MAGA Christianity hits Las Vegas

[Derec]

They were both US veterans who trained at Fort Bragg and used trucks as weapons against soft targets.

The only soft target the guy in Las Vegas targeted was his own dead body. It was a public suicide, not a terrorist attack where 15 people were murdered in the name of Islam.

But don't let that stop you from riding that hobby horse of yours.

No, it is Don2's hobby horse to make false equivalences between Christianity and Islam (see thread title) even though there is no evidence of any connection between the event and Christianity.

Although to be fair, I'm a bit surprised you haven't whatabout yet involving a black man committing a terrorist attack last century. So yay?

To be fair, the NoLa terrorist was black.
But, of course, to Elixir and his ilk, the real problem are always white men.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

I in no way equated several people with minor injuries and a suicide with quite a few people dead. That doesn't mean there isn't a point, though, in comparing what is similar and different.

They are different in almost every point, ...

Two extremist guys who became radicalized while they had PTSD and life situations with partners and debt etc where such brain problems feeds into the risk of such...and they even rented vehicles from the same company and served at some of the same bases/wars. In fact, Livelsberger's bloodlust to get rid of all the Democrats isn't that different from the other guy who probably wanted to get rid of all non-believers. I wouldn't call it different in almost every point at all.

including the motivation being religion.

I think you are having a very hard time with the term "MAGA Christianity."

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

I in no way equated several people with minor injuries and a suicide with quite a few people dead. That doesn't mean there isn't a point, though, in comparing what is similar and different.

They are different in almost every point,

They were both US veterans who trained at Fort Bragg and used trucks as weapons against soft targets. But don't let that stop you from riding that hobby horse of yours.

Also, they were both for purges and did their deeds for attention, hoping to incite more events leading to purges....and both had mental-related issues.

 

[Derec]

Of course it's a real commercial. It's just not an official commercial.

By that standard, these and this one are "real commercials" too?
Although the third one and the plant shoot one would legit work, I think. And the fourth one is a sendup of a real old VW commercial.

No, they just don't have the guts to make it official.

You really think they were behind it, even though they tried to sue the creators?

Stereotypes of villains change constantly. They are part of fiction; When people get all bent out of shape because the villains are no longer taken from the group they personally hate, that tells us nothing at all about "woke", and a lot that's very distasteful about the complainer and his grasp of the difference between reality and storytelling.

It tells us all about woke when studios won't have politically incorrect villains. And it has nothing to do with hating anybody, but with verisimilitude. Islamic terrorists are realistic, because many real-life terror groups are Islamic.
Note also that the studio changed the villains into random white guys because CAIR, extremist Islamist pressure group with ties to Hamas, demanded they change it. That studios listen to groups like that is very concerning.

 

[Derec]

https://ammo.com/research/mass-shootings-by-shooters-race

Several things. This website uses a very restrictive definition of "mass shooting" since they only count 195 in 60 years. That's ~3 per year.
It is very different than commonly used definitions of "mass shootings".

Second, even when cherry-picking mass shootings (by excluding gang and family violence), white people still commit disproportionately few mass shootings.

But wait, is it 1966 or 1988? I assume it should be 1966 as that year is used every other time on that page. Still, a big oversight.

So, white men are the scariest of all!

In a mind of a self-hating white leftists, perhaps.

They certainly scare me most of all. And I'm one of them.

Elixir is a case in point for the above group.
Never mind that when it comes to all nonnegligent homicides, blacks have a rate 5-6x higher than whites. His ideology tells him that "white men bad" and damn the facts.

 

[Derec]

The 9/11 terrorists were not American citizens. so not part of the 1%.

They were still Muslims, and their motivation was explicitly Islamist.

If a Christian American went to another country where Christians are 1/1000th of the population and committed a terrorist attack would you then say that that country can now class all their Christians as (potential) terrorists?

If, for example, Christian Americans, as part of a fundamentalist Christian terrorist group, flew planes into the Petronas Towers, I would certainly expect Malaysia to restrict Christian immigration into their country (esp. for fundamentalist Christians) and also to scrutinize their Christian citizens who show signs of fundamentalism.
Yes, Christians are 9%, not 1%, of Malaysia, but it has nice twin towers which is why I picked it.

 

[bilby]

I am not drawing conclusions about the entire population. But there is certainly a problem with Islam in general.

That's contradictory.

You are wrong about this.

I can explain it to you; I HAVE EXPLAINED it to you. But I cannot understand it for you.

If you sre determined to be wrong, and to be bigoted, that's on you.

 

[Derec]

I only copied enough to give you the idea, but imo, based on what I know about PTSD, as well as the other evidence, I don't see his actions as connected to politics. Yes. He voted for Trump, but he could have been a far left brain damaged victim of combat and had done something similar. It's our fucking wars and the ineffective treatment that many veterans receive that are the real problems.

It certainly sounds like traumatic brain injury. I wonder if there is enough left of it to do an autopsy to confirm any brain damage such as CTE (chronic traumatic encephalopathy).

 

[Derec]

That's contradictory.

It is not. There can be a problem with Islam without there being a problem with all of its adherents.

You are wrong about this.

No, you are. Very much so.

 

[ZiprHead]

This isn't evidence of anything--not guilt by association, but I had to share this picture from his father's facebook profile.

View attachment 49019

Despite saying no guilt by asscoiation you just had to show that picture. Implying guilt by association.
The father has a picture of Trump with a lion, flag, helicopter, but no Christian imagery or symbolism I notice => son is like that.

WHAT?! Unless you are you getting a Jack Hanna or Disney vibe from that, it is very obviously religious imagery.

Wasn't there something about the savior lying down with both lions and lambs?

 

[Bronzeage]

I think the reaction to this incident can be summed up with, "You knew he was crazy, what made you think he was smart?

