Little Brother is watching you.

[Bronzeage]

In the novel 1984, George Orwell created a totalitarian society which was ruled by an unseen autocrat known as Big Brother. The cities were plastered in posters which portrayed an image of Big Brother:


We all envisioned a future where the government controlled security by tightly monitoring everyone, but it hasn't really turned out like that. This is despite thousands of cameras all over the place. The reality is not the people being watched constantly, it is authority under constant scrutiny.

Cell Phone Video Emerges That Refutes St. Louis Cops Version of Shooting

New reports of a police shooting which occurred in broad daylight on a city street told of a deranged man who charged officers with a knife in his hand.

According to Dotson, Powell walked toward the officer still sitting in the patrol car, and when he moved between three and four feet from the vehicle holding the knife, both officers fired their weapons, striking him. The officers are identified as a 25-year-old man with 3.2 years of service and a 31-year-old man with 2.6 years of service.

Dotson says police are checking to see if there is any surveillance video of the incident.

The knife was recovered at the scene.

Why don't policeman assume everything they do is being filmed?

 

[repoman]

I feel really bad for the guy who was shot, he must have been channeling a shitload of angst about his perception of the Michael Brown case.

I am not sure what point he was trying to make, but when people get revved up like that clear thinking goes out the window.

I think that the cops should not have lied, because what you did see in the video would probably acquit them. But to say that he was coming at them with a raised knife is so out of the realm of possible mis-recollection they should be crucified for that lie.

The lie is why they should both be stripped of their badges.

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Ok, I think that maybe I am wrong about my first reading of this. Knife in an overhand grip means handle at the thumb and blade at the pinky. This does not mean knife raised overhead.

Perhaps others have misread this as well.

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The video on youtube goes up to 1080p

 

[Bronzeage]

I feel really bad for the guy who was shot, he must have been channeling a shitload of angst about his perception of the Michael Brown case.

I am not sure what point he was trying to make, but when people get revved up like that clear thinking goes out the window.

I think that the cops should not have lied, because what you did see in the video would probably acquit them. But to say that he was coming at them with a raised knife is so out of the realm of possible mis-recollection they should be crucified for that lie.

The lie is why they should both be stripped of their badges.

----------------------------------

Ok, I think that maybe I am wrong about my first reading of this. Knife in an overhand grip means handle at the thumb and blade at the pinky. This does not mean knife raised overhead.

Perhaps others have misread this as well.

When a situation like this comes up, I'm reminded of the Gregory Peck movie, 12 O'clock High. Peck play an Army Air Corps general who must determine why a particular bomber squadron has higher loses than any other.; The commander is an old friend of his. It doesn't take long to realize the problem is the commander. He feels so much sympathy for his men and understands the stresses of their lives and jobs, he excuses them when they fuck up and gives them another chance. As a result, stupid mistakes and poor performances are getting people killed.

Problems like this don't start on the street. They start in the command structure.

 

[Derec]

The guy who shot the video is suffering from VVS, Vertical Video Syndrome.
As to the shooting, it still looks justified to me.

 

[repoman]

old training video for police.

 

[Derec]

Mythbusters did something similar:

 

[Bronzeage]

The guy who shot the video is suffering from VVS, Vertical Video Syndrome.
As to the shooting, it still looks justified to me.

I'm sure it does, if the display of a deadly weapon at any distance is justification for lethal force.

 

[Derec]

I'm sure it does, if the display of a deadly weapon at any distance is justification for lethal force.

Not "any distance" but a distance where a knife is definitely dangerous. Especially in the hands of someone with death wish.

 

[Deepak]

Why don't policeman assume everything they do is being filmed?

A perusal of Youtube or sites like Photographyisnotacrime.com would indicate that they're acutely aware of the increased level of recording that's happening (I wouldn't say everything though). They seem to be very opposed to the notion.

 

[Bronzeage]

I'm sure it does, if the display of a deadly weapon at any distance is justification for lethal force.

Not "any distance" but a distance where a knife is definitely dangerous. Especially in the hands of someone with death wish.

There is a difference between "justified" and "necessary." Why aren't police gunning down "open carry" advocates who show up on the street with AR-15s? If a knife is a dangerous weapon at 10 ft, what's to be said of a rifle that fires as fast as the trigger can be squeezed.

 

[Derec]

There is a difference between "justified" and "necessary." Why aren't police gunning down "open carry" advocates who show up on the street with AR-15s? If a knife is a dangerous weapon at 10 ft, what's to be said of a rifle that fires as fast as the trigger can be squeezed.

These are law abiding citizens, not perps that police are seeking to arrest because they stole stuff (two cans of coke in this case).
If an open carry advocate engaged in shoplifting and police officer ordered him to drop the gun they'd be shot too if they refused to comply.

 

[Crazy Eddie]

I feel really bad for the guy who was shot, he must have been channeling a shitload of angst about his perception of the Michael Brown case.

