Mass shooting in New Zealand - twitter account of shooter (99.9999% him) still open

[Angry Floof]

We are no longer letting right wing authoritarian disease off the hook. That's what this is. Right wing bigotry. The PM of NZ spoke like an honest leader when she said the same quite clearly today. No more special pedestal for animal brain fear aggression programmed by fear and hate mongers. People of humane principles and intelligence are not obligated to pretend a hateful, stunted ideology is anything but. These "few crazy people" do not exist in a bubble. Keep ignoring that at your own peril and, unfortunately, the peril of everyone else.

And if you think a "hate war" will ensue as if there are two sides of violent hate mongering morons threatening violence, you are out of your mind. The people all over the world who have to deal with extremist violence every day, all the time, in the real world and not an internet opinion bubble of people who believe anything without question, but in the real world, with real violence and death and blood, are NOT all that concerned with "left wing violence." It's fucking right wing extremists that have the attention of the people who have to deal with the actual violence and guns and blood and death. They're too busy trying to save lives and stop extremists to worry about imaginary "both sides" violence that isn't happening.

 

[RavenSky]

As long as mainstream politicians are dismissive of the dangers of Islamization, and continue to support mass migration of islamists, I fear incidents like these will increase in frequency.

I am not sure what's worse--the victim blaming itself or the plausible deniability of victim blaming.

^^^ This.

 

[RavenSky]

49 killed?! Jebus! Last I heard it was a shooting with no numbers yet. How awful!

"President Trump" had something nice to say on Twitter:
My warmest sympathy and best wishes goes out to the people of New Zealand after the horrible massacre in the Mosques. 49 innocent people have so senselessly died, with so many more seriously injured. The U.S. stands by New Zealand for anything we can do. God bless all!

20 minutes later....
"The ‘Jexodus’ movement encourages Jewish people to leave the Democrat Party. Total disrespect! Republicans are waiting with open arms. Remember Jerusalem (U.S. Embassy) and the horrible Iran Nuclear Deal! @OANN @foxandfriends"

Your timeline of Trump is off...

You missed the early early early morning tweet of Trump retweeting Breitbart's version of events. Then, apparently, a semi-sane staffer got a hold of his phone and deleted it, tweeting out that semi-literate message you quoted first.

"best wishes"

 

[ZiprHead]

The New Zealand Mosque shooter says in his manifesto that he admires Donald Trump because Trump is “a symbol of renewed white identity and common purpose.”

He does realize that Trump's "common purpose" is to fuck over anyone of any race for the betterment of Trump?

Ah, but white people love him so they can be used as useful idiots.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

49 killed?! Jebus! Last I heard it was a shooting with no numbers yet. How awful!

"President Trump" had something nice to say on Twitter:
My warmest sympathy and best wishes goes out to the people of New Zealand after the horrible massacre in the Mosques. 49 innocent people have so senselessly died, with so many more seriously injured. The U.S. stands by New Zealand for anything we can do. God bless all!

20 minutes later....
"The ‘Jexodus’ movement encourages Jewish people to leave the Democrat Party. Total disrespect! Republicans are waiting with open arms. Remember Jerusalem (U.S. Embassy) and the horrible Iran Nuclear Deal! @OANN @foxandfriends"

Your timeline of Trump is off...

You missed the early early early morning tweet of Trump retweeting Breitbart's version of events. Then, apparently, a semi-sane staffer got a hold of his phone and deleted it, tweeting out that semi-literate message you quoted first.

"best wishes"

A quick look goes one of two ways.... Breitbart's version or publicizing his article interview in Breitbart where he threatens America. Either way...

 

[Arctish]

I just finished reading this article from The Atlantic:
White Nationalism’s Deep American Roots

The seed of Nazism’s ultimate objective—the preservation of a pure white race, uncontaminated by foreign blood—was in fact sown with striking success in the United States. What is judged extremist today was once the consensus of a powerful cadre of the American elite, well-connected men who eagerly seized on a false doctrine of “race suicide” during the immigration scare of the early 20th century. They included wealthy patricians, intellectuals, lawmakers, even several presidents. Perhaps the most important among them was a blue blood with a very impressive mustache, Madison Grant. He was the author of a 1916 book called The Passing of the Great Race, which spread the doctrine of race purity all over the globe.

We are seeing a resurgence in the same violent racist ideology here in the US, and our world-wide influence on social media is planting and nourishing it elsewhere.

 

[barbos]

I think we all need to expect islamic terrorists retaliating by attacking some church somewhere.

 

[Derec]

I think we all need to expect islamic terrorists retaliating by attacking some church somewhere.

As if they needed an excuse.
Egyptian military court sentences 17 people to death over church bombings

By the way, why is it not politically correct to identify Islamic terrorism as Islamic, but it's perfectly PC to harp on the Christchurch shooter being white?

