MAGA Christianity hits Las Vegas

[laughing dog]

That's contradictory.

It is not. There can be a problem with Islam without there being a problem with all of its adherents.

I am not drawing conclusions about the entire population. But there is certainly a problem with Islam in general.

What is the difference between "the entire population [of Muslims]" and "Islam in general"?

There isn't one. You are contradicting yourself.

No, @Derec is right.
Muslim population is about a billion and a half human individuals. Islam is a religious ideology that has different effects on different people under different circumstances. There is an important distinction.

Is it? There are violent Buddhists too. People committing these actions appear to be a bare minority of the religion they are a member of.

And I think that Islam still has the problem that plagued Christian ideology for all those centuries, and to an extent still does.

To an extent? Christians were marching in Virginia, chanting anti-Semitic slogans in 2016. This guy slaughtered dozens of Jewish people in Pittsburgh. Anti-Semitism in Christianity is not an exception to the rule. It isn't the rule, but it isn't remotely uncommon. Kansas City kicker Butker relented it wasn't fair that it was considered wrong to say who really killed Jesus. Anti-Semitism is a plague that infects Islam and Christianity. The thing is, at least in the Middle East, there is history there. Why do many Christians hate the Jewish?

You're illustrating my point.
You can easily find anecdotes concerning individual people.

I'm talking about the ideologies, and the resulting cultures.
Tom

Cultures - plural? You think there is a single generic Islamic or Christian or Jewish or Buddhist culture?

 

[Tigers!]

This isn't evidence of anything--not guilt by association, but I had to share this picture from his father's facebook profile.

View attachment 49019

Despite saying no guilt by asscoiation you just had to show that picture. Implying guilt by association.
The father has a picture of Trump with a lion, flag, helicopter, but no Christian imagery or symbolism I notice => son is like that.

WHAT?! Unless you are you getting a Jack Hanna or Disney vibe from that, it is very obviously religious imagery.

I am guessing that @Tigers! has conveniently forgotten C S Lewis.

No I had not forgotten about CS Lewis. Just noting that it was Don who introduced the motifs into the discussion.

I am noted once again that it was Don is his opening post who tried to weld religion (i.e. Christianity) and MAGA into an article that did not mention them at all, cretaed a thread trying falsely to imply that the bomber was motivated by both of the above when therr is no evidence to show so.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

Here is Livelsberger hoping to become a martyr:

We are crumbling because of a lack of self respect, morales, and respect for others. Greed and gluttony has consumed us. The top 1% decided long ago they weren’t going to bring everyone else with them. You are cattle to them.

We have strayed from family values and corrupted our minds and I am a prime example of having it all but it never being enough.

.....

Consider this last sunset of ’24 and my actions the end of our sickness and a new chapter of health for our people. Rally around the Trump, Musk, Kennedy, and ride this wave to the highest hegemony for all Americans! We are second to no one.

....

Military and vets move on DC starting now. Militias facilitate and augment this activity.

Occupy every major road along fed buildings and the campus of fed buildings by the hundreds of thousands.

Lock the highways around down with semis right after everybody gets in. Hold until the purge is complete.

Try peaceful means first, but be prepared to fight to get the Dems out of the fed government and military by any means necessary. They all must go and a hard reset must occur for our country to avoid collapse.

 

[Colonel Sanders]

Here is Livelsberger hoping to become a martyr:

We are crumbling because of a lack of self respect, morales, and respect for others. Greed and gluttony has consumed us. The top 1% decided long ago they weren’t going to bring everyone else with them. You are cattle to them.

We have strayed from family values and corrupted our minds and I am a prime example of having it all but it never being enough.

.....

Consider this last sunset of ’24 and my actions the end of our sickness and a new chapter of health for our people. Rally around the Trump, Musk, Kennedy, and ride this wave to the highest hegemony for all Americans! We are second to no one.

....

Military and vets move on DC starting now. Militias facilitate and augment this activity.

Occupy every major road along fed buildings and the campus of fed buildings by the hundreds of thousands.

Lock the highways around down with semis right after everybody gets in. Hold until the purge is complete.

Try peaceful means first, but be prepared to fight to get the Dems out of the fed government and military by any means necessary. They all must go and a hard reset must occur for our country to avoid collapse.

When was that from? I'm assuming January 6?

If it's recent, it's scary. Predictable, but still scary.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

Here is Livelsberger hoping to become a martyr:

We are crumbling because of a lack of self respect, morales, and respect for others. Greed and gluttony has consumed us. The top 1% decided long ago they weren’t going to bring everyone else with them. You are cattle to them.

We have strayed from family values and corrupted our minds and I am a prime example of having it all but it never being enough.

.....

Consider this last sunset of ’24 and my actions the end of our sickness and a new chapter of health for our people. Rally around the Trump, Musk, Kennedy, and ride this wave to the highest hegemony for all Americans! We are second to no one.

....

Military and vets move on DC starting now. Militias facilitate and augment this activity.

