC there were a bunch more whose names escape at the moment. All for a relatively minor episode that destroyed a presidency.

the only actions politicians face consequences for are social faux pas, and sometimes those will end up being intertwined with politics, but nothing actually ever *happens*

I acknowledge that since the Cheato Junta came to power, that is more the case than ever. But it is not carved in stone, and has not always been that way - even over the last 60 56 years. Even jailing the likes of Eastman, Clark et al would have a chilling effect on the fascists.

sorry i should be more clear: elected officials face no consequences for their political criminal actions.

appointees and career beaurucrats sure, when a sacrificial lamb is needed to appease the mob. but the body politic kinda freaked the absolute fuck out when the thing snowballed and nixon actually got pinned for something illegal and had anything happen because of it and collectively decided to never let that happen again.

 

[ZiprHead]

John Mitchell went to jail, Howard Hunt went to jail, Ehrlichman went to jail, Liddy went to jail, Dwight Chapin went to jail, Howard Hunt went to jail, Chuck Colson went to jail, and IIRC there were a bunch more whose names escape at the moment. All for a relatively minor episode that destroyed a presidency.

There was a pretty good chance Nixon could have gone to jail if not for Ford's pardon.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

There was a pretty good chance Nixon could have gone to jail if not for Ford's pardon.

That's absolutely true. Ford was a protofascist because at every opportunity during the debacle he insisted Nixon did nothing wrong. Ford sucks balls. And don't forget how the GOP loved Nixon to his death, like a god.

 

[ZiprHead]

There was a pretty good chance Nixon could have gone to jail if not for Ford's pardon.

That's absolutely true. Ford was a protofascist because at every opportunity during the debacle he insisted Nixon did nothing wrong. Ford sucks balls. And don't forget how the GOP loved Nixon to his death, like a god.

I remember being embarrassed that he came from Michigan.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Committee announces sudden hearing for tomorrow. They weren't supposed to have a hearing until July.

The committee’s investigation has been ongoing during the hearings that started three weeks ago, and the nine-member panel has continued to compile evidence. Among other investigative evidence, the committee recently obtained new footage of then-President Donald Trump and his inner circle taken both before and after Jan. 6, 2021 from British filmmaker Alex Holder.

Holder said last week that he had complied with a congressional subpoena to turn over all of the footage he shot in the final weeks of Trump’s 2020 reelection campaign.

Granted, even a "smoking gun" will be "locker room banter", but I really need the money shot here. Trump saying the most self-incriminating stuff possible, on video tape (well, it wouldn't be tape, but you get the point!).

 

[Jarhyn]

Committee announces sudden hearing for tomorrow. They weren't supposed to have a hearing until July.

The committee’s investigation has been ongoing during the hearings that started three weeks ago, and the nine-member panel has continued to compile evidence. Among other investigative evidence, the committee recently obtained new footage of then-President Donald Trump and his inner circle taken both before and after Jan. 6, 2021 from British filmmaker Alex Holder.

Holder said last week that he had complied with a congressional subpoena to turn over all of the footage he shot in the final weeks of Trump’s 2020 reelection campaign.

Granted, even a "smoking gun" will be "locker room banter", but I really need the money shot here. Trump saying the most self-incriminating stuff possible, on video tape (well, it wouldn't be tape, but you get the point!).

Smocking. The gun is "smocking" remember?

 

[Gospel]

Do you see that crowd of people with smug looks on their faces seated over there? Yeah, the ones wearing an international press pass. They were looking forward to that break so this had better be good. They've threatened to use terms like a witch hunt, nothing burger, & grandstanding out of spite because they know the committee doesn't like that shit.

 

[Cheerful Charlie]

The Tuesday hearing just announced is at 1 O'Clock EST. This is so exciting. I am going to pop a big bowl of popcorn.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

Committee announces sudden hearing for tomorrow. They weren't supposed to have a hearing until July.

The committee’s investigation has been ongoing during the hearings that started three weeks ago, and the nine-member panel has continued to compile evidence. Among other investigative evidence, the committee recently obtained new footage of then-President Donald Trump and his inner circle taken both before and after Jan. 6, 2021 from British filmmaker Alex Holder.

Holder said last week that he had complied with a congressional subpoena to turn over all of the footage he shot in the final weeks of Trump’s 2020 reelection campaign.

Granted, even a "smoking gun" will be "locker room banter", but I really need the money shot here. Trump saying the most self-incriminating stuff possible, on video tape (well, it wouldn't be tape, but you get the point!).

I watched a couple Holder interviews. The man said that after interviewing Orange he changed his opinion that Orange was just lying, that Clownstick didn't really believe his own lies. Holder said he is convinced that orange believes he won. In my view Orange is just as good a liar as all his sycophants. They share a common trait.

But in the end it doesn't matter if Fuckface gets hauled into court and defends his actions by saying "I honestly believed I won." That doesn't absolve you of crimes you committed like intimidating state AGs or producing fake documents or inciting violence. You're still guilty of those crimes. You might as well tell the ticketing officer that you don't believe there is a stop sign or a red light that that you just blew through. Say it though and you may get an interesting response from the judge.

Orange has run his entire life this way. He's a cheater, a liar and an all around excellent criminal.

 

[ZiprHead]

Committee announces sudden hearing for tomorrow. They weren't supposed to have a hearing until July.

The committee’s investigation has been ongoing during the hearings that started three weeks ago, and the nine-member panel has continued to compile evidence. Among other investigative evidence, the committee recently obtained new footage of then-President Donald Trump and his inner circle taken both before and after Jan. 6, 2021 from British filmmaker Alex Holder.

Holder said last week that he had complied with a congressional subpoena to turn over all of the footage he shot in the final weeks of Trump’s 2020 reelection campaign.

Granted, even a "smoking gun" will be "locker room banter", but I really need the money shot here. Trump saying the most self-incriminating stuff possible, on video tape (well, it wouldn't be tape, but you get the point!).

I watched a couple Holder interviews. The man said that after interviewing Orange he changed his opinion that Orange was just lying, that Clownstick didn't really believe his own lies. Holder said he is convinced that orange believes he won. In my view Orange is just as good a liar as all his sycophants. They share a common trait.

But in the end it doesn't matter if Fuckface gets hauled into court and defends his actions by saying "I honestly believed I won." That doesn't absolve you of crimes you committed like intimidating state AGs or producing fake documents or inciting violence. You're still guilty of those crimes. You might as well tell the ticketing officer that you don't believe there is a stop sign or a red light that that you just blew through. Say it though and you may get an interesting response from the judge.

Orange has run his entire life this way. He's a cheater, a liar and an all around excellent criminal.

What he believes about the election really doesn't matter in this case. He chose to do something he repeatedly was told was illegal.