Looking for best refutation of the "finely tuned universe"

[NobleSavage]

I've read several. I'm looking for one to to explain to someone else. Thanks. Links appreciated.

 

[Sarpedon]

The best one was from Douglas Adams: A puddle was thinking one day about how well the hole it was in was fine tuned to the same exact shape as the puddle. This led the puddle to believe that the universe was designed for it specifically. Then the puddle dried up.

Also, from Ambrose Bierce: "The Earth, Defined: A planet, which is 75% ocean, which was specially created by God for Man, who has no gills."

 

[none]

I've read several. I'm looking for one to to explain to someone else. Thanks. Links appreciated.

Intelligent Design argument, it claims life didn't come from the environment but from a designer... Finely tuned Universe claims life came from the environment not a designer...
hope that helps...

 

[skepticalbip]

I don’t know what you mean by refutation. If you mean that you want to refute a creationist claiming that goddidit just for us then you could tell them that, no, the universe is what it is. We evolved to best take advantage of it… But our evolution is only helpful here on Earth in an extremely small part of the universe where we evolved. Any other place in this unbelievably expansive universe and we would die almost instantly. So, the universe wasn't tuned for us, evolution tuned us to fit into our environment here on Earth. If we had been somewhere else then we would have evolved to fit there.

However, if you want to refute the fact that if any of several physical constants were different then the universe would be different, then that would be a loosing battle.

 

[GenesisNemesis]

99% of the Universe is inhospitable. That's probably the best argument.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

If the universe is so finely tuned for life, then why is my grandfather dead? I loved that man. Fuck you for saying that it's fine tuned, you insensitive bastard.

Then find a way to compare them to Hitler.

Logic, reason and well structured intelligent answers aren't going to help you and will just fall upon deaf ears, so have some fun and go in the completely opposite direction.

 

[skepticalbip]

99% of the Universe is inhospitable. That's probably the best argument.

Almost the entire universe is deadly, not just inhospitable. Most of the Earth is inhospitable unless we build an environment there to live in other than what nature provides. I can't tread water for very long and it's damn tough to live in sub-freezing temperatures very long without a heated living space.

 

[Juma]

However, if you want to refute the fact that if any of several physical constants were different then the universe would be different, then that would be a loosing battle.

No, that is easy: if the physical constants didnt result in a universe that could harbour intelligent beings then that question wouldnt be asked.

 

[skepticalbip]

However, if you want to refute the fact that if any of several physical constants were different then the universe would be different, then that would be a loosing battle.

No, that is easy: if the physical constants didnt result in a universe that could harbour intelligent beings then that question wouldnt be asked.

You are right.

 

[untermensche]

It's really a god in the gaps argument.

Theists have been pushed back beyond the Big Bang. Everything after the Big Bang is where science steps in and religion explains nothing.

We don't understand yet how a universe acquires it's "tuning". To think some invisible white bearded man did it is insanity.

But the Theist can cling to this gap with all their might. Something is not explained.

It is the work of their god then. End of discussion.

Of course the Theist wouldn't know about the "tuning" without science. Why does their god keep so much knowledge from them?

 

[DBT]

Only a Universe that is amenable to life holds the possibility for the existence of life. Had the universe been different in terms of chemistry, we would not be here now. This doesn't say anything about a Creator, just that our universe is amenable to life. At least for one planet that we know of, but maybe more.

 

[steve_bnk]

Easy.

1. Catastrophic asteroid strikes.
2. Earthquakes.
3. Hurricanes.
4. Tornados.
5. Birth defects.


If the universe is supposed to be fine tuned can I sue the tuner for gross negligence and depraved indifference?

 

[Kharakov]

Easy.

1. Catastrophic asteroid strikes.
2. Earthquakes.
3. Hurricanes.
4. Tornados.
5. Birth defects.


If the universe is supposed to be fine tuned can I sue the tuner for gross negligence and depraved indifference?

Sure, sounds fair. You certainly shouldn't help out with the effort to make things good for all of us. Don't lift a hand, just blame the one fine tuning the universe and complain. I like your work ethic, and acceptance that you have absolutely no responsibility to help out. Bravo!

 

[free radical]

I've read several. I'm looking for one to to explain to someone else. Thanks. Links appreciated.

Why bother,just bc this planet supports life doesn't prove any gods,,
Better question is why is there so much of the Universe that is absolutely Deadly and Inhospitable to us?
Even way too many places on earth are totally uninhabitable..why so much wasted space?

 

[James Brown]

What would a universe that was poorly tuned for life look like? Would it be filled with lots of deadly ways to kill living things? Would it be nearly completely inhospitable? Would it take billions of years for 'life' to be develop enough to be smugly pleased that everything was designed for its own benefit?

If a company released a product on the market that was as finely-tuned as the universe, it would be buried into oblivion with class-action lawsuits.

 

[Underseer]

[...]

Then find a way to compare them to Hitler.

[...]

Nazis believed in a finely-tuned universe, therefore believing in a finely-tuned universe will turn you into a Nazi and cause you to try to exterminate the Jews! Did I mention Nazis?

 

[untermensche]

Easy.

1. Catastrophic asteroid strikes.
2. Earthquakes.
3. Hurricanes.
4. Tornados.
5. Birth defects.


If the universe is supposed to be fine tuned can I sue the tuner for gross negligence and depraved indifference?

The universe is perfectly tuned. I have not been harmed by any of those.

Birth defects is kind of ambiguous though. We all have our defects.

 

[Keith&Co.]

Birth defects is kind of ambiguous though. We all have our defects.

First thing i thought of was parents standing over a crib in our NICU watching their baby die because it was born without a brain.
Second thing was the baby born with lungs outside of her chest.
A universe where the most innocent suffer that sort of thing, and the parents suffer along with it, after nine months of hope, there's not a whole lot of ambiguity there, to my mind. If the universe was designed, it was not designed towards any human standards.

 

[untermensche]

Birth defects is kind of ambiguous though. We all have our defects.

First thing i thought of was parents standing over a crib in our NICU watching their baby die because it was born without a brain.
Second thing was the baby born with lungs outside of her chest.
A universe where the most innocent suffer that sort of thing, and the parents suffer along with it, after nine months of hope, there's not a whole lot of ambiguity there, to my mind. If the universe was designed, it was not designed towards any human standards.

Just like the tornado where people may be ripped apart or crushed.

It hasn't hurt me.

All is perfectly tuned.

 

[Keith&Co.]

Just like the tornado where people may be ripped apart or crushed.

It hasn't hurt me.

All is perfectly tuned.

Good defense for Christains or other sociopaths, i suppose, but most evangelicals don't like to say it so expressly.