Left vs Center vs Right

[steve_bank]

On another thread somebody independent centrists fence sitters, Hardly.

Centrists can go with the left or right depending on the issue.

Mainstream media has tended to highlight criticism of the right over the left.

What sets the three groups apart?

As an independent centrist on issues I can go with the right or left depending on the issue.

Not likely, if a center right republican candidate appeared that wasrational who would actually work on the border I'd consoder voting for him or her.

Looking from the right the right.

The republicans who tried to shut down the government do have a point. We have been going through a continuing resolution kick the can don the road too long.

Republicans are right in that the left spends money on social programs as if there is no limit, and without any metrics to assess if the money spent actually does any good. Bernie Anders platform was everything should be free, meaning paid for by taxpayers. Biden triedo forgive student loads with a wave of the hand.

The left should say 'paid for by taxpayers' instead of 'free'.

Republicans are right in that the border situation is insane and out of control. The left paints anyone who wnats to Biden the border as racists and white supremacist. Illegal immigrants became undocumented immigrants.

Looking from the left left

Republicans generally oppose general rights of individuals they do not like and emphasizes religious rights.

Republicans spend ridiculous money on military.

Republicans led us into military adventurism in Iraq and Afghanistan which we are still deling with.

Republicans are unwillng to raise taxes on major corportios despite insane profits.

View from he center.

Both sides are equally ideological and use the same political tactics. Both sides in comgress have ideolgcal extremes.

 

[Spacetime Inhabitant]

If you are going to use the "both sides" concept, you first have to understand that in the USA the two sides are not left and right, but centre right (Democrats) and far right (Republicans).

 

[Derec]

If you are going to use the "both sides" concept, you first have to understand that in the USA the two sides are not left and right, but centre right (Democrats) and far right (Republicans).

Not the "Bernie Sanders and AOC would be in the CSU if they were in Germany" canard.
Although, I would not mind AOC donning a Dirndl at the Oktoberfest. Sanders in Lederhosen would also be entertaining.
O'zapft is!

 

[TV and credit cards]

If you are going to use the "both sides" concept, you first have to understand that in the USA the two sides are not left and right, but centre right (Democrats) and far right (Republicans).

Some years back I went through a fast food drive thru and ordered a small soda. The response was they didn't have small. They only had medium, large, and whatever the hell else they are calling the size beyond that. Of course there is a small. They simply chose not to call it that.
Of course there is a left and a right. Because it is not your version of left and right does not make it any less so.
What more likely does not exist is this "center" we speak of but has yet to be sighted in the wild. Some say it went extinct many years ago. Some say it still exists. Some claim they are it but when pressed for a voting record, they are exposed for the fraud they are. I suspect for many, as it did for me, exist on voter registration card only.

 

[Harry Bosch]

If you are going to use the "both sides" concept, you first have to understand that in the USA the two sides are not left and right, but centre right (Democrats) and far right (Republicans).

Steve lives in Seattle. This forum is at least 85% American posters. He's talking about Americans, republicans, democrats, our adventure in Afghanistan. Of course, he's talking about the left, right and center in America. Why would the different political spectrum of Belgium or the Congo have any bearing? Is it really surprising that other countries have a different political spectrum. Yes, most countries are to our left. But many are to our right (Poland, Hungary, Turkey, Russia, and etc.) So, lets just acknowledge the obvious, and move on. Sorry for the derail.

 

[Harry Bosch]

On another thread somebody independent centrists fence sitters, Hardly.

Centrists can go with the left or right depending on the issue.

Mainstream media has tended to highlight criticism of the right over the left.

What sets the three groups apart?

As an independent centrist on issues I can go with the right or left depending on the issue.

Not likely, if a center right republican candidate appeared that wasrational who would actually work on the border I'd consoder voting for him or her.

Looking from the right the right.

The republicans who tried to shut down the government do have a point. We have been going through a continuing resolution kick the can don the road too long.

Republicans are right in that the left spends money on social programs as if there is no limit, and without any metrics to assess if the money spent actually does any good. Bernie Anders platform was everything should be free, meaning paid for by taxpayers. Biden triedo forgive student loads with a wave of the hand.

The left should say 'paid for by taxpayers' instead of 'free'.

Republicans are right in that the border situation is insane and out of control. The left paints anyone who wnats to Biden the border as racists and white supremacist. Illegal immigrants became undocumented immigrants.

Looking from the left left

Republicans generally oppose general rights of individuals they do not like and emphasizes religious rights.

Republicans spend ridiculous money on military.

Republicans led us into military adventurism in Iraq and Afghanistan which we are still deling with.

Republicans are unwillng to raise taxes on major corportios despite insane profits.

View from he center.

Both sides are equally ideological and use the same political tactics. Both sides in comgress have ideolgcal extremes.