 

[Arctish]

I think we all need to expect islamic terrorists retaliating by attacking some church somewhere.

As if they needed an excuse.
Egyptian military court sentences 17 people to death over church bombings

By the way, why is it not politically correct to identify Islamic terrorism as Islamic, but it's perfectly PC to harp on the Christchurch shooter being white?

Because the term 'Islamic' in this context indicates ideology while the term 'white' indicates race, and I can scarcely believe you have to ask.

 

[Derec]

It's so good to hear a leader say "right wing extremism." Call it what it is.

So why is it PC to say "right wing extremist" but not "Islamic extremism" or say "black extremism" for groups like the (New) Black Panthers?

White supremacists and ISIS are the same rabid dog barking at itself in a mirror. They're only different in the details.

What about black extremists? Or left wing extremists that believe there should be no white people?
LOUIS FARRAKHAN ISSUES SUNDAY CALL FOR AN END TO WHITE MEN
Note that Louis Farrakhan is not being shunned by society even though he is a racist and a black supremacist. But that kind of supremacism is completely politically correct.

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Because the term 'Islamic' in this context indicates ideology while the term 'white' indicates race, and I can scarcely believe you have to ask.

And that should make it more acceptable to blame an ideology (Islamism) rather than an immutable attribute (being white), not less. So, yes I have to ask, because it's exactly ass-backwards.

 

[Arctish]

Because the term 'Islamic' in this context indicates ideology while the term 'white' indicates race, and I can scarcely believe you have to ask.

And that should make it more acceptable to blame an ideology (Islamism) rather than an immutable attribute (being white), not less. So, yes I have to ask, because it's exactly ass-backwards.

Quote an article that only refers to the guy as white and doesn't mention how that figures into his ideology and motive for murdering people at prayer in a mosque. Show me what you're complaining about or I'm calling bullshit on your whataboutism before Ruby Sparks does.

 

[barbos]

I think we all need to expect islamic terrorists retaliating by attacking some church somewhere.

As if they needed an excuse.
Egyptian military court sentences 17 people to death over church bombings

By the way, why is it not politically correct to identify Islamic terrorism as Islamic, but it's perfectly PC to harp on the Christchurch shooter being white?

I should have specified more - "church somewhere in the West"

 

[Derec]

the only reason there has been an uptick in recent years is due to the violence and horror in places like Syria, Afghanistan and Iraq.

In other words, mass migration. From the very places where fundamentalist Islam is dominant. 99% of Afghans for example support Sharia law.

Anyone who thinks these people are trying to instill Sharia law are simply delusional. The Muslims in NZ aren't the problem anymore than the Muslims in the US are a problem. I've met several Muslims and they aren't scary at all. It's the white nationalists that scare the shit out of me, and I'm white!

That's typical left-wing nonsense. All Muslims are ok, including the fundamentalists and Muslim supremacists. It's only white people that are ever a problem. Not that being white and Muslim is mutually exclusive, except that for leftists, they see all Muslims as automatically "brown" no matter their actual hue.
By the way, have you ever been near Clarkston? It's like Little Raqqa over there - many women wearing full veil.

The gunman seems to have a significant interest in history — at least, the parts that fit into a white nationalist narrative. On his weapons, he wrote the names of centuries-old military leaders who led battles against largely nonwhite forces,

I do not think that is a correct interpretation. The names I recognized and/or identified were all political and military leaders that were involved in battles against Ottoman Turk invasions of Europe. Turks advanced to the gates of Vienna at some point. But I guess to you they are the "good guys" because they are non-white?

along with the names of men who recently carried out mass shootings of Jews and Muslims.

Have not seen those.

The manifesto, steeped in anti-Muslim sentiment, refers to nonwhites as “invaders” who threaten to “replace” white people.

Well that's exactly what many non-white supremacists and even some white left-wing radicals are saying and rejoicing in.

This guy is a college professor, by the way, not just some kook with no influence.

I also read that this gunman was influenced by some racist French asshole who had written a book about how white people were being replaced by people with darker skin. Sound familiar? White supremacy that leads to terrorism is the problem here, not Muslims who were only minding their own business and attending their own religious services.

Is it really "white supremacist" to not want to be replaced?

I think all hate should be fought. But this anti-white narrative prevalent in our culture, how white people are THE problem in the world, or how we should rejoice at whites becoming a minority because whites have this blood guilt over things like colonialism, or that no other races can be racist etc. is part of the reason people like the Christchurch shooter get radicalized.

There is a very deep strand of self-hatred in Western leftism.

 

[Derec]

I should have specified more - "church somewhere in the West"

Hollande: Deadly church attack in France carried out in name of ISIS

Is France west enough, or are you going to move the goalposts into the Atlantic next time?

But, you know, ISLAMIC State has nothing to do with Islam ...

