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McConnell's "Freudian" Slips Out

Jarhyn

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This guy has seen all the statistics broken down by group, unless perhaps he hired someone to find him a statistic that could spin toward that line, and had them just tell him that one statistic.

Somehow this seems worse.

You choose a strange hill to die on, claiming McConnell to spew anything out to the press that he hasn't read first or asked specifically for a misleading statistic as support.
Your fantasias are not reality.
The certain reality beyond the probable one, that...
The speaker wishes the listener to think that African Americans are not having their vote suppressed.
... Is that

When you pose it as "African Americans" and "all Americans" it's pretty close.

When you pose it as "Minorities and White Americans" it looks a lot different.

...African Americans are not alone in having their vote suppressed.
 

Metaphor

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This guy has seen all the statistics broken down by group, unless perhaps he hired someone to find him a statistic that could spin toward that line, and had them just tell him that one statistic.

Somehow this seems worse.

You choose a strange hill to die on, claiming McConnell to spew anything out to the press that he hasn't read first or asked specifically for a misleading statistic as support.
Your fantasias are not reality.
The certain reality beyond the probable one, that...
The speaker wishes the listener to think that African Americans are not having their vote suppressed.
... Is that

When you pose it as "African Americans" and "all Americans" it's pretty close.

When you pose it as "Minorities and White Americans" it looks a lot different.

...African Americans are not alone in having their vote suppressed.
Quoting yourself does not make your fantasia a reality.

McConnell did not lie. He uttered a fact. Deal with it.
 

ZiprHead

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The speaker wishes the listener to think that African Americans are not having their vote suppressed.
They're not, and the evidence that they're not is that they vote at the same rate as the general electorate.
Will they be after all these voter suppression laws are enacted?
There are no voter suppression laws being proposed.

Now if--as the left appears to think--minorities are too stupid and/or lazy to reach the minimum required standard to vote--that will come out in future voting statistics after the alleged "voter suppression" laws are enacted.
Now I know you're trippin'.
 

Jarhyn

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Quoting yourself does not make your fantasia a reality.

McConnell did not lie. He uttered a fact. Deal with it.
You moaning and rolling and apologizing for McConnell's lies does not change that...

When you pose it as "African Americans" and "all Americans" it's pretty close.

When you pose it as "Minorities and White Americans" it looks a lot different.

...African Americans are not alone in having their vote suppressed.
 

Metaphor

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Quoting yourself does not make your fantasia a reality.

McConnell did not lie. He uttered a fact. Deal with it.
You moaning and rolling and apologizing for McConnell's lies does not change that...

When you pose it as "African Americans" and "all Americans" it's pretty close.

When you pose it as "Minorities and White Americans" it looks a lot different.

...African Americans are not alone in having their vote suppressed.
McConnell did not lie. He uttered a factual statement. Get over it.
 

Jarhyn

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McConnell did not lie. He uttered a factual statement. Get over it.
He uttered a factual statement with the clear intent to cover up another factual statement, namely:
When you pose it as "African Americans" and "all Americans" it's pretty close.

When you pose it as "Minorities and White Americans" it looks a lot different.

...African Americans are not alone in having their vote suppressed.

Uttering a statement to cover up another statement, when it is known to cover a statement, is a lie.

I am accusing McConnell of lying, by that definition.

Do you wish to argue that:
"Uttering a statement to cover up another statement, when it is known to cover a statement"

Is not fucked up and evil behavior?

Because with me it's either argue exactly that "Uttering a statement to cover up another statement, when it is known to cover a statement" is or is not "fucked up and evil behavior"

Or

Whether McConnell "Uttered a statement to cover up another statement, when it is known to cover a statement".

We can descend into all the ways that second thing, of he did not know it to cover another thing, not wish to, impute him as an idiot, or as making a racist Freudian slip, or merely insensitive and callous, and none of these things speak to competency as a representative.