Occupy every major road along fed buildings and the campus of fed buildings by the hundreds of thousands.

Lock the highways around down with semis right after everybody gets in. Hold until the purge is complete.

Try peaceful means first, but be prepared to fight to get the Dems out of the fed government and military by any means necessary. They all must go and a hard reset must occur for our country to avoid collapse.

When was that from? I'm assuming January 6?

If it's recent, it's scary. Predictable, but still scary.

No, this is from the suicide guy and was revealed after the suicide bombing made news.

‘WAKE UP!’ Read the Trump Hotel Bomber’s Chilling Messages Calling on ‘Militias’ to ‘Purge’ D.C. of Democrats

The man who detonated a Cybertruck at the Trump Hotel in Las Vegas called on American veterans to use violence if necessary to "purge" Democrats from power.

www.mediaite.com

That said, yes, it sounds exactly like the rhetoric from QAnons and other assorted J6 cultists.

 

[scombrid]

Was mad that the one percent left the rest of us behind. Then urges us to support TrumpMusk. Kills himself and sets a literal rolling dumpster fire in front of a Trump branded property to make his point. Seems about right for your average GOP these days.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

No I had not forgotten about CS Lewis.

So you knew that The Chosen One was walking next to a religious symbol of Jehovah, but simultaneously claimed there was no religious imagery in the picture.

 

[Tigers!]

No I had not forgotten about CS Lewis.

So you knew that The Chosen One was walking next to a religious symbol of Jehovah, but simultaneously claimed there was no religious imagery in the picture.

I presume you mean Trump is the Chosen One? That is something I cannot wrap my head around. Very sacreligious and almost blasphemous.
Glad you acknowledege that it is you who is constantly introducing religious imagery into this thread.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

No I had not forgotten about CS Lewis.

So you knew that The Chosen One was walking next to a religious symbol of Jehovah, but simultaneously claimed there was no religious imagery in the picture.

I presume you mean Trump is the Chosen One? That is something I cannot wrap my head around.

That is something Trump and MAGAs have called Trump.

Very sacreligious and almost blasphemous.

What you are witnessing is how (conservative) Christianity is embedded in the MAGA cult and I am just repeating it.

Glad you acknowledege that it is you who is constantly introducing religious imagery into this thread.

Don't shoot the messenger.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

This isn't evidence of anything--not guilt by association, but I had to share this picture from his father's facebook profile.

View attachment 49019

Despite saying no guilt by asscoiation you just had to show that picture. Implying guilt by association.
The father has a picture of Trump with a lion, flag, helicopter, but no Christian imagery or symbolism I notice => son is like that.

WHAT?! Unless you are you getting a Jack Hanna or Disney vibe from that, it is very obviously religious imagery.

I am guessing that @Tigers! has conveniently forgotten C S Lewis.

No I had not forgotten about CS Lewis. Just noting that it was Don who introduced the motifs into the discussion.

I am noted once again that it was Don is his opening post who tried to weld religion (i.e. Christianity) and MAGA into an article that did not mention them at all, cretaed a thread trying falsely to imply that the bomber was motivated by both of the above when therr is no evidence to show so.

Actually, you are falsely claiming that he was honestly impling Christianity led to the Cybertruck somewhat of a bombing in Las Vegas. Don2 was making a point using what is mistakenly called "irony" these days.

The thread here for New Orleans attack was titled in such a way to implicate Islam, when the reality is that radicalism and extremism and mental illness are compatible with many different belief systems. The New Orleans attacker was radicalized online by proponents of ISIS. The Las Vegas attacker was inspired by the web, likely far right cable news, and likely PTSD and possibly CTE. This isn't about religion, this is about people being manipulated. While the New Orleans case involved likely explicit manipulation towards violence, the sources that the Las Vegas attacker used were less about enacting violence, but more about the absolute need to take a stand to save our nation (think January 6th).

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

That's contradictory.

It is not. There can be a problem with Islam without there being a problem with all of its adherents.

I am not drawing conclusions about the entire population. But there is certainly a problem with Islam in general.

What is the difference between "the entire population [of Muslims]" and "Islam in general"?

There isn't one. You are contradicting yourself.

No, @Derec is right.
Muslim population is about a billion and a half human individuals. Islam is a religious ideology that has different effects on different people under different circumstances. There is an important distinction.

Is it? There are violent Buddhists too. People committing these actions appear to be a bare minority of the religion they are a member of.

And I think that Islam still has the problem that plagued Christian ideology for all those centuries, and to an extent still does.

To an extent? Christians were marching in Virginia, chanting anti-Semitic slogans in 2016. This guy slaughtered dozens of Jewish people in Pittsburgh. Anti-Semitism in Christianity is not an exception to the rule. It isn't the rule, but it isn't remotely uncommon. Kansas City kicker Butker relented it wasn't fair that it was considered wrong to say who really killed Jesus. Anti-Semitism is a plague that infects Islam and Christianity. The thing is, at least in the Middle East, there is history there. Why do many Christians hate the Jewish?

