Jussie Smollet - Horrible Hate Crime or Horrible Case of TDS?

[Trausti]

And he's been fired from Empire.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

It was obvious that this was a sketchy story from the very beginning. No one should have invested too much time with it, including trying to make it into a case that is representative of others, investigating it, blogging about it, tweeting, news media coverage, etc. Guy is looking for attention and he is getting it. 'Nuff said.

Right wing animal brains can't get enough of it.

View attachment 20265

Lying about rape. Voter fraud. Fake hate crime.

 

[dismal]

It was obvious that this was a sketchy story from the very beginning. No one should have invested too much time with it, including trying to make it into a case that is representative of others, investigating it, blogging about it, tweeting, news media coverage, etc. Guy is looking for attention and he is getting it. 'Nuff said.

Right wing animal brains can't get enough of it.

View attachment 20265

Lying about rape. Voter fraud. Fake hate crime.

Yeah, the real problem with this is that a far bigger problem is regular crime. More than 500 murders in Chicago last year. How many real hate crimes?

This article suggests about 7000 hate crimes per year and about 400 hate crime hoaxes.

FBI crime stats for 2017 indicate 1.2 million violent crimes and 7.7 million property crimes.

If I have the math right that means hate crimes are .08% of all crimes.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opin...ired-cut-video-chicago-fox-column/2950146002/

 

[dismal]

It was obvious that this was a sketchy story from the very beginning. No one should have invested too much time with it, including trying to make it into a case that is representative of others, investigating it, blogging about it, tweeting, news media coverage, etc. Guy is looking for attention and he is getting it. 'Nuff said.

Right wing animal brains can't get enough of it.

View attachment 20265

Lying about rape. Voter fraud. Fake hate crime.

The second problem with this is it's not like the Smollett case gained notoriety when the right started crowing about it as a fake hate crime.

This thing was all over the national news and getting full on masturbatory stroking from all the Democrat presidential candidates before it was a fake hate crime.

This reaction of "ZMFOG look at the people on the right worked up about a fake hate crime" is total bullshit partisan deflection. Mostly the right is making fun of the left beclowning itself with its overreaction to Smollett. When you make yourself look like an idiot, people are entitled to point it out.

 

[ronburgundy]

Lying about rape. Voter fraud. Fake hate crime.

Yeah, the real problem with this is that a far bigger problem is regular crime. More than 500 murders in Chicago last year. How many real hate crimes?

This article suggests about 7000 hate crimes per year and about 400 hate crime hoaxes.

FBI crime stats for 2017 indicate 1.2 million violent crimes and 7.7 million property crimes.

If I have the math right that means hate crimes are .08% of all crimes.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opin...ired-cut-video-chicago-fox-column/2950146002/

And what % of all crimes in the US are terrorism by Muslims? About 0.00005%. By your logic, no one should care about Muslim terrorism.
The nature of hate crimes make them especially heinous, insidious and in need of extra harsh punishment. When some drunk dude punches a random guy in a bar to who bumps into him, that isn't and act designed to threaten all other people. When a racist premeditates a targeted attack on a person b/c of their race or sexuality, that is a violent threat against every person of that group. Given the long history of open widespread, state-sponsored murderous violence against minorities and homosexuals in the US, such threats are very real and serious. They are nothing short of an acts of terrorism fueled by inherently violent ideology and should be responded to as such, both in terms of extra efforts (e.g., FBI) to find the perps and the severity of punishment. They are a far greater threat to the US and what it is supposed to represent that the terrorism committed in the name of Islam. Which why anyone who shows concern about Muslim terrorism but dismisses racial hate crimes has no sincere concern for terrorism and is just a white supremacist.

 

[thebeave]

Hate crimes is a very broad term, covering many different ethnicities, religions, etc. As white-on-black racism seems to be the primary focus in the US today, I'm sort of curious to see what the stats are on real, verified white-on-black hate crimes versus real, verified white-on-black hoax hate crimes. Just anecdotally from my watching the news and reading articles online, I'm not seeing that much real white-on-black hate crimes being reported. What I see is mostly videos of some white people (seems to be white women mostly) scolding or admonishing some black people over minor infractions. They have been given names like BBQ Betty, Starbucks Restroom Rhonda, Lemonade Stand Laura, Condo Door Doris, Peppermint Patty, etc (OK, I may have made some of those names up ). And its not even clear that these incidents are due to racial hatred as opposed to just some busybody Gladys Kravitz types who have a bug up their butt. And these incidents get reported on the national nightly news and are generally not even really crimes to begin with. If this is what makes headlines as white-on-black racism in today's world then aren't things actually not too bad in a country with 40+ million black people? Where are all the lynchings that Cory Booker and Kamala Harris seem so concerned about that they are making special laws about it?