I repeat, McConnell Uttered that we don't need to address voter suppression, and his reasoning was that massive, reeking abuse of statistics, complete with a golden studding of sweet corn.

When you pose it as "Minorities and White Americans" it looks a lot different.

...African Americans are not alone in having their vote suppressed.
 

Metaphor

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McConnell did not lie. He uttered a factual statement. Get over it.
He uttered a factual statement with the clear intent to cover up another factual statement, namely:
When you pose it as "African Americans" and "all Americans" it's pretty close.

When you pose it as "Minorities and White Americans" it looks a lot different.

...African Americans are not alone in having their vote suppressed.

Uttering a statement to cover up another statement, when it is known to cover a statement, is a lie.

I am accusing McConnell of lying, by that definition.

Do you wish to argue that:
"Uttering a statement to cover up another statement, when it is known to cover a statement"

Is not fucked up and evil behavior?

Because with me it's either argue exactly that "Uttering a statement to cover up another statement, when it is known to cover a statement" is or is not "fucked up and evil behavior"

Or

Whether McConnell "Uttered a statement to cover up another statement, when it is known to cover a statement".

We can descend into all the ways that second thing, of he did not know it to cover another thing, not wish to, impute him as an idiot, or as making a racist Freudian slip, or merely insensitive and callous, and none of these things speak to competency as a representative.

I repeat, McConnell Uttered that we don't need to address voter suppression, and his reasoning was that massive, reeking abuse of statistics, complete with a golden studding of sweet corn.

When you pose it as "Minorities and White Americans" it looks a lot different.

...African Americans are not alone in having their vote suppressed.
There's no voter suppression. If you are proposing voter suppression, you can adduce evidence for it first.

McConnell uttered a fact, facts are not lies, get over it.
 

Jarhyn

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"Uttering a statement to cover up another statement, when it is known to cover a statement"
"fucked up and evil behavior"?
 

Metaphor

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facts are not lies
It seems we're at
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"Uttering a statement to cover up another statement, when it is known to cover a statement"
"fucked up and evil behavior"?
Incoherent statements, like the ones you have presented above, are not even lies. They're just incoherent.

Anyway, the minority vote is not "suppressed", there is no evidence that it is "suppressed", and I have no particular problem with people, including McConnell, uttering truthful statements about the evidence that reflects that fact.

That you have a problem with truthful statements being uttered is your own problem to understand and deal with.
 

Jarhyn

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"Uttering a statement to cover up another statement, when it is known to cover a statement"
"fucked up and evil behavior"?
Incoherent statements... They're just incoherent.
Ah, back to what certainly seems like gaslighting. Maybe someone else can chime in with the Captain obvious where someone has to ELI5 a simple question to the elderly.

Anyway, the minority vote is not "suppressed", there is no evidence that it is "suppressed"
When you pose it as "African Americans" and "all Americans" it's pretty close.

When you pose it as "Minorities and White Americans" it looks a lot different...

...African Americans are not alone in having their vote suppressed.
 

Metaphor

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"Uttering a statement to cover up another statement, when it is known to cover a statement"
"fucked up and evil behavior"?
Incoherent statements... They're just incoherent.
Ah, back to what certainly seems like gaslighting. Maybe someone else can chime in with the Captain obvious where someone has to ELI5 a simple question to the elderly.

Anyway, the minority vote is not "suppressed", there is no evidence that it is "suppressed"
When you pose it as "African Americans" and "all Americans" it's pretty close.

When you pose it as "Minorities and White Americans" it looks a lot different...

...African Americans are not alone in having their vote suppressed.
There is no evidence that the minority vote is being suppressed. When you can show laws that target racial minorities by race I will reconsider that.
 

Jarhyn

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There is no evidence that the minority vote is being suppressed. When you can show laws that target racial minorities by race I will reconsider that.

It's right there.

A law does not have to target am individual minority by race by name to target them, especially through general trends. You set standards which are ridiculous and designed to fail.
 

