Kim Davis - Kentucky's theocratic ruler

[Arctish]

First they came for the photographer and I discussed the issue with my friends — because the right of a photographer to refuse to provide his/her services to a particular customer is convoluted and messy IRL.

Then they came for the bakers, and the general public discussed it, and fought over it, and looked for a reasonable compromise or legal solution— because balancing the rights of the individual running a business with the rights of citizens to not be discriminated against by a business is not an easy task.

Then they came for the County Clerks, and I did speak out, and so did a lot of other people— because in this country an elected official is not permitted to discriminate against people because of their race, religion, ethnicity, creed, or any other stupid, fucking thing a bigot might use as a reason to deny equal rights, or to ignore their Oath of Office to carry out their duties faithfully and in accordance with the law.

Hopefully someday there will be no need for anyone to speak for me on this issue because there won't be anymore County Clerks trying to deny equal rights among citizens, and whether or not a business can discriminate on religious grounds will be settled law.

 

[laughing dog]

To warm the caring hearts of talkfreethought...

https://www.facebook.com/supportkimdavis

http://www.koreaboo.com/trending/siwon-confirms-stance-sex-marraige/

http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/north-carolina-magistrates-opt-out-performing-marriages

Food for thought:

First they came for the photographers, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a photographer.

Then they came for the bakers, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a baker.

Then they came for the County Clerks, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a County Clerk.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

Updating the thoughts of an anti-Nazi to fit this issue is truly disingenuous/ignorant, since no one is taking any of these ignorant bigots off to a concentration camp to die. It really is a pathetic and desperate appeal to ignorance and emotion.

 

[credoconsolans]

To warm the caring hearts of talkfreethought...

https://www.facebook.com/supportkimdavis

http://www.koreaboo.com/trending/siwon-confirms-stance-sex-marraige/

http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/north-carolina-magistrates-opt-out-performing-marriages

Food for thought:

First they came for the photographers, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a photographer.

Then they came for the bakers, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a baker.

Then they came for the County Clerks, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a County Clerk.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

Updating the thoughts of an anti-Nazi to fit this issue is truly disingenuous/ignorant, since no one is taking any of these ignorant bigots off to a concentration camp to die. It really is a pathetic and desperate appeal to ignorance and emotion.

Exactly. "They" didn't come for anyone. The baker, the photographer and the county clerk are still walking around, free as birds and still able to post Facebook entries decrying the unfairness of their treatment.

 

[AthenaAwakened]

To warm the caring hearts of talkfreethought...

https://www.facebook.com/supportkimdavis

http://www.koreaboo.com/trending/siwon-confirms-stance-sex-marraige/

http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/north-carolina-magistrates-opt-out-performing-marriages

Food for thought:

First they came for the photographers, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a photographer.

Then they came for the bakers, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a baker.

Then they came for the County Clerks, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a County Clerk.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

Updating the thoughts of an anti-Nazi to fit this issue is truly disingenuous/ignorant, since no one is taking any of these ignorant bigots off to a concentration camp to die. It really is a pathetic and desperate appeal to ignorance and emotion.

Yeah Max

That is pretty low, pathetic, and desperate.

Not to mention, wrong.

EPIC FAIL!!!

 

[Arctish]

Ya know, something very interesting happens when you do a google search on the subject of Nazis and marriage licenses. You get this:

SEPTEMBER 15, 1935
NUREMBERG LAWS ARE INSTITUTED
At their annual party rally, the Nazis announce new laws that revoke Reich citizenship for Jews and prohibit Jews from marrying or having sexual relations with persons of "German or related blood." "Racial infamy," as this becomes known, is made a criminal offense. The Nuremberg Laws define a "Jew" as someone with three or four Jewish grandparents. Consequently, the Nazis classify as Jews thousands of people who had converted from Judaism to another religion, among them even Roman Catholic priests and nuns and Protestant ministers whose grandparents were Jewish.