Like you, I consider myself in the middle. Like many, I'm fiscally conservative, liberal on social issues. I'm a capitalist pig. Support the police. Support military spending as I think that we'll be in conflict with dictatorships for many years unfortunately. I support lower taxes on corporations. Corporations don't use our roads. But their shareholders do. I'm not against the progressive tax system that we have. I think that our taxes on the rich are too low. I'd increase taxes on estates.

I don't disagree with you about the deficit. However, I think the republicans are totally wrong. If you want a lower deficit, either increase taxes or decrease spending - WHEN PASSING THE BUDGET. But to pass a budget, and then fail to pay the bills when they are due is crazy. As far as I'm concerned, anyone who dosn't write the check for bills that they have agreed to and are able to pay, is a dead beat. The republican shutdowns have actually increased the deficit. They have not lead to any lower spending. But they have lowered our country's credit score. Our deficits are higher today thanks to the shutdowns.

Finally, dems get all the blame for the border crisis. Why? Illegal immigration was higher when Trump and the republican congress were in charge. What has the republican congress done about it this year? (What the hell has the republican congress been doing about anything?)

But the biggest reason to not trust republicans today is their cultish love of Trump. Trump and his minions tried to steal the election. No way should he and/or any of his fellow cultists be allowed within 100 miles of Washington DC.

 

[rousseau]

If you are going to use the "both sides" concept, you first have to understand that in the USA the two sides are not left and right, but centre right (Democrats) and far right (Republicans).

What more likely does not exist is this "center" we speak of but has yet to be sighted in the wild. Some say it went extinct many years ago. Some say it still exists. Some claim they are it but when pressed for a voting record, they are exposed for the fraud they are. I suspect for many, as it did for me, exist on voter registration card only.

I'd call the silent majority centrists. They'll identify with a side, but for the most part they just want politicians to act like adults and be pragmatic. I'd call that centrist, even if these people don't realize it. Those who actually identify with the left or right with a degree of intensity are a smaller proportion of people. They're just the only ones we see being vocal about politics.

If pressed, I think most of the middle would respond with an enthusiastic 'yes' if you asked them if they'd prefer a responsible, sane opposition. I know I would.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

On another thread somebody independent centrists fence sitters, Hardly.

Centrists can go with the left or right depending on the issue.

Mainstream media has tended to highlight criticism of the right over the left.

What sets the three groups apart?

As an independent centrist on issues I can go with the right or left depending on the issue.

Not likely, if a center right republican candidate appeared that wasrational who would actually work on the border I'd consoder voting for him or her.

Looking from the right the right.

The republicans who tried to shut down the government do have a point. We have been going through a continuing resolution kick the can don the road too long.

Republicans are right in that the left spends money on social programs as if there is no limit, and without any metrics to assess if the money spent actually does any good. Bernie Anders platform was everything should be free, meaning paid for by taxpayers. Biden triedo forgive student loads with a wave of the hand.

The left should say 'paid for by taxpayers' instead of 'free'.

Republicans are right in that the border situation is insane and out of control.

"out of control"

I think the border between Jordan and Syria would be "out of control". Jordan absorbed an estimated >10% of their population, over 1 million worth of refugees from Syria. That'd be a country the size of Indiana.

The left paints anyone who wnats to Biden the border as racists and white supremacist. Illegal immigrants became undocumented immigrants.

I think you are doing a remarkable job of showing how the right-wing loves to use hyperbole and misinformation. Biden's policies against migrants isn't all that much different than Trumps. I mean, he isn't permanently separating children from families, but the wait on the other side of the border forever plan is still on going. So the hyperbole you are expressing implies that the alt-right misinformation is getting through.

Looking from the left left

Republicans generally oppose general rights of individuals they do not like and emphasizes religious rights.

Republicans spend ridiculous money on military.

Both parties fund the military quite well.

Republicans led us into military adventurism in Iraq and Afghanistan which we are still deling with.

The Republican base gave us George W Bush instead of John McCain (2000) and Donald Fucking Trump over just about anyone else (2016). The right-wing media sphere has poisoned the well so much, a very popular (and electable) stalwart conservative like John Kasich loses to Trump, much like how McCain, a war veteran and Senate maverick lost to a lightweight politician with a heavyweight campaign.

Republicans are unwillng to raise taxes on major corportios despite insane profits.

Republicans are starving the beast. They have no intention of doing anything but trying to sell off American assets to the private industry.

View from he center.

Both sides are equally ideological and use the same political tactics. Both sides in comgress have ideolgcal extremes.

The truth? Maybe in the 90s. The GOP has become ridiculously hyper partisan. The Democrats continue swerving to the center. Clinton and Obama weren't radical left-wing regimes. Biden isn't a socialist. When it comes to bigger legislation, the Democrats can get it done, meanwhile the Republicans try to unravel progress... but sometimes can't even manage that... such as the failure to repeal the ACA. Since the 80s, the GOP has general put on justices that were radical. The Democrats, not so much.