Metaphor

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There is no evidence that the minority vote is being suppressed. When you can show laws that target racial minorities by race I will reconsider that.

It's right there.

A law does not have to target am individual minority by race by name to target them, especially through general trends. You set standards which are ridiculous and designed to fail.
I haven't set any standard.

McConnell uttered a true statement. Deal with it.
 

Toni

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There is no evidence that the minority vote is being suppressed. When you can show laws that target racial minorities by race I will reconsider that.

It's right there.

A law does not have to target am individual minority by race by name to target them, especially through general trends. You set standards which are ridiculous and designed to fail.
I haven't set any standard.

McConnell uttered a true statement. Deal with it.
It is unsurprising that you see it that way.
 

Swammerdami

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I do not know how you Infidels have the patience to deal with this! Especially when the same lies and half-truths are repeated over and over and over. (BTW, poor people more generally and college students are also groups that tend to vote Democratic: they have also been targeted by Republican suppression schemes.)

The GOP is clever enough — if "clever" is an appropriate word to describe blatantly criminal malice — to suppress black votes without legislation that explicitly contains the word "black." Recently I read of a county with very large area that will be given only a single polling place in future elections. Any bets on what the demographics of that county are, Mr. Metaphor? In some states, voters had to queue for several hours to vote in some precincts, while there were no delays in affluent neighborhoods. Why?

@Metaphor — Why do YOU think the GOP, when in control, adopts measures that appear to be suppression? Do you have enough intellectual curiosity to investigate why queuing times are so different within one state? Or do you just swallow the QOP lie that such things are happenstance?

One of the "cleverest" things the GOP did several years ago was a computer search to find duplicated names. If a "Robert J. Williams" was noticed in one state and someone of the same name in a different state, BOTH names could be flagged and the voters could be turned away on Election Day. It is easy to apply such laws selectively. ("Of course we know you're OK, Bobby Joe! This don' apply to good ol' boys like y'all!")

Believe it or don't this duplicate name detection is inherently biased against Blacks. Among the five most common surnames in the U.S., 22.2% of Smiths are Black, 33.8% of Johnsons, 34.5% of Browns, 37.7% of Joneses and a whopping 46.7% of Williamses are Blacks. (Some QOP analyst probably got a free ride at the Trump-Epstein joy ranch for this clever insight.)
 

Rhea

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Especially when the same lies and half-truths are repeated over and over and over.
That’s a tactic, not an accident. Repeat the same claim over and over to get it wedged into memory as if it had supporting evidence when it never did.

For example, implying that because McConnell “told a truth” that it was not also deliberately deceptive.

McConnell compared a subset to the whole. He did this on purpose because comparing the subsets to each other shows that the GOP is supressing minority votes, while comparing the subset to the whole hides the numbers in a larger pool.

Many willfully malevolent people like this frame, because it allows uninformed people to support their deliberate malice.

It is deceptive, and it is not an accident. The uninformed can’t detect the deception. And that’s why the malevolent use it.

It’s simple deception by math. Look, we can hide half of the effect by diluting the difference in the larger pool of numbers and then declare that the effect is small. Throw on a couple of layers of paint and you’ll never notice that dent.

And the uninformed will let themselves look only at the paint and call it a “truth.”

The GOP is clever enough — if "clever" is an appropriate word to describe blatantly criminal malice — to suppress black votes without legislation that explicitly contains the word "black."
And conservatives and racists have been doing this in America since the beginning. The “poll taxes” and the “poll tests” were all designed to do this. This is so well known that the malevolent have to resort to the repetition of the deception to maintain it. And the uninformed help them by hugging their prejudices tighter than their reason.
One of the "cleverest" things the GOP did several years ago was a computer search to find duplicated names. If a "Robert J. Williams" was noticed in one state and someone of the same name in a different state, BOTH names could be flagged and the voters could be turned away on Election Day. It is easy to apply such laws selectively. ("Of course we know you're OK, Bobby Joe! This don' apply to good ol' boys like y'all!")