OCTOBER 18, 1935
NEW MARRIAGE REQUIREMENTS INSTITUTED
The "Law for the Protection of the Hereditary Health of the German People" requires all prospective marriage partners to obtain from the public health authorities a certificate of fitness to marry. Such certificates are refused to those suffering from "hereditary illnesses" and contagious diseases and those attempting to marry in violation of the Nuremberg Laws.

NOVEMBER 14, 1935
NUREMBERG LAW EXTENDED TO OTHER GROUPS
The first supplemental decree of the Nuremberg Laws extends the prohibition on marriage or sexual relations between people who could produce "racially suspect" offspring. A week later, the minister of the interior interprets this to mean relations between "those of German or related blood" and Roma (Gypsies), blacks, or their offspring.

<link>

So the Nazis came to power and used their elected offices to deny marriage licenses to people who they believed should not be allowed to marry, but people who oppose Kim Davis using her elected office to deny marriage licenses to people she believes shouldn't be allowed to marry are the ones being compared to Nazis?

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

MAX,

Davis is wrong.

She is also a hypocrite.

She is also a bigot.

She is also a media whore.

She is also short on bravery. (she appears to have about 24 hours worth and I am being generous)


But you keep on defending her, keep trying to make whatever point you think you are making.

We can use the entertainment.

You should have stopped at "Davis is wrong" - on that we agree.

If you wish to judge a book by its cover, her beastly size and tacky clothing does remind me of Madalyn Murray O'Hair - one of the nastiest, most narcissistic, crackpotty media whores to infect the public life of the 20th century. One can imagine all sorts of things about the physically repulsive Ms Davis - arrogance, self righteousness, unstable, etc.

But so far I see little evidence that, today, she is any of those things. There is no evidence of hypocrisy, bigotry, media whoring, or cowardice. Her courtroom behavior does not seem brazen or defiant, and in fact she has been in tears and, upon her release, looking rather frazzled, grateful, and shell shocked. And like anyone normally law abiding citizen who has survived the trauma of jail, she is enjoying the crowd's emotional support.

After leading a chaotic low-life (Davis has been divorced three times) her dying mother-in-law expressed her wish she attend church. She attending a Bible-believing church and she said: “There I heard a message of grace and forgiveness and surrendered my life to Jesus Christ.” She became a born-again Christian, remarried, became active in her church, and now leads a Bible study at the local jail.

Regarding homosexuals, Davis declares, “I have no animosity toward anyone and harbor no ill will.” On this controversy, “To me this has never been a gay or lesbian issue. It is about marriage and God’s Word. It is a matter of religious liberty,”.

She seems to be a devout, nervous, and lonely crusader. Beat up by just about everybody until she took heart in the crowds and visit by Huckabee.

I am, and have always been, either an agnostic or atheist. Since the age of 13 I have debated, mocked, poked and denounced fundamentalists. While they have entertained me in their homes (trying to convert me), taken me to revivals, and one became my lifelong childhood friend (a devout Jehovah's Witness who I "turned" to atheism), I have not found them the odious scum most here believe. In fact, some have been really nice people (shocking I know). (I even attended a Baptist University for a time).

There is, of course, a great deal of silly stupidity among her supporters. The crowd looks like a recasting of the yahoo's in "Inherit the Wind" (photo below) and ripe for an HL Mencken skewering of the "Coca-Cola" (or "Dr. Pepper") belt. Her overall clad husband is ripe for Hee-haw. And it is also sad to see so many benighted people carry dumb signs and rally for a cause they don't understand...rube rebels without a clue for a clause.

Yes, fools grow on trees (I live in the SF Bay Area) so it is not a shock. But being a fool is not the same as being intentionally evil. And so far, I don't see it.

The "Gimmie that Old Time Religion" :

Yes, because this is all about Kim Davis and not the people she discriminated against, in her role as an elected public official. Yes, in general, people can be nice. And you seem to want to judge her now on a level that is willing to ignore her violations of the Constitution to enact her own interpreted religious edicts while serving in Government.

Yes poor Kim Davis. Breaker of laws, defender of bigotry, judge of morality.