Yes, there are still politics involved, both parties play politics, but the GOP has become unvoteable since about 2008. This doesn't make the Democrats angels or perfect, but it makes them the only game in town.

 

[jonatha]

Corporations don't use our roads. But their shareholders do.

This suggests you think every big rig trucker owns shares in his or her employer...

 

[Gospel]

If you are going to use the "both sides" concept, you first have to understand that in the USA the two sides are not left and right, but centre right (Democrats) and far right (Republicans).

Not the "Bernie Sanders and AOC would be in the CSU if they were in Germany" canard.
Although, I would not mind AOC donning a Dirndl at the Oktoberfest. Sanders in Lederhosen would also be entertaining.
O'zapft is!

I can see Bernie and AOC in a polka band having a good ole time. Prost!

 

[Harry Bosch]

Corporations don't use our roads. But their shareholders do.

This suggests you think every big rig trucker owns shares in his or her employer...

You missed my point. I was saying that taxes should be increased on upper earners. BTW: there are many truckers who some shares in their company. Many are self owned. But regardless, I would not favor increasing taxes on truck drivers.

 

[Politesse]

But the biggest reason to not trust republicans today is their cultish love of Trump. Trump and his minions tried to steal the election. No way should he and/or any of his fellow cultists be allowed within 100 miles of Washington DC.

You know, it's not even Trump's personality cult that bothers me. There have been popular political candidates before, and it doesn't break the system. What worries me is his Trumpists are very willing to break the system of law itself. Are trying to, even.

I can imagine having a "centrist" position relative to, say, Ilhan Omar and Mitch McConnell on politics. List out their views on a spreadsheet, and you can no doubt imagine a "central" position relative to theirs on just about any issue. But when you have shit going on like Matt Gaetz pointing a metaphorical gun at the House and daring it to defy his power, or Marjorie Taylor Greene openly participating in a violent coup attempt that came to non-metaphorical guns and six dead... where's the "center" relative to such individuals and actions? I'm okay having a vote on whether or not to extend marriage rights to gay people. We recently had just such a vote, and as I expected, rationality won out in the discursive environment of a Congressional vote. But I would not okay with a minority party simply imposing a repressive law against homosexual marriage without discussion, with no checks and balances, with no meaningful judicial review. To be non-committal in your feelings on an undemocratic action is not "centrism", it crosses the line into "collaboration". Something the Republican Party itself needs to realize, and soon, if they don't want their entire Party thrown out with the bathwater whenever the American people finally wake up and realize they don't actually want to live under an authoritarian government.

There was a time when I would consider voting for a Republican if they were a decent sort, and indeed have done. But that door has closed, and must remain closed until they regain some semblance of control over their party.

 

[Elixir]

MDainstream media has tended to highlight criticism of the right over the left.

So.. FOX isn't mainstream? Nor is OAN or NewsMax?
If you think that, I have news for you: THEY ARE ALL THAT IS EVER SEEN BY SOME 40% of Americans.
It doesn't get any more mainstream than that.

There was a time when I would consider voting for a Republican if they were a decent sort, and indeed have done. But that door has closed, and must remain closed until they regain some semblance of control over their party.

Ditto. That party and anyone still hanging on with it, are off my list until further notice - I don't care if they promise me the world, even if it's a plausible promise.

I don't disagree with you about the deficit. However, I think the republicans are totally wrong. If you want a lower deficit, either increase taxes or decrease spending - WHEN PASSING THE BUDGET. But to pass a budget, and then fail to pay the bills when they are due is crazy.

Thing is, Steve forgets that for all their bluster, Republicans will, given the chance, spend us into oblivion by giving away all your tax money to their donors, just like Trump did.
83% of Trump's $2,300,000,000,000.00 "tax break" went to the top 1%, on the way to INCREASING our deficit by more than $7,000,000,000,000.00 - an almost inconceivable sum, and the biggest theft in the history of America. And you want to trust them AGAIN???

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Corporations don't use our roads. But their shareholders do.

This suggests you think every big rig trucker owns shares in his or her employer...

You missed my point. I was saying that taxes should be increased on upper earners. BTW: there are many truckers who some shares in their company. Many are self owned. But regardless, I would not favor increasing taxes on truck drivers.

But corporations do use the roads, the owners, their workers, their suppliers. Everyone that isn't the Unabomber, utilizes the roads.

 

[Jarhyn]

MDainstream media has tended to highlight criticism of the right over the left.

So.. FOX isn't mainstream? Nor is OAN or NewsMax?
If you think that, I have news for you: THEY ARE ALL THAT IS EVER SEEN BY SOME 40% of Americans.
It doesn't get any more mainstream than that.

There was a time when I would consider voting for a Republican if they were a decent sort, and indeed have done. But that door has closed, and must remain closed until they regain some semblance of control over their party.