Believe it or don't this duplicate name detection is inherently biased against Blacks. Among the five most common surnames in the U.S., 22.2% of Smiths are Black, 33.8% of Johnsons, 34.5% of Browns, 37.7% of Joneses and a whopping 46.7% of Williamses are Blacks. (Some QOP analyst probably got a free ride at the Trump-Epstein joy ranch for this clever insight.)
And they have many many more.

It can be seen in the size and number of polling stations. The IDs considered acceptable, the number and placement of locations to get IDs, the hours of the polling stations, the poll watcher actions. The acts to deprive citizens of the right to vote and the purges of voting rolls.

And they are quantified in the comparison of the number of black or minority voters turned away from voting versus the number of white voters. And that strong signal can be hidden by comparing minority voters to the whole pool, thereby subtracting the suppression of minority votes from the signal. Not an accident. But repeated again and again by those who either want to deceive or those too uninformed to detect the deception, but whose support is needed to enact the suppression.

Mitch McConnel deceived, on purpose, by using inapproriate data. The data was “true,” but misused, and therefore a decpetion.

Some people fell for it. Some celebrated the chance to deceive while claiming deniability. And both of those groups enabled voter suppression.
 

Jarhyn

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Especially when the same lies and half-truths are repeated over and over and over.
That’s a tactic, not an accident. Repeat the same claim over and over to get it wedged into memory as if it had supporting evidence when it never did.

For example, implying that because McConnell “told a truth” that it was not also deliberately deceptive.

McConnell compared a subset to the whole. He did this on purpose because comparing the subsets to each other shows that the GOP is supressing minority votes, while comparing the subset to the whole hides the numbers in a larger pool.

Many willfully malevolent people like this frame, because it allows uninformed people to support their deliberate malice.

It is deceptive, and it is not an accident. The uninformed can’t detect the deception. And that’s why the malevolent use it.

It’s simple deception by math. Look, we can hide half of the effect by diluting the difference in the larger pool of numbers and then declare that the effect is small. Throw on a couple of layers of paint and you’ll never notice that dent.

And the uninformed will let themselves look only at the paint and call it a “truth.”

The GOP is clever enough — if "clever" is an appropriate word to describe blatantly criminal malice — to suppress black votes without legislation that explicitly contains the word "black."
And conservatives and racists have been doing this in America since the beginning. The “poll taxes” and the “poll tests” were all designed to do this. This is so well known that the malevolent have to resort to the repetition of the deception to maintain it. And the uninformed help them by hugging their prejudices tighter than their reason.
One of the "cleverest" things the GOP did several years ago was a computer search to find duplicated names. If a "Robert J. Williams" was noticed in one state and someone of the same name in a different state, BOTH names could be flagged and the voters could be turned away on Election Day. It is easy to apply such laws selectively. ("Of course we know you're OK, Bobby Joe! This don' apply to good ol' boys like y'all!")

Believe it or don't this duplicate name detection is inherently biased against Blacks. Among the five most common surnames in the U.S., 22.2% of Smiths are Black, 33.8% of Johnsons, 34.5% of Browns, 37.7% of Joneses and a whopping 46.7% of Williamses are Blacks. (Some QOP analyst probably got a free ride at the Trump-Epstein joy ranch for this clever insight.)
And they have many many more.

It can be seen in the size and number of polling stations. The IDs considered acceptable, the number and placement of locations to get IDs, the hours of the polling stations, the poll watcher actions. The acts to deprive citizens of the right to vote and the purges of voting rolls.

And they are quantified in the comparison of the number of black or minority voters turned away from voting versus the number of white voters. And that strong signal can be hidden by comparing minority voters to the whole pool, thereby subtracting the suppression of minority votes from the signal. Not an accident. But repeated again and again by those who either want to deceive or those too uninformed to detect the deception, but whose support is needed to enact the suppression.

Mitch McConnel deceived, on purpose, by using inapproriate data. The data was “true,” but misused, and therefore a decpetion.

