Maybe the universe has always existed

[Clivedurdle]

Is nothing imaginary, like gods, square root of minus one...?

 

[Malintent]

There are no causes. There are laws. A doesnt cause B. But B follows when A is the case.

There are no laws. B doesn't just follow A. But B is a consequence of A.

I can do this all day with you

 

[HellFire]

Gospel is right on the money with his/her thinking of "nothingness" I don't find it difficult in the least to realize what true nothingness means.Of course trying to use words to describe the opposite of something is very difficult.Maybe nearly impossible.

I was just thinking of myself and others before we were born and didn't exist.We still weren't "nothingness" Reason being that our genetic make up did exist.When your Mom conceived of course a bunch of stuff came together to make you.That stuff already existed.

So in other words,even "before you existed" you weren't nothingness.

Sorry for my poor writing skills,it's why I lurk instead of write.

Tim

 

[Clivedurdle]

Originally Posted by Gospel View Post
Time doesn't apply to my point. My use of the word always is a poor choice of word. I'm talking about Something (it doesn't matter what that something is, even time is something) & Nothing (which is the total and absolute lack of something). My point is that Nothing cannot be Nothing when something exists. And since you can neither get something out of nothing nor nothing out of something, nothing could not & cannot ever exist (again poor choice using exist). And being that nothing cannot exist and has not existed, it in and of itself is the absolute lack of something (which is nothing). Do you understand my point now?

With something all things are possible except nothing (which is the total and absolute lack of something)

Interestingly, even one god creator theists agree nothing does not exist - as they assert their god has always existed! (God is a something!)

 

[Juma]

There are no causes. There are laws. A doesnt cause B. But B follows when A is the case.

There are no laws. B doesn't just follow A. But B is a consequence of A.

I can do this all day with you

"Laws of nature" is just how we denote the regularities of the world. To say that there are no laws then is to say that all is chaotic which is obviously not the case.

About cause: how would you precede to show that A actually causes B? All we can say that if A then with very high probability B. There is no reason to say that A causes B. Just that B will be the case if A.

 

[Draconis]

I prefer to think of big bang as being a change of state, rather than something from nothing. If we could work out inflation and dark energy etc, that would make things clearer.

Are these things inherent in our (any?) universe. Or is there "something" external acting to create these effects?

 

[WAB]

I think our BIG BANG is local. In Reality, it was an infinitesimal bubble-burst in an inconceivably vast ocean of bursting bubbles.

 

[Draconis]

I think our BIG BANG is local. In Reality, it was an infinitesimal bubble-burst in an inconceivably vast ocean of bursting bubbles.

Yep, there's no reason why that cannot be so, although we at present have no way to be sure.

There was a time when the whole universe was considered to be our galaxy, then it was realised there were other galaxies further and further away, other larger and larger groups of galaxies. So on that basis imagining that there's another level of existence beyond the currently recognised universe seems reasonable. And it doesn't have to be magical, supernatural or God-filled.

 

[fromderinside]

Um. From whence is that randomness gain coming?

... any evidence we're in an open system.....

 

[rrr6]

Eternally Exsitent Finite Universe

I believe we live in an eternally existent--- whatever transformationall configurations ---Universe.

If Multiverse exists, then it too is finite and there can only exist a finite set of local universe's that sum-total as our finite Universe, because any finite number of local universe's, are minimally connected/interrrelated by gravity. imho

"U"niverse > Universe > universe{s} > I-verse < you-verse < we-verse < them-verse

This latter above, is my opening preamble to my cosmic heirarchy, not yet posted in this here forum.

Finite = integral/integrity ergo wholistic

Infinite = non-integral, non-wholistic.

I go deeper into this in my thread at;

http://talkfreethought.org/showthread.php?4949-(-((-(**)-))-)

Oops those percentage signs appear to be a mistranslation. Anyway the thread topic is in Metaphysics and titled;

...( (( (**) )) )......

r6