That or he was smoking chronic and thought he was superman (note the energy drinks).

I think that the cops should not have lied, because what you did see in the video would probably acquit them. But to say that he was coming at them with a raised knife is so out of the realm of possible mis-recollection they should be crucified for that lie.

As has become a pattern for police officers these days: they saw a black man using aggressive body language and appearing to be armed, moving in their general direction. They panicked, and shot him down like a rabid dog.

 

[Jayjay]

What kind of knife was it?

 

[Shadowy Man]

The real question is whether there's any middle ground between a police officer having to let a man with a knife stab him to death and the police officer emptying his gun into the man. Does anyone here seriously believe that there wasn't another option? Do you think mace to the face of the guy with the knife wouldn't have at least slowed him down enough for the officers to subdue him? There were two officers -- they couldn't have figure out a way to subdue him without using 10 bullets to his torso? How about ten bullets in the legs and feet? At least one should have hit and seriously slowed his advance. I'm just astounded by the number of people who feel that the police have no responsibility at all for figuring out how to not apply a death sentence for the crime of threatening an officer.

Look at the following link, which gives information about a burglary suspect in St. Louis who was subdued without gunfire, even though he assaulted both police officers, breaking the hand of one of them:

http://www.kmov.com/news/crime/Poli...ans-basement-assaults-officers-271009211.html

He is facing charges of felony assault and trespassing. Should I assume then, using the logic applied in these shootings, that he will face the death penalty for his assault of the officers?

 

[Crazy Eddie]

old training video for police.

Awesome video. Although I think there's something to be said for ever-so-slightly missing the point:
"Don't depend on the gun."

I'm thinking that instead of spending billions of dollars on APCs and assault rifles, police departments ought to start investing in krav maga lessons.

 

[repoman]

That or he was smoking chronic and thought he was superman (note the energy drinks).

I think that the cops should not have lied, because what you did see in the video would probably acquit them. But to say that he was coming at them with a raised knife is so out of the realm of possible mis-recollection they should be crucified for that lie.

As has become a pattern for police officers these days: they saw a black man using aggressive body language and appearing to be armed, moving in their general direction. They panicked, and shot him down like a rabid dog.

I change my stance that they were lying about that detail since I confused overhand grip with overhead.

The

 

[Jayjay]

I'm no gun expert, but every time I've heard someone describe proper fire arm usage by police or anyone they say to shoot at the center of mass. I don't think that shooting at the perps' legs to incapacitate is in the manual or their training.

One thing that strikes me is that the cops pull their guns out first, before the guy pulls the knife from his pocket. Ok maybe it was threatening to keep his hand in his pocket like that, but maybe the cops could have defused the situation by not brandishing their weapons as soon as they got off the car. Maybe try talking to the guy first?

 

[Crazy Eddie]

That or he was smoking chronic and thought he was superman (note the energy drinks).


As has become a pattern for police officers these days: they saw a black man using aggressive body language and appearing to be armed, moving in their general direction. They panicked, and shot him down like a rabid dog.

I change my stance that they were lying about that detail since I confused overhand grip with overhead.

Doesn't change the fact that they lied about the DISTANCE, nor the fact that they had their guns drawn from the moment they stepped out of their car.

 

[Bronzeage]

There is a difference between "justified" and "necessary." Why aren't police gunning down "open carry" advocates who show up on the street with AR-15s? If a knife is a dangerous weapon at 10 ft, what's to be said of a rifle that fires as fast as the trigger can be squeezed.

These are law abiding citizens, not perps that police are seeking to arrest because they stole stuff (two cans of coke in this case).
If an open carry advocate engaged in shoplifting and police officer ordered him to drop the gun they'd be shot too if they refused to comply.

That's assuming a lot of information. Does the fact he is a suspected shoplifter change the situation? The police arrive and confront a man in the parking lot. Except for their radio call, they can't be certain this is the reported shoplifter.

A man was killed in a Walmart because he was carrying a BB gun. There had been no report of a theft or other crime.

 

[Crazy Eddie]

These are law abiding citizens, not perps that police are seeking to arrest because they stole stuff (two cans of coke in this case).
If an open carry advocate engaged in shoplifting and police officer ordered him to drop the gun they'd be shot too if they refused to comply.

That's assuming a lot of information. Does the fact he is a suspected shoplifter change the situation? The police arrive and confront a man in the parking lot. Except for their radio call, they can't be certain this is the reported shoplifter.

A man was killed in a Walmart because he was carrying a BB gun. There had been no report of a theft or other crime.

This is an excellent point too. From the video, they drove up on the scene and saw this guy standing there, exited the car with their weapons drawn. They had no idea who he was or what he was doing, only that he was acting erratically and seemed to be armed with a knife.

It's obvious they gunned him down in fear for their own lives. But at that moment, they weren't acting as police officers, they acting as a couple of frightened people with guns.