 

[Koyaanisqatsi]

This reaction of "ZMFOG look at the people on the right worked up about a fake hate crime" is total bullshit partisan deflection.

Horseshit. This is a situation where a mentally unbalanced actor tried to take advantage of a culture where open encouragement of racist hatred by the President of the United States, no less, is the norm. That aspect--the racist hatred--is not fake. What was fake here was that he wasn't actually a victim of it in the manner he claimed; he just tried to exploit it for personal gain.

What the right, however, has been trying to do (as illustrated nicely by that earlier cartoon) is to imply that there is no culture of racist hatred; that it's ALL a hoax and/or not as bad as certain people on the left are making it seem. And they point to something like this as a false equivalence. Iow, they're doing what you're doing here; pointing to an anomaly and asserting that it's the norm.

Mostly the right is making fun of the left beclowning itself with its overreaction to Smollett.

It's not an "overreaction" when you don't assume an otherwise normal and prominent member of society turns out to be a mentally unbalanced individual who inexplicably set into motion an overly complicated hoax.

When you make yourself look like an idiot, people are entitled to point it out.

Is that how you're categorizing the backlash? As people just pointing out that others were fooled by someone they had no reason to think was lying to them?

 

[Trausti]

Hate Crime Hoaxes are More Common than You Think

More baffling to us than a hate crime hoax is that people would find such hoaxes baffling. Lying is hardly uncommon in our species, and false claims of victimhood, like other lies, become more common when they provide some advantage to the liar and when they’re likely to be believed. That hate crime hoaxes seem strange or the motives unclear might simply be due to a lack of familiarity with them and with their social context.

More recently, after Donald Trump was elected president, major newspapers published a number of stories about what were apparently Trump-inspired hate crimes, but many of these also turned out to be hoaxes. A black student at Bowling Green State University falsely claimed three white men wearing Trump paraphernalia attacked her. A bisexual student at North Park University claimed to have gotten notes with homophobic slurs from Trump supporters, but the university president later announced the student had written the notes herself. A Muslim woman in New York falsely claimed that men yelling “Donald Trump” and anti-Muslim insults attacked her and tried to remove her hijab. Similarly, a Muslim student at the University of Michigan falsely claimed that a man told her he’d light her on fire if she didn’t remove her hijab.

That the hoaxes act as simple morality tales illustrating an outgroup’s evil, or that they flatter the hoaxers, are part of what makes them attractive to the hoaxer’s audience. Whether hoaxers have personal motives—such as seeking fame, sympathy, or support—or political motives—such as mobilizing allies to fight a common enemy or injustice—they succeed among those sharing their moral and political commitments, not despite their sloppiness but because of it. Political polarization means that hoaxes that tap into one side’s fears and biases are likely to be believed.

It is in a victimhood culture that hate crime hoaxes are most attractive. Hate crime hoaxes are false tales of oppression, and those who understand human interaction in these terms are quick to believe such tales and offer support to those they see as the victims. And to the extent that the hoaxer already belongs to a group seen as a victim group—ethnic minorities, sexual minorities, etc.—adherents of the new culture tend to see them as especially credible. They might even promote the idea that it’s our moral duty to believe victims. In that context waiting for evidence or giving due process to the accused is itself a form of injustice, a way of further victimizing the oppressed and aiding their oppressors. In a victimhood culture, even when hate crime hoaxes are exposed, they are excused as an attempt to raise awareness of a real problem or as the understandable reaction of someone suffering from so much unrecognized oppression.

 

[Koyaanisqatsi]

What you omitted:

Real hate crimes happen, of course. We’re not arguing that all or even most alleged hate crimes are hoaxes.

Which, of course, translates into most hate crimes are not hoaxes.

 

[thebeave]

Ya gotta admit, as bad as hoax hate crimes are, there is some pure comedy gold out there. Here's a couple of my favorites. These are not so much hoax hate crimes exactly...Nazi and KKK paranoia might be a better term:

https://dailycaller.com/2017/02/12/sarah-silverman-mistakes-sidewalk-utility-markings-for-swastikas/

Sarah Silverman, the comedian and outspoken Trump hater, made an embarrassing blunder on Sunday when she apparently mistook a set of sidewalk utility markings for swastikas.

Or this one:

https://freebeacon.com/issues/college-student-confuses-covered-lab-equipment-with-klan-rally/

A student at Bowling Green State University suspected she saw on Sunday a Ku Klux Klan rally taking place on campus. It turned out to be covered lab equipment.

