Luke Cage Trailer

[Mumbles]

Two things, Derec. First, Coates was very careful to center his reparations argument on people who had faced government discrimination, and who were still alive when he wrote his essay, so you're mischaracterizing him. And second, as Jayjay pointed out, I was referring to his writing on the Black Panther comics, not his long-form journalism.

I just realized that Pop's name is a Biggie Smalls reference ("It was my man Pop, from the barbershop." - Warning). And now back to the spoilers, since we're still not far out from release...

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I doubt that we'll see Misty Knight get her bionic arm very soon, unfortunately. The scene where Claire ties off her artery and discusses the possibility of her losing her arm is clearly a nod to the comic character, but the movies have tended to do their own thing, and the tv shows adapt and incorporate as they can. OTOH, we have seen Nick Fury and Loralie (and some minor characters from the movies) show up on Agents of SHIELD. Although now that I think about it, they did give Coulson that bionic hand, so they likely have a way of dealing with any needed effects...

Jayjay, I have to admit, when they took down the Biggie painting and put up the replacement, my first thought was "...the fuck is that thing!" I just noticed the two crowns replacing one, and yeah, not a style I can appreciate much.

 

[Derec]

Two things, Derec. First, Coates was very careful to center his reparations argument on people who had faced government discrimination, and who were still alive when he wrote his essay, so you're mischaracterizing him. And second, as Jayjay pointed out, I was referring to his writing on the Black Panther comics, not his long-form journalism.

I read his "gibsmedat" article back when it came out, and I do not think he limited it to that, although it had been a few years since I read it. And I also recall him mischaracterizing so-called "redlining" which mostly had to do with certain zip codes being declared higher repayment risk because of change in housing values. I.e. a zip code with higher real estate price growth rate is, all things being equal, be a better repayment risk because even if the house has to go to foreclosure the bank is more likely to get more of the outstanding loan balance back.

Also, I do not think his comic book work can be separated from his advocacy non-fiction writing. Especially when he has a character named after Black Panthers, a murderous, racist organization which sought to overthrow the US government and replace it with a Maoist dictatorship. I mean, that would be almost like creating a comic book super hero named Klu Klux, who wears a white hood costume.

I just realized that Pop's name is a Biggie Smalls reference ("It was my man Pop, from the barbershop." - Warning).

You mean that rapper from the 90s?

 

[Derec]

As for missing Luke Cage, your loss.

Not missing much, according to what I have read here and also reviews by lefty rags like HuffPo. It seems yet another "white people are bad m'kay" political show. And as to your derec and accusation about "hobby horses", I did not bring #BLM into this thread, they were mentioned before I commented. If there is anybody's "hobby horse", it is the show runners who are bringing left-wing racial politics into a comic book show.

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The new Black Panther run written by Coates is also one of the best books Marvel has going right now. Derec wouldn't like it much, however, as it is set in the (fictional) African nation of Wakanda, and there are very few white people appearing in it.

I would not like it because it is named after a racist organization. That would be like having a white superhero named Klu Klux, who wears a white hood costume and lives in a fictional nation with very few black people.

 

[Derec]

Ignore him. It's just another one of those random "Oh yeah? Well you're the real racist because you're complaining about racism!" rants they use to deny their own racism to themselves.

No, he is the real racist because he accuses people of racism because they disagree with things like reparations and affirmative action, all the while claiming that blacks can't be racist by definition.

Also, as Derec pointed out, the author acknowledges that racism exists and still affects things in the world today, which according to racists makes him the "real racist."

No, the reason is that he named his character after a racist organization.

 

[KeepTalking]

Also, I do not think his comic book work can be separated from his advocacy non-fiction writing. Especially when he has a character named after Black Panthers, a murderous, racist organization which sought to overthrow the US government and replace it with a Maoist dictatorship. I mean, that would be almost like creating a comic book super hero named Klu Klux, who wears a white hood costume.

The new Black Panther run written by Coates is also one of the best books Marvel has going right now. Derec wouldn't like it much, however, as it is set in the (fictional) African nation of Wakanda, and there are very few white people appearing in it.

I would not like it because it is named after a racist organization.

Black Panther was first featured in a Fantastic Four comic in July 1966, which would mean that he was conceived of months before that. The character was created by Stan Lee and Jack Kirby, two very white guys. The Black Panther party was not organized until October 1966. These are things you should know before you start spouting off racist nonsense in this thread.

That would be like having a white superhero named Klu Klux, who wears a white hood costume and lives in a fictional nation with very few black people.

You mean like in most fictional media since forever? Movies, TV, and yes, even comics traditionally show us lily white characters in the background. What's wrong with showing a little reality now and then? Besides, my Mom told me there are a lot of black people in Africa.

