What does this have to do with the thread topic?
How would you recognize someone who doesn't love authoritarianism, cling to power, invoke hobgoblins?
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Left-wing authoritarianism exists and is a key predictor of psychological and behavioral outcomes
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Nailed it.
TomC
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lpetrich
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I've created a new thread for those posts: Assessing Trump's Nightmare Presidency
I think that that is a problem for the Left, and it's a problem that many left-wingers don't seem to have adequately addressed. How does one rule without acting like what one opposed? That's what happened with Communism.
You also don't seem to know what authoritarianism actually is. Maybe that's why you've been posting a bunch of irrelevant commentary in this thread
Both sides are not the same, and whatever weaknesses you think exist on the left (and they clearly do), I will worry about when actual authoritarians are not eroding voter rights, women's rights, and civil rights as we speak through GOP state legislatures and an SC stacked with right wing religious zealots.
No, it isn't. Authoritarianism has a definition and it is not "polices and laws you don't like," and authoritarians are not "people you don't like," or "people who are adamant/zealous/whatever other bad behavior you want to insert here."
Authoritarian cults and governments find their way to power through a population that is easy to manipulate because of their indoctrination in authority worship, conformity, tendency toward tribalism and prejudice, and lack of critical thinking (and more).
Every human being is riddled with cognitive weaknesses that allow even the best among us to be fooled from time to time. We have to learn to mitigate those pitfalls of perception to protect ourselves from con men and just all around stupid choices and conclusions.
Given that reality that we all share, how would you tell if your own ideological group were corrupted by con men (or "false prophets" if you like)? How would you protect yourself and your community from being manipulated by lies and hijacking your prejudices?
Elixir
Made in America
As long as it lasts let us revel in the awesome POWER of demanding cheap paper mouth and nose covers!
The nerve of us lefties, trying to suppress a virus that is killing millions of people all over the world, while those patriotic, free-dumb loving right wingers do all they can to keep the virus reservoir robust and mutating...
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Some of the posts in this thread have gotten personal. I'm sorry to say I have done so myself and I apologise for this. So lets try to keep this discussion based on the thread subject and not on personalities. Thanks.
I don't know any such thing, Angry Floof. Your rebuttal contains what I can only fairly describe as multiple false statements.
Tell us again what this thread is about then.
lpetrich
Contributor
U.S. Conservatives Are Uniquely Inclined Toward Right-Wing Authoritariaanism Compared to Western Peers - "Global Morning Consult data reveals a distinctive authoritarian bent in the American right"
Low-RWA people were very likely to be left-wingers (70%) and very unlikely to be right-wingers (4%). High-RWA people were the reverse, 4% left-wing and 62% right-wing.
There wasn't much difference by race or education, though non-college-educated people tended to be more of high-RWA people (76%) than the average (69%) or low-RWA people (66%).
High-RWA people were more likely to live in rural communities than the average of the population.
So the Republican base tends to be high-RWA.
Also polled: Germany, France, Spain, and Italy.
Women were a little less likely to be high-RWA than men. High-RWA people have much fewer people under 45 than the average or low RWA (24% as opposed to low-RWA 56% and all-population 46%)
Low-RWA people were very likely to be left-wingers (70%) and very unlikely to be right-wingers (4%). High-RWA people were the reverse, 4% left-wing and 62% right-wing.
There wasn't much difference by race or education, though non-college-educated people tended to be more of high-RWA people (76%) than the average (69%) or low-RWA people (66%).
High-RWA people were more likely to live in rural communities than the average of the population.
So the Republican base tends to be high-RWA.
Don2 (Don1 Revised)
Contributor
Right....well, if you throw a LWA into water, they will float. If they fall to the bottom and drown, they're innocent.
lpetrich
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Some issues have a hierarchy of Right-leaning < High-RWA < Left-leaning < Low-RWA
Were the Jan 6 Capitol attackers protecting or undermining the US Gov't? Don't know / no opinion is in between.
Joe Biden won the election due to widespread voter fraud. Yes / DK / No
These issues have Right-leaning and high-RWA very close, and also left-leaning and low-RWA very close.
Masks are necessary to stop the spread of COVID-19. Yes / DK / No
Were the Jan 6 Capitol attackers protecting or undermining the US Gov't? Don't know / no opinion is in between.
- R-l - 34% 21% 46%
- H-R - 26% 22% 52%
- L-l - 5% 6% 89%
- L-R - 3% 4% 93%
Joe Biden won the election due to widespread voter fraud. Yes / DK / No
- R-l - 64% 5% 30%
- H-R - 55% 6% 38%
- L-l - 17% 5% 79%
- L-R - 7% 4% 89%
- R-l - 36% 10% 56%
- H-R - 23% 15% 61%
- L-l - 12% 2% 86%
- L-R - 2% 2% 96%
These issues have Right-leaning and high-RWA very close, and also left-leaning and low-RWA very close.
