Knife of peace in Arras, France

[Derec]

Teacher killed in France school stabbing

The attack happened at Gambetta high school in the northern city of Arras at about 11:00 local time (09:00 GMT).
The attacker has been arrested and is now in custody.
Witnesses say he shouted "Allahu Akbar", or "God is greatest", during the attack. Visiting the school, President Emmanuel Macron condemned the "barbarity of Islamist terrorism".
Mr Macron called on French people to stay "united" in the face of the attack, to "not give in to terror or let anything divide us".
He said police had averted another attempted attack in another part of France.
The man killed was a French language teacher. Those injured were another teacher and a security guard.
Mr Macron said the teacher had "come forward to protect others and had without doubt saved many lives".
The attacker, named as 20-year-old Russian national Mohamed Mogouchkov, is of Chechen origin and known to the security services for his involvement with Islamist extremism, according to police.

Why are people who are "known to security services for [..] involvement with Islamist extremism" not deported from Europe? That reminds me of the old "security monitor" commercials.

There is more:
Suspect in French teacher’s slaying was held for questioning the day before attack, minister says

A man of Chechen origin who was under surveillance by French security services over suspected Islamic radicalization stabbed a teacher to death at his former high school and critically wounded three other people Friday in northern France, authorities said.
The attack was being investigated by anti-terror prosecutors amid soaring global tensions over the war between Israel and Hamas. It also happened almost three years after another teacher, Samuel Paty, was beheaded by a radicalized Chechen near a Paris area school.

They really dropped the ball on that one, did they?

 

[bilby]

Why are people who are "known to security services for [..] involvement with Islamist extremism" not deported from Europe?

That would be because abolishing the rule of law and allowing deportations on the basis of suspicion, rather than proof, would be far worse than accepting that occasional violent crimes will occur.

Do you have any other mind-bogglingly ill-conceived and absurdly simplistic suggestions, or can the grown-ups get on with trying to avoid turning our communities into totalitarian hell holes, in a misguided attempt to make them perfect and beautiful?

 

[ZiprHead]

Why did I know who the author of this thread was going to be before reading it?

 

[laughing dog]

Teacher killed in France school stabbing

The attack happened at Gambetta high school in the northern city of Arras at about 11:00 local time (09:00 GMT).
The attacker has been arrested and is now in custody.
Witnesses say he shouted "Allahu Akbar", or "God is greatest", during the attack. Visiting the school, President Emmanuel Macron condemned the "barbarity of Islamist terrorism".
Mr Macron called on French people to stay "united" in the face of the attack, to "not give in to terror or let anything divide us".
He said police had averted another attempted attack in another part of France.
The man killed was a French language teacher. Those injured were another teacher and a security guard.
Mr Macron said the teacher had "come forward to protect others and had without doubt saved many lives".
The attacker, named as 20-year-old Russian national Mohamed Mogouchkov, is of Chechen origin and known to the security services for his involvement with Islamist extremism, according to police.

Why are people who are "known to security services for [..] involvement with Islamist extremism" not deported from Europe? That reminds me of the old "security monitor" commercials.

There is more:
Suspect in French teacher’s slaying was held for questioning the day before attack, minister says

A man of Chechen origin who was under surveillance by French security services over suspected Islamic radicalization stabbed a teacher to death at his former high school and critically wounded three other people Friday in northern France, authorities said.
The attack was being investigated by anti-terror prosecutors amid soaring global tensions over the war between Israel and Hamas. It also happened almost three years after another teacher, Samuel Paty, was beheaded by a radicalized Chechen near a Paris area school.

They really dropped the ball on that one, did they?

Maybe. Then again did it even occur to you that the questioning may have prompted the attack?

 

[Derec]

Maybe. Then again did it even occur to you that the questioning may have prompted the attack?

Typical leftist victim-blaming.

 

[Derec]

That would be because abolishing the rule of law and allowing deportations on the basis of suspicion, rather than proof, would be far worse than accepting that occasional violent crimes will occur.

Not abolishing the rule of law. Amending the law so that migrants who are Islamic extremists can be deported without a gazillion endless appeals. A government should not have to wait until an Islamist commits a crime like murder before he gets deported.

Do you have any other mind-bogglingly ill-conceived and absurdly simplistic suggestions, or can the grown-ups get on with trying to avoid turning our communities into totalitarian hell holes, in a misguided attempt to make them perfect and beautiful?

This mass migration bullshit is certainly not making western societies better places to live. Quite the contrary.
Rule of law should not be a suicide pact.

 

[laughing dog]

Maybe. Then again did it even occur to you that the questioning may have prompted the attack?

Typical leftist victim-blaming.

You blamed the security service for failing to prevent the attack. Was that also typical leftists victim blaming or just plain knee jerk stupidity?

 

[Derec]

You blamed the security service for failing to prevent the attack. Was that also typical leftists victim blaming or just plain knee jerk stupidity?

I said they dropped the ball. And they did.
Europe really needs to rethink their attitude toward Islamist extremists they foolishly let immigrate.

 

[laughing dog]

You blamed the security service for failing to prevent the attack. Was that also typical leftists victim blaming or just plain knee jerk stupidity?

I said they dropped the ball. And they did.