 

[Mumbles]

Not missing much, according to what I have read here and also reviews by lefty rags like HuffPo. It seems yet another "white people are bad m'kay" political show. And as to your derec and accusation about "hobby horses", I did not bring #BLM into this thread, they were mentioned before I commented. If there is anybody's "hobby horse", it is the show runners who are bringing left-wing racial politics into a comic book show.

And here's why I don't recommend Luke Cage to you, and honestly don't care if you don't watch. You'd probably see it as white people being portrayed as bad. In truth, the show barely bothers with white people at all. And it doesn't care in the slightest if you don't get all of the cultural references that it treats as being as natural as the air the characters breathe.

As I said, the show was made for people like me, and everyone else is welcome to enjoy, or they can get angry about it.

 

[Underseer]

Not missing much, according to what I have read here and also reviews by lefty rags like HuffPo. It seems yet another "white people are bad m'kay" political show. And as to your derec and accusation about "hobby horses", I did not bring #BLM into this thread, they were mentioned before I commented. If there is anybody's "hobby horse", it is the show runners who are bringing left-wing racial politics into a comic book show.

And here's why I don't recommend Luke Cage to you, and honestly don't care if you don't watch. You'd probably see it as white people being portrayed as bad. In truth, the show barely bothers with white people at all. And it doesn't care in the slightest if you don't get all of the cultural references that it treats as being as natural as the air the characters breathe.

As I said, the show was made for people like me, and everyone else is welcome to enjoy, or they can get angry about it.

Luke Cage has a non-white protagonist, and you know how certain very sensitive, easily-triggered people react to that. Derec is smart enough to know that he should not watch things like this. I'm sure he's just here to let us know how much his feelings are hurt whenever non-whites are presented as anything other than cartoonish villains.

 

[marc]

For anyone interested in the books and authors mentioned in the series:

The Luke Cage syllabus

 

[Mumbles]

Hmmm. It's been a week. Time to drop hidden/spoilers yet?

 

[Mumbles]

Luke Cage has a non-white protagonist, and you know how certain very sensitive, easily-triggered people react to that. Derec is smart enough to know that he should not watch things like this. I'm sure he's just here to let us know how much his feelings are hurt whenever non-whites are presented as anything other than cartoonish villains.

Again, I really just don't care. If this show isn't for you, then that's it. There's a lot of just random references I can dig into, and let folks just decide how they work into the story.

If Derec misses out, then that's on him. I'll show up to explain random cultural references that youprobably didn't catch the first time

 

[Jayjay]

Not missing much, according to what I have read here and also reviews by lefty rags like HuffPo. It seems yet another "white people are bad m'kay" political show. And as to your derec and accusation about "hobby horses", I did not bring #BLM into this thread, they were mentioned before I commented. If there is anybody's "hobby horse", it is the show runners who are bringing left-wing racial politics into a comic book show.

It's still just entertainment. The commentary in the press is just the typical echo chamber nonsense that blows certain parts of the story way out of proportion. In-show, the handling of the ideas is actually pretty far from "left-wing racial politics" in my opinion. For one the cops aren't portrayed as villains, and one of the actual villains in the story is compared to Al Sharpton.

 

[Mumbles]

Not missing much, according to what I have read here and also reviews by lefty rags like HuffPo. It seems yet another "white people are bad m'kay" political show. And as to your derec and accusation about "hobby horses", I did not bring #BLM into this thread, they were mentioned before I commented. If there is anybody's "hobby horse", it is the show runners who are bringing left-wing racial politics into a comic book show.

It's still just entertainment. The commentary in the press is just the typical echo chamber nonsense that blows certain parts of the story way out of proportion. In-show, the handling of the ideas is actually pretty far from "left-wing racial politics" in my opinion. For one the cops aren't portrayed as villains, and one of the actual villains in the story is compared to Al Sharpton.

The funny part is that Luke Cage is actually a pretty conservative series. When you put aside any sense of race, it's not at all a story about how awful white people are or anything. Back to spoilers...

Show

Cage himself objects to being called "nigga" pretty early on. Pop's barbershop actually has a "swear jar" that people have to contribute to if they curse in the barbershop. And late in the series, it's the mostly black police who are portrayed as running roughshod over the population of Harlem, and the folks in Harlem fight back. Cage himself does knock out couple of cops, but he later offers to explain why he does so. There's an acknowledgement that good policing is very important - and also that what is going on is bad policing.

And then there's Misty Knight. She's very clearly a clean cop, who is doing her absolute best to help break up crime in Harlem. She does make mistakes, in retrospect, but she absolutely does believe in the value of policing. And for that matter, some of the worst cops are also black. Hell, even in the music video that comprises Method Man's rap, the cop that rolls by as everyone points at angrily, is black.

And yeah, Black Mariah is a corrupt member of the council - her cousin is a straight-up gangsta, she's fine with manipulating public opinion for the sake of arms dealers, and so forth.