Masks are necessary to stop the spread of COVID-19. Yes / DK / No
- L-R - 92% 1% 7%
- L-l - 90% 4% 6%
- R-l - 69% 1% 30%
- H-R - 67% 1% 32%
- L-R - 87% 3% 10%
- L-l - 86% 5% 9%
- R-l - 78% 2% 20%
- H-R - 72% 5% 23%
lpetrich
Contributor
I checked on Google Scholar and I found:
The first hit: The Myth of Left-Wing Authoritarianism on JSTOR from 1980. Fortunately, s.g.c lists plenty of more recent articles.
Finding the Loch Ness Monster: Left‐Wing Authoritarianism in the United States - Conway - 2018 - Political Psychology - Wiley Online Library - PDF version: Finding the Loch Ness Monster: Left‐Wing Authoritarianism in the United States - LWA_2018-Political_Psychology-1.pdf
That article's LWA scale seems like a mirror image of BA's RWA scale. Its first statement is "Our country desperately needs a mighty and liberal leader who will do what has to be done to destroy the radical traditional ways of doing things that are ruining us."
- "right-wing authoritarianism" - 15,200 hits
- "left-wing authoritarianism" - 779 hits
The first hit: The Myth of Left-Wing Authoritarianism on JSTOR from 1980. Fortunately, s.g.c lists plenty of more recent articles.
Finding the Loch Ness Monster: Left‐Wing Authoritarianism in the United States - Conway - 2018 - Political Psychology - Wiley Online Library - PDF version: Finding the Loch Ness Monster: Left‐Wing Authoritarianism in the United States - LWA_2018-Political_Psychology-1.pdf
That article's LWA scale seems like a mirror image of BA's RWA scale. Its first statement is "Our country desperately needs a mighty and liberal leader who will do what has to be done to destroy the radical traditional ways of doing things that are ruining us."
Given everything people in the UK, Australia, Europe, and Canada say about religion in their countries, this makes sense. Religion ranges from "not a big deal" to "it's rude to mention it."
In the U.S., religion is clearly far more important socially and politically than in any of those countries, and Christianity dominates so its authoritarian nature is going to influence society and government. Authority (God, Jesus, pastor, father) tops the framework, don't question authority, obey the authority, condemnation for disobedience, conform or be kicked out/sent to hell/killed (depending on degree of extremism across society), authority dictates everything, everyone outside the group will lie/harm, their authority figures are corrupt, us vs. them (saved vs. unsaved, believer vs. non), sense of moral superiority, etc.
If it's not obvious to you that Christianity gives rise to authoritarianism if not held in check by wider society shaming religious expression, then you might be a right wing authoritarian follower.
Lies, LIES, I tell you! I'll pray for you! That is what used to be called fundamentalist Christianity, but it's now mainstream. Of course there are some sects and strains of Christianity that are not as conducive to authoritarianism, but those are generally considered heretical or false prophets by mainstream Christians IF those Christians actually know about those other sects in the first place.
Exposure to other cultures, different people, other ways of thinking and living, living in cities, diversity, non-conformity, traditions challenged, etc., tend to make people more open to differences because the people who are different are in their vicinity and not abstractions mainly just seen on TV or heard about through conservative voices.
That's why right wing authoritarian parents are so scared of "liberal indoctrination" from just letting their kids see and experience the world without being under their parents' control and learning to question instead of being an obedience machine.
Yep.
Don2 (Don1 Revised)
Contributor
My bigger problem remains the political compass. We see that Americans are typically along a diagonal from pro-liberty,economic left to anti-liberty,pro-economic right...with some users here in bottom right quadrant. With respect to left extremists, they are close to anarchists, which are extreme anti-authoritarian. So, like when the study authors validate their findings with "political violence," they used August 2020 protests as a measure. What was that...overturning police cars? Pulling down a statue of Nathan Bedford Forrest? I don't know...but anti police protests and left protests are generally not pro-authoritarian. Just like left extremists aren't generally. The dimension of anti-Hierarchical Aggression also sounds like it can sometimes be anti-Authoritarian Speech. There are some LWAs in the world, like in China or North Korea, those individuals should be studied along with US Republicans to look at the commonality of Authoritarianism.
Yes. That authority centered thinking IS right wing mentality, and that is just the kind of question you would ask someone to tease out right wing mentality, but you just won't find a lot of leftists agreeing to that.
We just don't think that way. Liberal minds don't seek out an authority figure to take control and beat up all those people we hate. That's why RWAs are rare among leftists. Our sense of self is based in feeling accepted by our families and then our communities and not in whether an authority figure is pleased with us or in how well we fight off outsiders. This is very fundamental to the social and political framework of right wing minds. To the left, if you exist, you should be accounted for and fed and have access to the safety and comfort of the group. To the right, if the authority figures or authoritative texts say you should be imprisoned or beat up or killed, then you damn well should be.