If one thinks people should be detained indefinitely on the suspicion they might commit a violent crime, then the ball was definitely dropped in that authoritarian dystopia you envision.

Europe really needs to rethink their attitude toward Islamist extremists they foolishly let immigrate.

Perhaps you should help them develop a fool proof method for identifying a priori these potential menaces to society. Just remember Europe needs immigrants to maintain their economies, since the continent native population growth is below the replacement rate.

 

[Derec]

If one thinks people should be detained indefinitely on the suspicion they might commit a violent crime, then the ball was definitely dropped in that authoritarian dystopia you envision.

I never said "detained indefinitely". I said that he should have been deported once authorities found out about his Islamist extremism.
There is no absolute right to migrating into the EU, and authorities should not want until he actually commits a violent crime to spring into action.

Perhaps you should help them develop a fool proof method for identifying a priori these potential menaces to society.

Nothing is "fool proof". But not letting Islamist migrants stay would be a good start.

Just remember Europe needs immigrants to maintain their economies, since the continent native population growth is below the replacement rate.

Not all immigrants are alike. Not all immigrants benefit the countries they immigrate into. EU (as well as US, Canada etc.) need to be more selective in what immigrants they accept. "Showed up at the border" should not be the chief selection criterion.

 

[bilby]

Maybe. Then again did it even occur to you that the questioning may have prompted the attack?

Typical leftist victim-blaming.

Wait, are you suggesting that the police were somehow the victims here?

[removed]

 

[barbos]

Why are people who are "known to security services for [..] involvement with Islamist extremism" not deported from Europe?

Deported to where? To Evil Russia? It's not a good time for sending "freedom" fighters there.
Besides, the guy was probably born in France. Sorry man, you supported these people in order to destroy Russia, now you deal with it yourself.

 

[bilby]

Not abolishing the rule of law. Amending the law so that migrants who are Islamic extremists can be deported without a gazillion endless appeals. A government should not have to wait until an Islamist commits a crime like murder before he gets deported.

How do you propose to prove that a person who has yet to commit a crime is an Islamic extremist; And how would such a law conform with the idea of freedom of religion?

Also, would your proposal cover only those suspected of possibly being Islamic extremists, or would other kinds of extremist also be covered by your new laws?

How would you write the law such that your posting history here would not get YOU deported, but would still capture those you want to deport before they have committed any acts of violence?

 

[Toni]

That would be because abolishing the rule of law and allowing deportations on the basis of suspicion, rather than proof, would be far worse than accepting that occasional violent crimes will occur.

Not abolishing the rule of law. Amending the law so that migrants who are Islamic extremists can be deported without a gazillion endless appeals. A government should not have to wait until an Islamist commits a crime like murder before he gets deported.

Do you have any other mind-bogglingly ill-conceived and absurdly simplistic suggestions, or can the grown-ups get on with trying to avoid turning our communities into totalitarian hell holes, in a misguided attempt to make them perfect and beautiful?

This mass migration bullshit is certainly not making western societies better places to live. Quite the contrary.
Rule of law should not be a suicide pact.

Who decides who is an ‘Islamic extremist?’ On what basis? What evidence?

Rule of law should be based on fact, not bigotry. Otherworldly se it’s not really just. There can be no peace without justice.

 

[laughing dog]

I never said "detained indefinitely". I said that he should have been deported once authorities found out about his Islamist extremism.
There is no absolute right to migrating into the EU, and authorities should not want until he actually commits a violent crime to spring into action.

WTF - deport people because of their ideology?

Nothing is "fool proof". But not letting Islamist migrants stay would be a good start.

Again you need to develop a fool proof method of distinguishing between “acceptable” and “ unacceptable”,

Not all immigrants are alike. Not all immigrants benefit the countries they immigrate into. EU (as well as US, Canada etc.) need to be more selective in what immigrants they accept. "Showed up at the border" should not be the chief selection criterion.

It is a necessary criterion.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Maybe. Then again did it even occur to you that the questioning may have prompted the attack?

Typical leftist victim-blaming.

You blamed the security service for failing to prevent the attack. Was that also typical leftists victim blaming or just plain knee jerk stupidity?

Suggesting that the questioning prompted the attack is a form of victim blaming. (The victim being France in this case.)

 

[bilby]

Suggesting that the questioning prompted the attack is a form of victim blaming. (The victim being France in this case.)

Did France get stabbed?

When your accusations depend upon a category error, they're probably unjust.

 

[TSwizzle]

I expect a few more of the trucks of peace towards the Christmas holidays that were quite popular with jihadists a few years ago.

 

[laughing dog]

Maybe. Then again did it even occur to you that the questioning may have prompted the attack?

Typical leftist victim-blaming.

You blamed the security service for failing to prevent the attack. Was that also typical leftists victim blaming or just plain knee jerk stupidity?

Suggesting that the questioning prompted the attack is a form of victim blaming. (The victim being France in this case.)

That is pure nonsense.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Suggesting that the questioning prompted the attack is a form of victim blaming. (The victim being France in this case.)

Did France get stabbed?

When your accusations depend upon a category error, they're probably unjust.

The claim is the French security services questioned someone which caused him to stab a French person. I see no category here, I just see victim blaming.