And again, white people are a side-note in the series, so there's no need for this racial anger. But it's such a liberating series - I won't stop anyone who wants to wallow in grievance about it.

 

[Toni]

The problem is, you watch enough television shows or movies with all or mostly black casts and well, after a while, black people start to seem like regular folks. Normal, even.

Weird.

 

[Underseer]

The problem is, you watch enough television shows or movies with all or mostly black casts and well, after a while, black people start to seem like regular folks. Normal, even.

Weird.

And that is why Derec is so upset and offended.

 

[Underseer]

It's still just entertainment. The commentary in the press is just the typical echo chamber nonsense that blows certain parts of the story way out of proportion. In-show, the handling of the ideas is actually pretty far from "left-wing racial politics" in my opinion. For one the cops aren't portrayed as villains, and one of the actual villains in the story is compared to Al Sharpton.

The funny part is that Luke Cage is actually a pretty conservative series. When you put aside any sense of race, it's not at all a story about how awful white people are or anything. Back to spoilers...

Show

Cage himself objects to being called "nigga" pretty early on. Pop's barbershop actually has a "swear jar" that people have to contribute to if they curse in the barbershop. And late in the series, it's the mostly black police who are portrayed as running roughshod over the population of Harlem, and the folks in Harlem fight back. Cage himself does knock out couple of cops, but he later offers to explain why he does so. There's an acknowledgement that good policing is very important - and also that what is going on is bad policing.

And then there's Misty Knight. She's very clearly a clean cop, who is doing her absolute best to help break up crime in Harlem. She does make mistakes, in retrospect, but she absolutely does believe in the value of policing. And for that matter, some of the worst cops are also black. Hell, even in the music video that comprises Method Man's rap, the cop that rolls by as everyone points at angrily, is black.

And yeah, Black Mariah is a corrupt member of the council - her cousin is a straight-up gangsta, she's fine with manipulating public opinion for the sake of arms dealers, and so forth.

And again, white people are a side-note in the series, so there's no need for this racial anger. But it's such a liberating series - I won't stop anyone who wants to wallow in grievance about it.

Certain people will always be offended by positive portrayals of anyone who isn't a white male.

 

[Underseer]

Sorry if I repeat anything.

I loved this version of Misty, even if I wish she had a bit more sass and was a little more in people's faces. One criticism of the character is that

Show

[ent]hellip[/ent]they teased us!

They made us think she was going to lose her arm, then didn't. They made us think she was going to quit the force, then she didn't.

On the one hand, kudos to them for using my knowledge of her story arc to create dramatic tension (if they follow the source material, she will lose an arm in the line of duty, get a cybernetic replacement, then quit the police in frustration and become a private investigator). On the other hand, I like this version of the character enough that I desperately want to see her complete her heroic journey and become a superhero in her own right.

She is the first black female superhero, after all.

On the plus side, she's still strong, smart, independent, and defined by her abilities as an investigator.

It has already been stated that Misty will not show up in Iron Fist (sacrilege!) but will show up in The Defenders.

 

[blastula]

The funny part is that Luke Cage is actually a pretty conservative series. When you put aside any sense of race, it's not at all a story about how awful white people are or anything.

That's disappointing. Deleting this from my queue.

 

[Mumbles]

Sorry if I repeat anything.

I loved this version of Misty, even if I wish she had a bit more sass and was a little more in people's faces. One criticism of the character is that

Show

[ent]hellip[/ent]they teased us!

They made us think she was going to lose her arm, then didn't. They made us think she was going to quit the force, then she didn't.

On the one hand, kudos to them for using my knowledge of her story arc to create dramatic tension (if they follow the source material, she will lose an arm in the line of duty, get a cybernetic replacement, then quit the police in frustration and become a private investigator). On the other hand, I like this version of the character enough that I desperately want to see her complete her heroic journey and become a superhero in her own right.

She is the first black female superhero, after all.

On the plus side, she's still strong, smart, independent, and defined by her abilities as an investigator.

It has already been stated that Misty will not show up in Iron Fist (sacrilege!) but will show up in The Defenders.

I want more of Misty Knight. I'll say that, flat out.

I'd be fine with Knight leaving the force, getting her bionic arm, or whatever.

 

[Derec]

Certain people will always be offended by positive portrayals of anyone who isn't a white male.

Nobody here, I hope. Who has said that they are offended by "positive portrayals"?

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And that is why Derec is so upset and offended.

Bullshit, like everything else you write.

 

[Derec]

The problem is, you watch enough television shows or movies with all or mostly black casts and well, after a while, black people start to seem like regular folks. Normal, even.

Does a show haave to have "all or mostly black cast" for "black people to seem like regular folks"?
I can see positive portrayals of black people and "black people like regular folks" on shows that do not go out of their way to make "all or most" of the cast black. That kind of racial exclusivity is pretty strange in 2016.