Some people fell for it. Some celebrated the chance to deceive while claiming deniability. And both of those groups enabled voter suppression.
Yes. 100%.

When you pose it as "African Americans" and "all Americans" it's pretty close.

When you pose it as "Minorities and White Americans" it looks a lot different: African Americans are not alone in having their vote suppressed.

I choose to believe that McConnell is not incompetent or a fool, and that leaves that he uttered a statement to cover up another statement, when it is known to cover a statement, which is fucked up and evil behavior.
 

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My husband just watched a video and I couldn't believe what my ears heard from across the room.

I made him replay the video.

McConnell's "Freudian" slipped out.
I don't have much knowledge of psychology, but as I've always understood it from a layman's POV,, there are "Freudian slips" and then there are simple "mispeaks" The former being tied to subconcious beliefs or feelings (often insidious), while the latter is just basic flubbing of words and sentences, something everyone does pretty much daily (unless they are socially isolated to some degree). So, in general, how does one determine whether something said is a genuine "Freudian Slip" or just a simple flubbing of words? Do you need to know a person's background before declaring its a "Freudian Slip", or is it something that is obvious to a casual observer, if you know what to look for? One real life example I can think of from recent times is a TV news anchor who referred to Martin Luther King Day as Martin Luther Coon Day, live on the air. IIRC, he was fired for that, despite his personal protestations that he was not a racist and it was a really unfortunate slip of the tongue. Can we be certain that it was a Freudian Slip, or do we give him the benefit of the doubt? How did you determine that Mitch McConnell's statement was a Freudian Slip and not a mispeak?

For that matter, is a Freudian Slip even a concept that is accepted by the scientific community these days? I know a lot of Freud's ideas have largely been poo-pooed these days, so maybe that one is also?
 

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there are "Freudian slips" and then there are simple "mispeaks" The former being tied to subconcious beliefs or feelings (often insidious), while the latter is just basic flubbing of words and sentences, something everyone does pretty much daily

Can we be certain that it was a Freudian Slip, or do we give him the benefit of the doubt?

My contention is that it is NEITHER a Freudian slip NOR a misspeak.
It is deception. Planned, deliberate and calculated.

He knows minorities have their votes surpressed. He wants to hide that. So he used deceptive math to compare the rate of one sub-group to the whole, thereby hiding the benefits accruing to white voters by including the suppression of minority voters in their number.

The kerfluffle over “freudian slip” actually plays right into McConnell’s hands because people are talking about McConnell and not the voter suppression (right wing fraud) on minority voters.
 

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My contention is that it is NEITHER a Freudian slip NOR a misspeak.
It is deception. Planned, deliberate and calculated.

^^^^ This!

McConnell didn't let slip some unconcious bias. He didn't mispeak.

He said exactly what would help maintain his power in the Trumpista's world. He didn't acquire and keep that much power by slipping up. His statement was market tested.
Tom

ETA ~McConnell has enough power to overrule The Constitution. He's not just another politician, much less an average citizen.
When he decided to ignore the process laid out for SCOTUS replacement judges he simply overruled The Constitution. For partisan purposes.
That was McConnell's defining moment. When he put personal power over basic U.S. institutions. ~
 

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McConnell's "Freudian" slipped out.
I don't have much knowledge of psychology, but as I've always understood it from a layman's POV,, there are "Freudian slips" and then there are simple "mispeaks" The former being tied to subconcious beliefs or feelings (often insidious), while the latter is just basic flubbing of words and sentences, ...
IIRC an example Freud himself used was a patient who said "play" when "pay" was intended. (And in fact that patient stiffed the analyst.)

If McConnell had intended "all Americans", it would have been normal for him to say "Americans as a whole" or such. He didn't. The likeliest explanation IMO is that subconsciously he used "Americans" to denote "real (white) Americans."
 

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If McConnell had intended "all Americans", it would have been normal for him to say "Americans as a whole" or such. He didn't. The likeliest explanation IMO is that subconsciously he used "Americans" to denote "real (white) Americans."