 

[bilby]

The overwhelming majority of terrorists are men.

US immigration policy should stop letting men enter the country, and the government should consider deporting those men currently in the country.

If anyone thinks that this eould be absurd bigotry, please take it up with @Derec, who has presented a set of arguments for this exact course of action, albeit with "men" substituted by "Muslims" - which of course has no impact at all on the logic.

 

[bilby]

That's contradictory.

It is not. There can be a problem with Islam without there being a problem with all of its adherents.

I am not drawing conclusions about the entire population. But there is certainly a problem with Islam in general.

What is the difference between "the entire population [of Muslims]" and "Islam in general"?

There isn't one. You are contradicting yourself.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

That's contradictory.

It is not. There can be a problem with Islam without there being a problem with all of its adherents.

I am not drawing conclusions about the entire population. But there is certainly a problem with Islam in general.

What is the difference between "the entire population [of Muslims]" and "Islam in general"?

There isn't one. You are contradicting yourself.

Something about a mirror and all. Germany exterminated millions of humans. The Muslim terrorists have a long way to go before being as bad as the Germans. Which reminds me, we need to talk to Derec about his citizenship. We just don't think Germany is... oh wait... it's White, it's Christian... they are sorry. it's okay.

 

[thebeave]

Don;
I don't want to get in the middle of whatever this is...
But I too was curious about your avatar.

My avatar is of my master.

I changed my avatar upon seeing post#2 of this thread.

Back to the topic at hand, I was referencing a previous post in this thread that included one of Livelsberger's emails where he had called on the military to purge all Dems from military, government, etc by any means necessary.

Actually, as I suspected, your avatar is from Village of the Damned. Look at the girl in the linked trailer at about the 7 second mark. Its a pretty good movie. I watched it about 20 years ago.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Speaking of which, how in the world was someone suffering like this person was, and manage to still be in active duty?

 

[TomC]

That's contradictory.

It is not. There can be a problem with Islam without there being a problem with all of its adherents.

I am not drawing conclusions about the entire population. But there is certainly a problem with Islam in general.

What is the difference between "the entire population [of Muslims]" and "Islam in general"?

There isn't one. You are contradicting yourself.

No, @Derec is right.
Muslim population is about a billion and a half human individuals. Islam is a religious ideology that has different effects on different people under different circumstances. There is an important distinction.

And I think that Islam still has the problem that plagued Christian ideology for all those centuries, and to an extent still does. The tendency to drag ugly old morals and ethical codes into the modern world. The heretical offshoots of ancient Judaism still teach the tribalism of our ancestors. Christian culture, to a much larger extent, has adopted the more sophisticated morality of secularism (although it's hardly a paragon of virtue) .
Tom

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

That's contradictory.

It is not. There can be a problem with Islam without there being a problem with all of its adherents.

I am not drawing conclusions about the entire population. But there is certainly a problem with Islam in general.

What is the difference between "the entire population [of Muslims]" and "Islam in general"?

There isn't one. You are contradicting yourself.

No, @Derec is right.
Muslim population is about a billion and a half human individuals. Islam is a religious ideology that has different effects on different people under different circumstances. There is an important distinction.

Is it? There are violent Buddhists too. People committing these actions appear to be a bare minority of the religion they are a member of.

And I think that Islam still has the problem that plagued Christian ideology for all those centuries, and to an extent still does.

To an extent? Christians were marching in Virginia, chanting anti-Semitic slogans in 2016. This guy slaughtered dozens of Jewish people in Pittsburgh. Anti-Semitism in Christianity is not an exception to the rule. It isn't the rule, but it isn't remotely uncommon. Kansas City kicker Butker relented it wasn't fair that it was considered wrong to say who really killed Jesus. Anti-Semitism is a plague that infects Islam and Christianity. The thing is, at least in the Middle East, there is history there. Why do many Christians hate the Jewish?

 

[Shadowy Man]

The overwhelming majority of terrorists are men.

US immigration policy should stop letting men enter the country, and the government should consider deporting those men currently in the country.

If anyone thinks that this eould be absurd bigotry, please take it up with @Derec, who has presented a set of arguments for this exact course of action, albeit with "men" substituted by "Muslims" - which of course has no impact at all on the logic.

So I guess you are saying that you cannot draw conclusions about the entire male population, but there is certainly a problem with masculinity in general.

is that correct? Does that follow logically from the aforementioned set of arguments?

 

[TomC]

That's contradictory.

It is not. There can be a problem with Islam without there being a problem with all of its adherents.

I am not drawing conclusions about the entire population. But there is certainly a problem with Islam in general.

What is the difference between "the entire population [of Muslims]" and "Islam in general"?

There isn't one. You are contradicting yourself.

No, @Derec is right.
Muslim population is about a billion and a half human individuals. Islam is a religious ideology that has different effects on different people under different circumstances. There is an important distinction.

Is it? There are violent Buddhists too. People committing these actions appear to be a bare minority of the religion they are a member of.

And I think that Islam still has the problem that plagued Christian ideology for all those centuries, and to an extent still does.

To an extent? Christians were marching in Virginia, chanting anti-Semitic slogans in 2016. This guy slaughtered dozens of Jewish people in Pittsburgh. Anti-Semitism in Christianity is not an exception to the rule. It isn't the rule, but it isn't remotely uncommon. Kansas City kicker Butker relented it wasn't fair that it was considered wrong to say who really killed Jesus. Anti-Semitism is a plague that infects Islam and Christianity. The thing is, at least in the Middle East, there is history there. Why do many Christians hate the Jewish?

You're illustrating my point.
You can easily find anecdotes concerning individual people.

I'm talking about the ideologies, and the resulting cultures.
Tom