The student was walking through campus and saw what looked like a white sheet through a window. She quickly took video footage and sounded the alarm on Twitter, messaging the university president about the issue.

 

[Derec]

A student at Bowling Green State University suspected she saw on Sunday a Ku Klux Klan rally taking place on campus. It turned out to be covered lab equipment.

The student was walking through campus and saw what looked like a white sheet through a window. She quickly took video footage and sounded the alarm on Twitter, messaging the university president about the issue.

Hilarious. Had the cover been black or blue, she'd have thought it was a woman in a burqa and felt warm and fuzzy inside over how culturally diverse her campus is ...

 

[Tigers!]

If people did not jump to conclusions so quickly we might have more success at separating the wheat from the chaff i.e. real hate crimes vs. hoaxes.

 

[barbos]

Speaking of swastika, how about this one
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Force_Academy,_Finnish_Air_Force

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Lying about rape. Voter fraud. Fake hate crime.

Yeah, the real problem with this is that a far bigger problem is regular crime.

Gosh! You are right. All this time, we've been paying hundreds of millions in taxes for the Police to only deal with hate crimes, when we should have been more worried about other crimes. I guess we just became accustomed to not caring about normal crime, we forgot all about how general crime was also wrong.

More than 500 murders in Chicago last year. How many real hate crimes?

Only if there were organizations that existed that tried to deal with gang related violence.

This article suggests about 7000 hate crimes per year and about 400 hate crime hoaxes.

FBI crime stats for 2017 indicate 1.2 million violent crimes and 7.7 million property crimes.

What is so unfortunate is that you looked up that statistic before posting because you have a raging web board hard-on thinking you had such a killer point.

If I have the math right that means hate crimes are .08% of all crimes.

Wanna follow-up the math regarding fake hate crimes and how... apparently unimportant they must be.

What seems odd is that the US (or parts of it) has a death penalty... but it isn't used for every murder. This must mean that in America we view crimes at levels of magnitude. There are circumstances that make our blood boil so much we demand that the killer be killed, in some cases. This does not mean that the other murders are viewed as irrelevant or dubious.

 

[Koyaanisqatsi]

Just for the record, I actually know Sarah Silverman and what was omitted was the caption:

Walking to get coffee saw these all over a sidewalk in the town I'm in. Is this an attempt at swastikas? Do neo nazis not have google?

Clearly a joke, because, you know, she’s a fucking comedian, but thanks for the irony.

As for the Bowling Green incident, this was what the student saw as she was walking past the window:

From where she stood, it actually does look like there’s a guy in a klan hood in the window and considering the fact that Bowling Green does have a history with the KKK, it’s an understandable mistake.

 

[ronburgundy]

Ya gotta admit, as bad as hoax hate crimes are, there is some pure comedy gold out there. Here's a couple of my favorites. These are not so much hoax hate crimes exactly...Nazi and KKK paranoia might be a better term:

https://dailycaller.com/2017/02/12/sarah-silverman-mistakes-sidewalk-utility-markings-for-swastikas/

Sarah Silverman, the comedian and outspoken Trump hater, made an embarrassing blunder on Sunday when she apparently mistook a set of sidewalk utility markings for swastikas.

View attachment 20292

The only thing this is an example of is right wing snowflakes getting outraged over a joke they are too dumb to get.

 

[ronburgundy]

Hate Crime Hoaxes are More Common than You Think

[post then describes 4 potential hoaxes]

No. About 4 hoaxes in 3 years isn't more common than I'd expect, and has no bearing on the reality of the actual hate crimes or the rise in white supremacy and it's prevalence among Trump's fanbase that inspired these rare hoaxes.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I will say, it is an odd utility mark. I've never seen a fiber/tele marking like that before. Are they x'ing it out? There is a marking beneath it, so it was a recall.

Wait... this isn't the Utility Protection Services thread. Sorry.

 

[TSwizzle]

If people did not jump to conclusions so quickly we might have more success at separating the wheat from the chaff i.e. real hate crimes vs. hoaxes.

The problem is, this incident was driven to prominence by people who wanted it to be true. It's all very murky and I don't know how Smollett can get a fair trial after the Chicago police chief went on TV and said what he said.

 

[Koyaanisqatsi]

If people did not jump to conclusions so quickly we might have more success at separating the wheat from the chaff i.e. real hate crimes vs. hoaxes.

The problem is, this incident was driven to prominence by people who wanted it to be true.

Horseshit. It was “driven to prominence” because (a) he’s a public figure on a popular TV show, (b) the details were (deliberately) shocking and conflicting and (c) we now live in a world where the POTUS openly encourages racism and violence against anyone not white, so, once again, the likelihood that it was true far outweighed the likelihood that it was false.