Jussie Smollet - Horrible Hate Crime or Horrible Case of TDS?

[TSwizzle]

If people did not jump to conclusions so quickly we might have more success at separating the wheat from the chaff i.e. real hate crimes vs. hoaxes.

The problem is, this incident was driven to prominence by people who wanted it to be true.

Horseshit. It was “driven to prominence” because (a) he’s a public figure on a popular TV show, (b) the details were (deliberately) shocking and conflicting and (c) we now live in a world where the POTUS openly encourages racism and violence against anyone not white, so, once again, the likelihood that it was true far outweighed the likelihood that it was false.

Still smarting that it wasn't true hey ? Give it time, you'll get over it.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Horseshit. It was “driven to prominence” because (a) he’s a public figure on a popular TV show, (b) the details were (deliberately) shocking and conflicting and (c) we now live in a world where the POTUS openly encourages racism and violence against anyone not white, so, once again, the likelihood that it was true far outweighed the likelihood that it was false.

Still smarting that it wasn't true hey ? Give it time, you'll get over it.

This might come as a shock, but people don't generally like being lied to. Your point seems to be missing the mark and your glee over this is a bit much. After all, are you suggesting people were hoping the hate crime massacre at the Synagogue was true too?

 

[Koyaanisqatsi]

Horseshit. It was “driven to prominence” because (a) he’s a public figure on a popular TV show, (b) the details were (deliberately) shocking and conflicting and (c) we now live in a world where the POTUS openly encourages racism and violence against anyone not white, so, once again, the likelihood that it was true far outweighed the likelihood that it was false.

Still smarting that it wasn't true hey ?

Still completely missing the point while ironically affirming it hey?

 

[TSwizzle]

This might come as a shock, but people don't generally like being lied to.

I understand that but they should move on.

Your point seems to be missing the mark and your glee over this is a bit much.

Glee ? Not hardly, I'm indifferent to this sorry state of affairs.

 

[Gun Nut]

But it's clear from the OP post #1 there were some who found it at least questionable from the beginning.

Myself included shit-for-brains. Hence my qualifying in my first post itt: "Unless he's off his meds or something." Iow, unless he's got mental problems, which clearly he does if he thought he could get away with mailing himself fake anthrax and then staging a fake hate crime attack in this manner. These were clearly not the actions of a mentally stable individual.

Koy. I am wrong about things all the time... I guess that is how I so easily accept being wrong, and so easily learn new things. You should probably try that sometime. Step one is to recognize opportunities for humility. You shouldn't have to review your first post (as I did) to see that you were completely and without reserve of any kind, in defense of his story.. and continued defending the story against skeptics right up until the story broke that he was lying all along. Own that. It's ok.
My first posting in this thread was of surprise that so many people were calling the story "fishy".. I had no idea how they called that at the time. I expressed surprise, but not rejection simply because I was surprised. I thought it was racist or Trumpian, or... something driving the skepticism. but it was their good instincts and disection of the details that gave them their (correct) degree of skepticism.

You were wrong. I was surprised... we should both be over it by now and all together on the same page on this at this point.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

This might come as a shock, but people don't generally like being lied to.

I understand that but they should move on.

Your point seems to be missing the mark and your glee over this is a bit much.

Glee ? Not hardly, I'm indifferent to this sorry state of affairs.

Which explains your continued presence in this thread.

 

[thebeave]

Just for the record, I actually know Sarah Silverman and what was omitted was the caption:

Walking to get coffee saw these all over a sidewalk in the town I'm in. Is this an attempt at swastikas? Do neo nazis not have google?

Clearly a joke, because, you know, she’s a fucking comedian, but thanks for the irony.

As for the Bowling Green incident, this was what the student saw as she was walking past the window:
View attachment 20298
From where she stood, it actually does look like there’s a guy in a klan hood in the window and considering the fact that Bowling Green does have a history with the KKK, it’s an understandable mistake.

Well, later Twitter postings seem to indicate Sarah did not intend it as a joke:

https://www.nbcsandiego.com/entertainment/entertainment-news/Sarah-Silverman-Slammed-After-Mistakenly-Tweeting-Constructions-Signs-as-Swastikas-413712173.html

She tweets,

It's a construction marker. Innocent mistake for a Jew that gets "burn in an oven!" at least weekly on twitter. Still pretty close though..

and later, she tweets

I'll say this, when I'm brilliant that's real fun and nice, but when I'm astoundingly stupid, that's when I know who my friends are.

And as far as the white hood mistake, I guess when you have an SJW infected brain, pretty much everything seems racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic,.... I cringe to think what she sees when she looks up at the clouds.

 

[Trausti]

Hate Crime Hoaxes are More Common than You Think

[post then describes 4 potential hoaxes]

No. About 4 hoaxes in 3 years isn't more common than I'd expect, and has no bearing on the reality of the actual hate crimes or the rise in white supremacy and it's prevalence among Trump's fanbase that inspired these rare hoaxes.

