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Kapaernick

OK, this shit is getting out of hand now

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I like how people use the military as a shield to defend their opinions. And how this is about free speech... for white people.
 
untermensche said:
dismal said:
Yes, this guy is a medal-winning serviceman who went out to salute the anthem while go rest of his team stayed in the tunnel to protest America.

His coach was a bit ticked off a about it in the press, but fortunately he can't be fired because something in the Constitution.
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And he apologized to his teammates after doing this.

He spit in their faces for what?

To prove he's the biggest sucker of them all? Sent on an immoral mission to do immoral things.
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Yes, he "accidentally" walked out onto the field and "accidentally" put his hand over his heart while the anthem was playing. In all the confusion. Of the anthem playing.

Or maybe he's just an oppressed worker who is now desperate to keep his job. Workers are oppressed by their thuggish owners (who support the protests), you know.
 
Terrell said:
blastula said:
They rest of the team didn't stay inside as a protest neither.
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Good point. Their coach even said so in the post-game interview. He said that he wanted to protect his players that had an opinion as well as the ones that didn't. If I take him at his word, that wasn't a protest on the part of the Steelers.
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Well, maybe Villanueva was able to draw on lessons from his tours in Afghanistan to muster enough courage to walk out into the danger of the national anthem. Anyway, he seems to have survived.
 
So 5he Steelers approach as a team was good. Teams should not be involved with the NA, and also the NA should not be played for games between cities. Gets people revved up for military industrial complex and banker backed wars.
 
A good quote for the day by James Baldwin: “I love America more than any other country in this world, and, exactly for this reason, I insist on the right to criticize her perpetually,”
 
dismal said:
untermensche said:
And he apologized to his teammates after doing this.

He spit in their faces for what?

To prove he's the biggest sucker of them all? Sent on an immoral mission to do immoral things.
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Yes, he "accidentally" walked out onto the field and "accidentally" put his hand over his heart while the anthem was playing. In all the confusion. Of the anthem playing.

Or maybe he's just an oppressed worker who is now desperate to keep his job. Workers are oppressed by their thuggish owners (who support the protests), you know.
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You seem to be all over the place.

What is your point?

Mine is people should be allowed to freely protest and to freely salute. I do question what it is this person spits in his teammates face for. A question you cannot answer it seems.

You seem to be saying that saluting is the only thing you want allowed.

Do you want people who don't genuflect in the manner of your choosing to be punished?
 
untermensche said:
Mine is people should be allowed to freely protest and to freely salute.

You seem to be saying that saluting is the only thing you want allowed.
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Nope. I strongly support the right of free protest and free speech. Though of course I might disagree with what some people say.

I'm just educated enough to know that those rights prevent only the government from punishing you for speaking, and I'm not stupid enough to think they apply in the workplace.
 
dismal said:
Terrell said:
Good point. Their coach even said so in the post-game interview. He said that he wanted to protect his players that had an opinion as well as the ones that didn't. If I take him at his word, that wasn't a protest on the part of the Steelers.
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Well, maybe Villanueva was able to draw on lessons from his tours in Afghanistan to muster enough courage to walk out into the danger of the national anthem. Anyway, he seems to have survived.
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That's his choice. The main thing is that the coach was protecting players from having to publicly take a side if they didn't want to. It's not just the national anthem, but the social/political shit storm that's going on with this. Some would like to avoid it. The Steelers organization seems to be on board with the players staying in the locker room. If they weren't Mr. Rooney should say so.

I don't believe his tours in Afghanistan make his opinion any more valid than anyone else's opinion. At least not in a country where people are supposed to be free to dissent on such matters.

Trump should have stayed out of this, IMO, he shouldn't be telling private employers that they should require a specific point of view from their employees. This sounds quite a bit like McCarthy & his un-American activities commission.
 
dismal said:
untermensche said:
Mine is people should be allowed to freely protest and to freely salute.

You seem to be saying that saluting is the only thing you want allowed.
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Nope. I strongly support the right of free protest and free speech. Though of course I might disagree with what some people say.

I'm just educated enough to know that those rights prevent only the government from punishing you for speaking, and I'm not stupid enough to think they apply in the workplace.
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I believe when the masters at the workplace are doing something unjust they should not be supported.

This is about quietly kneeling.

Nothing else.

If that is not allowed by the masters they are tyrants.
 
untermensche said:
dismal said:
Nope. I strongly support the right of free protest and free speech. Though of course I might disagree with what some people say.

I'm just educated enough to know that those rights prevent only the government from punishing you for speaking, and I'm not stupid enough to think they apply in the workplace.
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I believe when the masters at the workplace are doing something unjust they should not be supported.

This is about quietly kneeling.

Nothing else.

If that is not allowed by the masters they are tyrants.
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That's nice. When you run a workplace you can let people kneel all they want.
 
No one is disrespecting anything. People are simply respectfully and peacefully protesting injustice. There's nothing more to it than that.

It disappoints me that some folks take offense simply because their fellow citizen doesn't share their flag-worship syndrome.
 
dismal said:
Terrell said:
He still can be perceived, reasonably, as abusing the power of his office. Free speech or not.
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This one seems squarely in the category of stating an opinion. That's clearly allowed.

Free speech is what this country is based on!
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Including the players. Here we have a governmental official, using his position in office, to call for people to being deprived of their employment, for having political views he doesn't approve of. Sounds like a more subtle version of McCarthyism to me. You want to call for people to lose their jobs; forfeit the powers of the office. If he were a general (or other powerful military official) I'd say "take off the uniform".

Your workplace argument doesn't work here as the NFL has given it's implied consent to these players taking a knee on the sideline.
 
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