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Quote an article that only refers to the guy as white and doesn't mention how that figures into his ideology and motive for murdering people at prayer in a mosque.

I was thinking more of this thread, where Toni was going on about him being blonde and blue eyed.

 

[Derec]

What Derec is saying is that if you allow Muslims to migrate to our country, you are to blame for senseless acts of violence committed against said immigrants.

Nobody is saying that no Muslims should be allowed to immigrate. THAT would be bigoted. Over and over again, I have specified with great clarity what my position is and yet, people like you keep misrepresenting it. Immigration is not a binary switch. We do not have to choose between "let nobody in" and "let anybody in". Again, my position is:

1. Numbers of immigrants should be reasonable. No flood of mass migrants like what happened in Europe.
2. Countries should vet anybody who wishes to immigrate for criminal history and extremist views. That is not happening with this mass migration where everybody is just let in.
3. Ability to deport people who have no right to stay in the host country, or who have lost that right due to crime and/or extremist allegiances.

None of these things mean that we should not "allow Muslims to migrate to our country".

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This attack was related to white supremacy and xenophobia, not religion. I think that people like this often attack people in houses of worship is because people in such places are usually unarmed, and not expecting to be murdered in cold blood. It's like when Dylan Roof gunned down people in a black church. It wasn't Christianity he ws attacking, it was black people that he hated.

It depends. In the case of Dylan Roof, yes, there is no indication that he was anti-Christian, just anti-black.
But there is also no indication that the Christchurch shooter did not select mosques because they are Muslim either.

 

[just_me]

Did these guys target these mosques because it was a good place to corner arabs or muslims? I kindof wonder if these isn't religious bigotry.

 

[Derec]

I know a few of us here are anti-religion, and I was at one time as well. Eventually I realized that religion has nothing to do with this stuff, it’s all political.

Well Islam is making political claims. There is no real idea of separation of mosque and state in Islam.

It’s as simple as this: Some middle eastern people get radicalized when you bomb the snot out of them,

Islam was radical and violent ever since Mohammed started raiding everybody within riding distance of Mecca.

remove their wealth,

What wealth was "removed"?

destroy their opportunity, and crush their hope. Any group of people would react the same.

Oh, please, they have plenty of opportunity. But it's easier just to blame the West for everything.

Derec, I hope you and other racists figure this out one day.

1. I am not a racist
2. Islam is not a race

 

[repoman]

What Derec is saying is that if you allow Muslims to migrate to our country, you are to blame for senseless acts of violence committed against said immigrants.

Nobody is saying that no Muslims should be allowed to immigrate. THAT would be bigoted. Over and over again, I have specified with great clarity what my position is and yet, people like you keep misrepresenting it. Immigration is not a binary switch. We do not have to choose between "let nobody in" and "let anybody in". Again, my position is:

1. Numbers of immigrants should be reasonable. No flood of mass migrants like what happened in Europe.
2. Countries should vet anybody who wishes to immigrate for criminal history and extremist views. That is not happening with this mass migration where everybody is just let in.
3. Ability to deport people who have no right to stay in the host country, or who have lost that right due to crime and/or extremist allegiances.

None of these things mean that we should not "allow Muslims to migrate to our country".

- - - Updated - - -

This attack was related to white supremacy and xenophobia, not religion. I think that people like this often attack people in houses of worship is because people in such places are usually unarmed, and not expecting to be murdered in cold blood. It's like when Dylan Roof gunned down people in a black church. It wasn't Christianity he ws attacking, it was black people that he hated.

It depends. In the case of Dylan Roof, yes, there is no indication that he was anti-Christian, just anti-black.
But there is also no indication that the Christchurch shooter did not select mosques because they are Muslim either.

He was playing the Remove Kebab theme song.

 

[Derec]

And FWIW, the god worshipped by Jews, Christians, and Muslims worship is the same deity.

Is it really? Usually that line is given by more liberal/ecumenical theists who actually believe that deity exists and can be worshiped, even if they are viewed differently. To say that they all worship the same god is to say that none of these religions has a monopoly on truth.
But us atheists view all these gods as fictional, so we can admit these deities are different while also saying that all of the religions are wrong.
But the triune god of small-o orthodox Christianity is very different than the god of rabbinic Judaism (which is in turn different from the tangible Torah god but that's a whole different issue) and is very different from Allah.

P.S.: Worshiped is spelled with one p. It's not Amazon Prime .

 

[barbos]

I should have specified more - "church somewhere in the West"

Hollande: Deadly church attack in France carried out in name of ISIS

Is France west enough, or are you going to move the goalposts into the Atlantic next time?

But, you know, ISLAMIC State has nothing to do with Islam ...

Dude, relax, I just wanted to say that I, as majority of western people care about terrorism as long as it happening in the West and near. I know I should care about Egypt and other basket cases but when it's happening daily I just can't.