 

[maxparrish]

Ya know, something very interesting happens when you do a google search on the subject of Nazis and marriage licenses. You get this:

SEPTEMBER 15, 1935
NUREMBERG LAWS ARE INSTITUTED
At their annual party rally, the Nazis announce new laws that revoke Reich citizenship for Jews and prohibit Jews from marrying or having sexual relations with persons of "German or related blood." "Racial infamy," as this becomes known, is made a criminal offense. The Nuremberg Laws define a "Jew" as someone with three or four Jewish grandparents. Consequently, the Nazis classify as Jews thousands of people who had converted from Judaism to another religion, among them even Roman Catholic priests and nuns and Protestant ministers whose grandparents were Jewish.

OCTOBER 18, 1935
NEW MARRIAGE REQUIREMENTS INSTITUTED
The "Law for the Protection of the Hereditary Health of the German People" requires all prospective marriage partners to obtain from the public health authorities a certificate of fitness to marry. Such certificates are refused to those suffering from "hereditary illnesses" and contagious diseases and those attempting to marry in violation of the Nuremberg Laws.

NOVEMBER 14, 1935
NUREMBERG LAW EXTENDED TO OTHER GROUPS
The first supplemental decree of the Nuremberg Laws extends the prohibition on marriage or sexual relations between people who could produce "racially suspect" offspring. A week later, the minister of the interior interprets this to mean relations between "those of German or related blood" and Roma (Gypsies), blacks, or their offspring.

<link>

So the Nazis came to power and used their elected offices to deny marriage licenses to people who they believed should not be allowed to marry, but people who oppose Kim Davis using her elected office to deny marriage licenses to people she believes shouldn't be allowed to marry are the ones being compared to Nazis?

Aside from the unserious eye-wink at on my little 'food for thought', your comparison is invalid. The accurate comparison would be that of a civil servant in Nazi Germany who refused to participate in "sinning" by refusing couples, and who then would not issue marriage licenses to anyone.

And yes, they would have come for her (as they would any baker or photographer who refused to serve Aryan couples).

 

[laughing dog]

Ya know, something very interesting happens when you do a google search on the subject of Nazis and marriage licenses. You get this:



So the Nazis came to power and used their elected offices to deny marriage licenses to people who they believed should not be allowed to marry, but people who oppose Kim Davis using her elected office to deny marriage licenses to people she believes shouldn't be allowed to marry are the ones being compared to Nazis?

Aside from the unserious eye-wink at on my little 'food for thought', a more accurate comparison would be that of a civil servant who opposed a what she was told "the law" and who then refused to issue marriage licenses to anyone.

And yes, they would have come for her (as they would any baker or photographer who refused to serve Aryan couples).

We will never know for sure, but I will bow to your obvious expertise in Nazi ideology.

 

[ksen]

Thing I learned itt:

Some atheistic/libertarians are quite alright with an agent of the State using her jackboots to deny people their rights as long as it's based on her view of what god wants.

Makes perfect sense.

 

[maxparrish]

Thing I learned itt:

Some atheistic/libertarians are quite alright with an agent of the State using her jackboots to deny people their rights as long as it's based on her view of what god wants.

Makes perfect sense.

Not me. Just sayin...

 

[credoconsolans]

Ya know, something very interesting happens when you do a google search on the subject of Nazis and marriage licenses. You get this:



So the Nazis came to power and used their elected offices to deny marriage licenses to people who they believed should not be allowed to marry, but people who oppose Kim Davis using her elected office to deny marriage licenses to people she believes shouldn't be allowed to marry are the ones being compared to Nazis?

Aside from the unserious eye-wink at on my little 'food for thought', your comparison is invalid. The accurate comparison would be that of a civil servant in Nazi Germany who refused to participate in "sinning" by refusing couples, and who then would not issue marriage licenses to anyone.

And yes, they would have come for her (as they would any baker or photographer who refused to serve Aryan couples).

Except of course, no one ever refused to serve Aryan couples.