That this case turned out to be a hoax shouldn't come as too big of a shock. A great many hate crime stories turn out to be hoaxes. Simply looking at what happened to the most widely reported hate crime stories over the past 4-5 years illustrates this: not only the Smollett case but also the Yasmin Seweid, Air Force Academy, Eastern Michigan, Wisconsin-Parkside, Kean College, Covington Catholic, and “Hopewell Baptist burning” racial scandals all turned out to be fakes. And, these cases are not isolated outliers.

Doing research for a book, Hate Crime Hoax, I was able to easily put together a data set of 409 confirmed hate hoaxes. An overlapping but substantially different list of 348 hoaxes exists at fakehatecrimes.org, and researcher Laird Wilcox put together another list of at least 300 in his still-contemporary book Crying Wolf. To put these numbers in context, a little over 7,000 hate crimes were reported by the FBI in 2017 and perhaps 8-10% of these are widely reported enough to catch the eye of a national researcher.

Hate crime hoaxes, like Jussie Smollett's alleged attack, are more common than you think

And hot off the hate hoax presses:

Jackson gay rights leader accused of burning down own home

When the home of Nikki Joly burned down in 2017, killing five pets, the FBI investigated it as a hate crime.

After all, the transgender man and gay rights activist had received threats after having a banner year in this conservative town.

In the prior six months, he helped open the city’s first gay community center, organized the first gay festival and, after 18 years of failed attempts, helped lead a bruising battle for an ordinance that prohibits discrimination against gays.

For his efforts, a local paper named him the Citizen of the Year.

Authorities later determined the fire was intentionally set, but the person they arrested came as a shock to both supporters and opponents of the gay rights movement. It was the citizen of the year — Nikki Joly.

 

[thebeave]

Did real Nazis (albeit with poor spelling skills) do this, or is it a hoax? You decide:

https://www.cnn.com/2019/02/23/us/swastikas-new-york-elementary-school/index.html

New York (CNN)New York Governor Andrew Cuomo has directed the State Police Hate Crimes Task Force to assist the New York Police Department in its investigation of Nazi drawings found Friday morning at an elementary school in Queens.

 

[Koyaanisqatsi]

Koy. I am wrong about things all the time...

Case in point.

 

[Koyaanisqatsi]

Well, later Twitter postings seem to indicate Sarah did not intend it as a joke:

The joke—the punchline—was “Do neo-nazis not have google?” The set up was, “Are these supposed to be swastikas?” Because they looked like swastikas. The fact that she didn’t know what they actually were is irrelevant to the joke.

As she noted:

It's a construction marker. Innocent mistake for a Jew that gets "burn in an oven!" at least weekly on twitter. Still pretty close though..

Still pretty close though. The joke is that neo-nazis are so fucking stupid that they can’t figure out how to use google, so instead they need to spray paint swastikas all over the place to find their way home. You evidently don’t find it funny to make fun of neo-nazis like all of humanity does, so your literalist mind apparently couldn’t process it, so you (and many likeminded TDS clones on twitter) instead focused on the irrelevant details of the set up.

It’s like when a comedian says, “Two guys walk into a bar” and you interrupt him and ask, “Which bar?”

And as far as the white hood mistake, I guess when you have an SJW infected brain, pretty much everything seems racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic

And I gues when you have TDS, you lose your sense of humor and can’t figure out what a joke is. But thanks for the continuing irony.

 

[thebeave]

The joke—the punchline—was “Do neo-nazis not have google?” The set up was, “Are these supposed to be swastikas?” Because they looked like swastikas. The fact that she didn’t know what they actually were is irrelevant to the joke.

As she noted:

Still pretty close though. The joke is that neo-nazis are so fucking stupid that they can’t figure out how to use google, so instead they need to spray paint swastikas all over the place to find their way home. You evidently don’t find it funny to make fun of neo-nazis like all of humanity does, so your literalist mind apparently couldn’t process it, so you (and many likeminded TDS clones on twitter) instead focused on the irrelevant details of the set up.

It’s like when a comedian says, “Two guys walk into a bar” and you interrupt him and ask, “Which bar?”

And as far as the white hood mistake, I guess when you have an SJW infected brain, pretty much everything seems racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic

And I gues when you have TDS, you lose your sense of humor and can’t figure out what a joke is. But thanks for the continuing irony.

While I can see and make some sense of your interpretation of her "joke", you seem to be about the only one, regardless of political affiliation, who takes that view of it. The fact that a majority of people didn't get her "joke" is a testament to her comedy skills, I'm afraid.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Still pretty close though. The joke is that neo-nazis are so fucking stupid that they can’t figure out how to use google, so instead they need to spray paint swastikas all over the place to find their way home. You evidently don’t find it funny to make fun of neo-nazis like all of humanity does, so your literalist mind apparently couldn’t process it, so you (and many likeminded TDS clones on twitter) instead focused on the irrelevant details of the set up.

I think thebeave is noting that people are seeing "neonazi" symbolism everywhere, even where it isn't. IE... that some people are easily triggered by anything.

This would seem a bit odd seeing that a lot of people that are making this claim are supporting the most easily triggered human being on the planet. A person that makes a liberal art's Peace Study major seem level and composed.