I think it is more likely that he wanted people to think “white Americans” while he used the number for “all Americans.”

So his lack of clarity was deliberate, as it was his intent to deceive and make people think the difference between black voter accessibility and white voter accessibility was small, despite him knowing for certain that it is large and he wants to make it larger.

But he wants to hide that, and so the ambiguous words to make you think one thing (small difference, which is incorrect) while retaining plausibility that he was not “lying” (which he was, in trying to amke people think the opposite).

The “poorly worded” statement is the plan.
 

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How does Mitch feel about Asian Americans voting? His wife (Elaine Chao) is Asian. I wonder if he thinks Asians count as "white Americans" or if he wants to suppress their vote like with other PoC?
 

Rhea

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How does Mitch feel about Asian Americans voting? His wife (Elaine Chao) is Asian. I wonder if he thinks Asians count as "white Americans" or if he wants to suppress their vote like with other PoC?
It would not surprise me even a little bit if he wanted to suppress Asian votes, except his wife’s.
 

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How does Mitch feel about Asian Americans voting? His wife (Elaine Chao) is Asian. I wonder if he thinks Asians count as "white Americans" or if he wants to suppress their vote like with other PoC?
It would not surprise me even a little bit if he wanted to suppress Asian votes, except his wife’s.
He sure is a sneaky guy.
 

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How does Mitch feel about Asian Americans voting? His wife (Elaine Chao) is Asian. I wonder if he thinks Asians count as "white Americans" or if he wants to suppress their vote like with other PoC?
Have you never met a racist somehow? They often brag about their amicable relationships with individual people of minority race, as proof of their supposed tolerance. If they are a sitting legislator, though, let alone a former Senate Majority Leader, I care a lot more about their actual record than who they are friends with. I don't give a shit whether Mitch McConnell is a racist in his home, it's out on the streets of America that he poses a danger to our collective wellbeing.
 

thebeave

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How does Mitch feel about Asian Americans voting? His wife (Elaine Chao) is Asian. I wonder if he thinks Asians count as "white Americans" or if he wants to suppress their vote like with other PoC?
Have you never met a racist somehow? They often brag about their amicable relationships with individual people of minority race, as proof of their supposed tolerance. If they are a sitting legislator, though, let alone a former Senate Majority Leader, I care a lot more about their actual record than who they are friends with. I don't give a shit whether Mitch McConnell is a racist in his home, it's out on the streets of America that he poses a danger to our collective wellbeing.

You mean a record like this?:

How Mitch McConnell Enabled Barack Obama

In 1964, an ambitious young student at the University of Louisville made an impassioned plea to his classmates, urging them to march in solidarity with Martin Luther King Jr. At the time, Kentucky was no haven for race reformers—it was dominated by some of the same elements of the Democratic Party that vehemently rejected the very notion of civil rights. Nevertheless, this 20-year-old activist called for strong statutes, state and federal, to protect the dignity of minorities. “Property rights have always been, and will continue to be, an integral part of our heritage,” he wrote in the campus newspaper, “but this does not absolve the property holder of his obligation to help ensure the basic rights of all citizens.” The student’s name was Mitch McConnell.

Then, as now, McConnell was a dedicated Republican, but in his younger days, he was also a very high-minded one. As an up-and-coming activist, he declined to work on Barry Goldwater’s reactionary presidential campaign. Instead, his biographer, John David Dyche, told me, he advocated for the civil rights supporter Henry Cabot Lodge Jr. His role model was Kentucky Republican Senator John Sherman Cooper, an outspoken opponent of the Vietnam war who helped defeat a filibuster of the Civil Rights Act. He admired Lyndon Johnson’s legislative mastery, Dyche said, and believed politics could serve a larger purpose.
 

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Bold of you to try and start a conversation on McConnell and the Voting Rights Act! I do read the news, you know.
 