Wrong analogy.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Ya know, something very interesting happens when you do a google search on the subject of Nazis and marriage licenses. You get this:



So the Nazis came to power and used their elected offices to deny marriage licenses to people who they believed should not be allowed to marry, but people who oppose Kim Davis using her elected office to deny marriage licenses to people she believes shouldn't be allowed to marry are the ones being compared to Nazis?

Aside from the unserious eye-wink at on my little 'food for thought', your comparison is invalid. The accurate comparison would be that of a civil servant in Nazi Germany who refused to participate in "sinning" by refusing couples, and who then would not issue marriage licenses to anyone.

And yes, they would have come for her (as they would any baker or photographer who refused to serve Aryan couples).

Except in your analogy, Davis is working for the Nazi's, not against them.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

She's still fighting the Civil War. Her name is Davis, after all. Negroes and gays are the same thing. 'Segregation forever.'

 

[Ford]

Some interesting perspective from a County Clerk in a faraway left wing gay-loving land named "Kentucky":

http://www.kentucky.com/2015/09/13/4033967/don-blevins-jr-dont-take-license.html

My role isn't a religious one. When I issue a license or record a marriage, it's an administrative act.

In fact, lost in this discussion is that a marriage license is actually a permanent record like a birth certificate or death certificate. It contains vital statistics that will be used by the government and researchers for centuries to come, and it stands in addition to and aside from any religious ceremony a couple might choose.

Although some have suggested that the government simply get out of marriage altogether, there are very practical reasons why we, as a society, want to confer the numerous benefits of marriage. The Supreme Court has simply said that these benefits must be available to all, equally.

So what should we do?

I support a simple review of the form to insure that we capture the data that we want to preserve for future generations. In addition, I believe that the name or names of the official recording the document should remain because that too is an important element.

Most importantly, I believe that the issuance of marriage licenses should stay exactly where it is. The county clerk is the steward of the county's permanent records. It is the clerk's duty to properly identify both parties and to accurately record the vital statistics.

Clearly, a man who fails to understand the important role he plays in defending religious liberty.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Read an article where Davis's lawyers are trying to argue that because the only people that sued now have licenses they don't need to issue any more marriage licenses to gays. Some call it a Hail Mary. I however recognize that a Hail Mary is lofted while the game is still being played, not after the final whistle.

 

[crazyfingers]

Read an article where Davis's lawyers are trying to argue that because the only people that sued now have licenses they don't need to issue any more marriage licenses to gays. Some call it a Hail Mary. I however recognize that a Hail Mary is lofted while the game is still being played, not after the final whistle.

Like I said previously, or perhaps it was at Secular cafe, I am beginning to suspect that this is now just becoming a desperate act on the part of the lawyers to stay in the news and keep the bigots contributing money to them.

They can't possibly think that this is at all rational.

 

[hurtinbuckaroo]

Kim has had her 15 minutes. Time for a different 'Persecuted Christian' to take center stage.

 

[AthenaAwakened]

Kim has had her 15 minutes. Time for a different 'Persecuted Christian' to take center stage.

Oh I am sure the search is on as we speak.

 

[RavenSky]

The Christian bus driver is trying. He even got himself fired... for lying... but that hasn't stopped the poor persecuted christians from claiming it was because he stood up for his christian principles.

 

[credoconsolans]

The Christian bus driver is trying. He even got himself fired... for lying... but that hasn't stopped the poor persecuted christians from claiming it was because he stood up for his christian principles.

Reminds me of reading about would-be Christian martyrs mobbing the house of the local ancient Roman magistrate insisting on being persecuted, urging him to put them in jail.

Exasperated, he sent them all home.

Seems that some things never change - some Christians have not grown out of their annoying Christian martyr complexes.

- - - Updated - - -

The Christian bus driver is trying. He even got himself fired... for lying... but that hasn't stopped the poor persecuted christians from claiming it was because he stood up for his christian principles.

Reminds me of reading about would-be Christian martyrs mobbing the house of the local ancient Roman magistrate insisting on being persecuted, urging him to put them in jail.

Exasperated, he sent them all home.

Seems that some things never change - some Christians have not grown out of their annoying Christian martyr complexes.