 

[Koyaanisqatsi]

While I can see and make some sense of your interpretation of her "joke", you seem to be about the only one, regardless of political affiliation, who takes that view of it. The fact that a majority of people didn't get her "joke" is a testament to her comedy skills, I'm afraid.

"Majority"? "Seem."

More irony.

 

[Gun Nut]

Koy. I am wrong about things all the time...

Case in point.

As I point to your case, yes.

 

[thebeave]

Still pretty close though. The joke is that neo-nazis are so fucking stupid that they can’t figure out how to use google, so instead they need to spray paint swastikas all over the place to find their way home. You evidently don’t find it funny to make fun of neo-nazis like all of humanity does, so your literalist mind apparently couldn’t process it, so you (and many likeminded TDS clones on twitter) instead focused on the irrelevant details of the set up.

I think thebeave is noting that people are seeing "neonazi" symbolism everywhere, even where it isn't. IE... that some people are easily triggered by anything.

This would seem a bit odd seeing that a lot of people that are making this claim are supporting the most easily triggered human being on the planet. A person that makes a liberal art's Peace Study major seem level and composed.

Are you implying I'm a Trump supporter (i.e. the most easily triggered human being on the planet)? Where did you get that from? I'm definitely not, though at the same time, he doesn't live rent free in my brain like many anti-Trumpers on this board. I know this may be hard for some to believe, but its possible for someone to point out insanity and stupidity on both sides of the aisle.

 

[Koyaanisqatsi]

I think thebeave is noting that people are seeing "neonazi" symbolism everywhere, even where it isn't.

I think he's asserting that, but that's a different matter.

IE... that some people are easily triggered by anything.

And what would be the purpose of "noting" such a thing?

This would seem a bit odd seeing that a lot of people that are making this claim are supporting the most easily triggered human being on the planet. A person that makes a liberal art's Peace Study major seem level and composed.

That's part of it, but it also has to do with the psychology of fascism that thebeave likely is not even aware he (and others) are blindly promulgating. The better term would be "gaslighting," such as when the Nazis put "Work Sets You Free" over the gates of their concentration camps.

Or using terms like "Trump Derangement Syndrome" and "Social Justice Warrior."

The goal, of course, is to artificially normalize the oppression and supplant the old with the new "world order." It's what Orwell so deftly illustrated with Newspeak and the destruction of the past. Any time a legitimate concern is raised, it is drowned out. Any time something like Smollett comes up, it is heralded and raised up as a false equivalence, so that the narrative is one in which the world of Trump is normal and the world of everyone else--the actual majority--is suppressed and warped.

 

[ronburgundy]

The fact that a majority of people didn't get her "joke" is a testament to her comedy skills, I'm afraid.

First, you have no evidence that any more than a very tiny % of people didn't get her joke. (Hint: the tiny % of people who respond to a particular tweet are not representative of any larger population).

Second, comedy skills are no more indicated by most people getting the joke, than musical talent is indicated by popularity (were the Backstreet Boys the most talented musical artists of the 90's?), or valid science is indicated by the majority of people accepting and accurately understanding it (Is the ToE false in Alabama just b/c most people there don't "get it"?). If anything, there is a negative correlation between mainstream popularity and talent in comedy and most art forms.

BTW, it is worth noting the objectively false reporting about her tweet. She didn't say they were swastika's. In fact, her tweet makes it clear she knew they were not actual swastika's. She merely asked the question whether they were someone's attempt at Swastikas, and joked that if they were, then the Nazi doesn't know how to use google to get it right. Google images of "wrong swastikas" and you'll see many pics of clearly intended graffiti swastikas gone wrong. So, given that graffiti swastikas are ubiquitous, commonly drawn wrong, and that what she saw had 75% overlap with actual swastikas (likely more overlap than with other common forms of graffiti), it doesn't require being especially sensitive (just aware of one's surroundings) to have the the idea of a swastika be at least somewhat activated by seeing those spraypainted on the sidewalk.

And maybe she is more prone to see that genocidal symbol than you or I, for sound rational reasons that like most Jews with public exposure who say things the right doesn't like, she is targeted with violent anti-Semitic threats on regular basis. When it comes to perception, false positives are usually a byproduct of the system having been exposed to so many actual positives in the past. Show a person tons of pics of actual young women and they will see the image below as a young woman.

But show them tons of pics of old women and they will see it as an old woman.

IOW, just like the hate crime hoaxes are byproducts of the prevalence of actual hate crimes and white supremacist ideology, interpreting an ambiguous object as a threat is influenced by experiencing actual threats. It is there mind's rational response to an objectively high threat level to lower the threshold at which a potential threat is noticed.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

It was obvious that this was a sketchy story from the very beginning. No one should have invested too much time with it, including trying to make it into a case that is representative of others, investigating it, blogging about it, tweeting, news media coverage, etc. Guy is looking for attention and he is getting it. 'Nuff said.

Right wing animal brains can't get enough of it.

View attachment 20265

Is the incident with Zachary Greenberg at Berkeley an example of one of the real ones?