Ditto. That party and anyone still hanging on with it, are off my list until further notice - I don't care if they promise me the world, even if it's a plausible promise.

I don't disagree with you about the deficit. However, I think the republicans are totally wrong. If you want a lower deficit, either increase taxes or decrease spending - WHEN PASSING THE BUDGET. But to pass a budget, and then fail to pay the bills when they are due is crazy.

Thing is, Steve forgets that for all their bluster, Republicans will, given the chance, spend us into oblivion by giving away all your tax money to their donors, just like Trump did.
83% of Trump's $2,300,000,000,000.00 "tax break" went to the top 1%, on the way to INCREASING our deficit by more than $7,000,000,000,000.00 - an almost inconceivable sum, and the biggest theft in the history of America. And you want to trust them AGAIN???

But the abusive husband promised the last beating/rape was the last one, and he's a changed man now. We should trust him to be a good father and husband and quit spending his nights at the bar, because he promised with an extra "I swear" at the end that he didn't include the last time when he was lying.

 

[Toni]

On another thread somebody independent centrists fence sitters, Hardly.

Centrists can go with the left or right depending on the issue.

Mainstream media has tended to highlight criticism of the right over the left.

What sets the three groups apart?

As an independent centrist on issues I can go with the right or left depending on the issue.

Not likely, if a center right republican candidate appeared that wasrational who would actually work on the border I'd consoder voting for him or her.

Looking from the right the right.

The republicans who tried to shut down the government do have a point. We have been going through a continuing resolution kick the can don the road too long.

Republicans are right in that the left spends money on social programs as if there is no limit, and without any metrics to assess if the money spent actually does any good. Bernie Anders platform was everything should be free, meaning paid for by taxpayers. Biden triedo forgive student loads with a wave of the hand.

The left should say 'paid for by taxpayers' instead of 'free'.

Republicans are right in that the border situation is insane and out of control. The left paints anyone who wnats to Biden the border as racists and white supremacist. Illegal immigrants became undocumented immigrants.

Looking from the left left

Republicans generally oppose general rights of individuals they do not like and emphasizes religious rights.

Republicans spend ridiculous money on military.

Republicans led us into military adventurism in Iraq and Afghanistan which we are still deling with.

Republicans are unwillng to raise taxes on major corportios despite insane profits.

View from he center.

Both sides are equally ideological and use the same political tactics. Both sides in comgress have ideolgcal extremes.

Like you, I consider myself in the middle. Like many, I'm fiscally conservative, liberal on social issues. I'm a capitalist pig. Support the police. Support military spending as I think that we'll be in conflict with dictatorships for many years unfortunately. I support lower taxes on corporations. Corporations don't use our roads. But their shareholders do. I'm not against the progressive tax system that we have. I think that our taxes on the rich are too low. I'd increase taxes on estates.

I don't disagree with you about the deficit. However, I think the republicans are totally wrong. If you want a lower deficit, either increase taxes or decrease spending - WHEN PASSING THE BUDGET. But to pass a budget, and then fail to pay the bills when they are due is crazy. As far as I'm concerned, anyone who dosn't write the check for bills that they have agreed to and are able to pay, is a dead beat. The republican shutdowns have actually increased the deficit. They have not lead to any lower spending. But they have lowered our country's credit score. Our deficits are higher today thanks to the shutdowns.

Finally, dems get all the blame for the border crisis. Why? Illegal immigration was higher when Trump and the republican congress were in charge. What has the republican congress done about it this year? (What the hell has the republican congress been doing about anything?)

But the biggest reason to not trust republicans today is their cultish love of Trump. Trump and his minions tried to steal the election. No way should he and/or any of his fellow cultists be allowed within 100 miles of Washington DC.

Corporations definitely use our roads. How do they get their products to market or their workers to/from the office and how do their suppliers get the supplies to the corporations? Corporations rely on all the same infrastructure as private citizens do.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I don't disagree with you about the deficit. However, I think the republicans are totally wrong. If you want a lower deficit, either increase taxes or decrease spending - WHEN PASSING THE BUDGET. But to pass a budget, and then fail to pay the bills when they are due is crazy. As far as I'm concerned, anyone who dosn't write the check for bills that they have agreed to and are able to pay, is a dead beat. The republican shutdowns have actually increased the deficit. They have not lead to any lower spending. But they have lowered our country's credit score. Our deficits are higher today thanks to the shutdowns.

This one isn't about paying the bills. It's a refusal to pass a budget without their extremism in it.

But the biggest reason to not trust republicans today is their cultish love of Trump. Trump and his minions tried to steal the election. No way should he and/or any of his fellow cultists be allowed within 100 miles of Washington DC.

This. While the exact mechanism of 1/6 surprised me it didn't surprise me at all that they tried a palace coup.