That world view is not conducive to the peace and well being of a tribe of seven billion. Cooperation and compassion are our survival tools now, not competition and aggression and "might is right" mentality.
I agree that they should be studied closely, and I would also question whether those "left wing" authoritarians are left wing at all or just using humane ideas as a veneer over deeply authoritarian and inhumane regimes that not only adhere to tradition, hierarchical social and political structures, and power consolidated under one or a few leaders, but so rigidly and extreme in this that they are arguably some of the sickest and most inhumane societies in human history.
If you think any of that represents liberal thinking at all and is not extremely right wing, I have a bridge to sell you.
lpetrich
Contributor
The OP refers to this paper: PsyArXiv Preprints | Clarifying the Structure and Nature of Left-Wing Authoritarianism
"Yet the Weathermen were hardly alone. From Maoist China to the Khmer Rouge (and perhaps even the French Reign of Terror) history abounds with examples of LWA at the broader societal level, rendering psychology’s inability to identify left-wing authoritarians puzzling."
LWA's may not be exactly parallel to RWA's.
The article starts by introducing a good example of left-wing authoritarianism.
Then what right-wing authoritarianism is: (a) obedience and deference to established authorities, (b) adherence to socially conservative norms, and (c) strong approval of punitive and coercive social control.
"Yet the Weathermen were hardly alone. From Maoist China to the Khmer Rouge (and perhaps even the French Reign of Terror) history abounds with examples of LWA at the broader societal level, rendering psychology’s inability to identify left-wing authoritarians puzzling."
LWA's may not be exactly parallel to RWA's.
Thus, supporters of existing left-wing regimes may be psychologically RWA's, and opponents of such regimes may be psychologically LWA's.
lpetrich
Contributor
The researchers recruited many of their subjects online, thus avoiding a common demographic problem in psychology research: drawing one's subjects from undergraduate students at major research universities. That may have other problems with how representative it is, however.
"We hypothesized that left- and right-wing authoritarianism are not mirror images but that they share a yet-unknown constellation of traits that might be considered the psychological “core” of authoritarianism." Seems like good research, and more than right-wingers projecting what they are criticized for onto the Left.
"We predicted that individuals high in LWA are generally dogmatic, hostile towards the present hierarchy, prejudiced and punitive towards perceived enemies, disposed towards moral absolutism, and tolerant of political violence."
They found these indicators:
Political ideology, RWA, Social Dominance Orientation (Dominance, Egalitarianism), Dogmatism, Political Intolerance, Personality (HEXACO: Honesty-Humility, Emotionality, Extraversion, Agreeableness, Conscientiousness, and Openness to Experience -- Big Five + HH), Need for Cognitive Closure, Belief in Conspiracy Theories, Belief in Determinsm (Fatalism: "destiny" "fate", Scientific: material causes outside of the self). Emotional Political Polarization, Intellectual Humility, General Intelligence, Confirmatory Thinking, Reflectivity, Political Compasses, Objectivism (not Randism but tendencies to rely on empirical information and rational considerations when making decisions), Social Vigilantism, Belief in Certain Knowledge, Extreme Partisanship, Free Speech Suppression, Belief in a Dangerous World, Worldviews.
"We hypothesized that left- and right-wing authoritarianism are not mirror images but that they share a yet-unknown constellation of traits that might be considered the psychological “core” of authoritarianism." Seems like good research, and more than right-wingers projecting what they are criticized for onto the Left.
"We predicted that individuals high in LWA are generally dogmatic, hostile towards the present hierarchy, prejudiced and punitive towards perceived enemies, disposed towards moral absolutism, and tolerant of political violence."
They found these indicators:
- Anti-Hierarchical Aggression: "The rich should be stripped of their belongings and status."
- Anti-conventionalism: "Deep down, just about all conservatives are racist, sexist, and homophobic."
- Top-down Censorship: "I should have the right not to be exposed to offensive views."
Political ideology, RWA, Social Dominance Orientation (Dominance, Egalitarianism), Dogmatism, Political Intolerance, Personality (HEXACO: Honesty-Humility, Emotionality, Extraversion, Agreeableness, Conscientiousness, and Openness to Experience -- Big Five + HH), Need for Cognitive Closure, Belief in Conspiracy Theories, Belief in Determinsm (Fatalism: "destiny" "fate", Scientific: material causes outside of the self). Emotional Political Polarization, Intellectual Humility, General Intelligence, Confirmatory Thinking, Reflectivity, Political Compasses, Objectivism (not Randism but tendencies to rely on empirical information and rational considerations when making decisions), Social Vigilantism, Belief in Certain Knowledge, Extreme Partisanship, Free Speech Suppression, Belief in a Dangerous World, Worldviews.
TSwizzle
Let's Go Brandon!!
And for some perverse reason they deny it.