You're illustrating my point.
You can easily find anecdotes concerning individual people.

Anecdotes? Butker was held as a hero of free speech by the right. His anti-Semitic retort was not even objected to by The Right.

I'm talking about the ideologies, and the resulting cultures.

There is no "Christian culture". Christianity is splintered. And many of those splinters are rife with anti-Semitism.

 

[ZiprHead]

No I had not forgotten about CS Lewis.

So you knew that The Chosen One was walking next to a religious symbol of Jehovah, but simultaneously claimed there was no religious imagery in the picture.

I presume you mean Trump is the Chosen One? That is something I cannot wrap my head around. Very sacreligious and almost blasphemous.
Glad you acknowledege that it is you who is constantly introducing religious imagery into this thread.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

Here is an interesting article on the subject of Livelsberger and it makes some comparisons--and distinctions--between the NOLA terrorist and him:

Who radicalized Matthew Livelsberger? - The Boston Globe

Before blowing up a Cybertruck in Las Vegas, the Green Beret advocated for a violent purge of Democrats from the government and military.

www.bostonglobe.com

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

I kind of feel like this is missing something:

Livelsberger harbored no ill will toward Trump, law enforcement officials said. In one of the notes he left, he said the country needed to "rally around" him and Tesla CEO Elon Musk.

Oh yeah...the Democrat purges!

 

[ZiprHead]

Terrorist. Prove me wrong.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

Why Are Publications Sugar-Coating Livelsberger’s Political Minifestos?

Over the last four days, the bizarre Cybertruck fire outside a Trump...

talkingpointsmemo.com

...
at least for the moment there is a pretty striking lack of attention to the political motives he expressed in at least two documents or what I guess we might call minifestos that investigators found on his iPhone.

Those documents denounce Democrats and demand they be “purged” from Washington, by violence if necessary, and express the hope that his own death will serve as a kind of bell clap for a national rebirth of masculinity under the leadership of Donald Trump, Elon Musk and Bobby Kennedy Jr.

Compare to:

How Cybertruck bomber Matthew Livelsberger helped kids in Afghanistan

Master Sgt. Livelsberger organized for 200 stuffed animals, 100 notebooks and 50 sets of crayons and pencils to be shipped from his native Ohio to Afghanistan while on tour

www.dailymail.co.uk

...

Sixteen years prior, Master Sgt. Livelsberger organized for 200 stuffed animals, 100 notebooks and 50 sets of crayons and pencils to be shipped from his native Ohio to Afghanistan, vowing to his hometown newspaper he would deliver them himself.

...

Notes recorded on Livelsberger's phone and recovered by police made clear his motive was not terrorism or violence, just to draw attention to his manifesto.

 

[unapologetic]

Islam still has the problem that plagued Christian ideology for all those centuries, and to an extent still does.

That problem is the idea that EVERYBODY needs to believe what you believe.
That your god commands/demands that you spread your disease.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Why Are Publications Sugar-Coating Livelsberger’s Political Minifestos?

Over the last four days, the bizarre Cybertruck fire outside a Trump...

talkingpointsmemo.com

...
at least for the moment there is a pretty striking lack of attention to the political motives he expressed in at least two documents or what I guess we might call minifestos that investigators found on his iPhone.

Those documents denounce Democrats and demand they be “purged” from Washington, by violence if necessary, and express the hope that his own death will serve as a kind of bell clap for a national rebirth of masculinity under the leadership of Donald Trump, Elon Musk and Bobby Kennedy Jr.

Compare to:

How Cybertruck bomber Matthew Livelsberger helped kids in Afghanistan

Master Sgt. Livelsberger organized for 200 stuffed animals, 100 notebooks and 50 sets of crayons and pencils to be shipped from his native Ohio to Afghanistan while on tour

www.dailymail.co.uk

...

Sixteen years prior, Master Sgt. Livelsberger organized for 200 stuffed animals, 100 notebooks and 50 sets of crayons and pencils to be shipped from his native Ohio to Afghanistan, vowing to his hometown newspaper he would deliver them himself.

...

Notes recorded on Livelsberger's phone and recovered by police made clear his motive was not terrorism or violence, just to draw attention to his manifesto.

The odd thing is, his actions were meant to steer political actions, which is terrorism.

What I don't know is whether his firebomb was designed as such to get attention and specifically not to hurt a large amount of people. Granted, shooting yourself prior to it going off really does make that hard to ensure.

 

[unapologetic]

Granted, shooting yourself prior to it going off really does make that hard to ensure.

I am still not convinced it was suicide.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

Granted, shooting yourself prior to it going off really does make that hard to ensure.

I am still not convinced it was suicide.

Think about it. If it weren't a suicide, it'd have to be a massive conspiracy theory. Faked ChatGPT questions, faked video of him filling up gas etc, fake camera footage of arrivals, serious massive coordination of deep state and then on top of that, disappearing thousands eyewitnesses who saw an arrival and whatever happened next or at least the Men In Black showing up with one of those sparkly things to make everyone get amnesia.