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How does Mitch feel about Asian Americans voting? His wife (Elaine Chao) is Asian. I wonder if he thinks Asians count as "white Americans" or if he wants to suppress their vote like with other PoC?
Among my personal acquaintances, it’s not at all unusual for conservative white men to have eastern Asian wives or girlfriends.
 

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How does Mitch feel about Asian Americans voting? His wife (Elaine Chao) is Asian. I wonder if he thinks Asians count as "white Americans" or if he wants to suppress their vote like with other PoC?
Among my personal acquaintances, it’s not at all unusual for conservative white men to have eastern Asian wives or girlfriends.
There does tend to be some sort of power imbalance involved. In socially conservative circles, at least since the late 70s or so, it's okay for a man to have an Asian wife, a Cuban houseservant, an adopted child from the Bronx, etc. They can even wax rhapsodic about how much they love them. But a woman who wants to get ahead in Conservative circles is not going to brag about her Black husband, nor a white man about his abiding friendship with his Indian boss and mentor.

Not that I think Mitch McConnell gets to boss Elaine Chao around much! She's a true powerhouse, and he's in debt to her similarly impressive father. But there still has to be at least the appearance of "proper social relationships" in order for right wing social discourse to comfortably tolerate inclusion.
 

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How does Mitch feel about Asian Americans voting? His wife (Elaine Chao) is Asian. I wonder if he thinks Asians count as "white Americans" or if he wants to suppress their vote like with other PoC?
Among my personal acquaintances, it’s not at all unusual for conservative white men to have eastern Asian wives or girlfriends.
There does tend to be some sort of power imbalance involved. In socially conservative circles, at least since the late 70s or so, it's okay for a man to have an Asian wife, a Cuban houseservant, an adopted child from the Bronx, etc. They can even wax rhapsodic about how much they love them. But a woman who wants to get ahead in Conservative circles is not going to brag about her Black husband, nor a white man about his abiding friendship with his Indian boss and mentor.

Not that I think Mitch McConnell gets to boss Elaine Chao around much! She's a powerhouse. But there still has to be at least the appearance of "proper social relationships" in order for right wing social discourse to comfortably tolerate inclusion.
Oh, for certain there is or was a stereotype that eastern Asian women are very subservient but that is also not my observation.

I think that the Clarence/Ginny Thomas marriage is another marriage that runs counter to stereotypes of conservatives.
 

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There is abundant evidence that the GOP would attempt to suppress any group's vote if they thought that group was going to vote against them.

It is beyond naivete to think Mr. McConnell's characterization of voting turnout by African Americans is accurate.

I don't care if that old man's utterance is the result of a brain fart or if it intentional because it is a falsehood.
 

Jarhyn

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Well I'm glad the title managed to generate such a vigorous discussion of McConnell's fucked up and evil behavior insofar as that he uttered a statement to cover up another statement, when it is known to cover a statement.

Huzzah
 

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How does Mitch feel about Asian Americans voting? His wife (Elaine Chao) is Asian. I wonder if he thinks Asians count as "white Americans" or if he wants to suppress their vote like with other PoC?
Have you never met a racist somehow? They often brag about their amicable relationships with individual people of minority race, as proof of their supposed tolerance. If they are a sitting legislator, though, let alone a former Senate Majority Leader, I care a lot more about their actual record than who they are friends with. I don't give a shit whether Mitch McConnell is a racist in his home, it's out on the streets of America that he poses a danger to our collective wellbeing.

You mean a record like this?:

How Mitch McConnell Enabled Barack Obama

In 1964, an ambitious young student at the University of Louisville made an impassioned plea to his classmates, urging them to march in solidarity with Martin Luther King Jr. At the time, Kentucky was no haven for race reformers—it was dominated by some of the same elements of the Democratic Party that vehemently rejected the very notion of civil rights. Nevertheless, this 20-year-old activist called for strong statutes, state and federal, to protect the dignity of minorities. “Property rights have always been, and will continue to be, an integral part of our heritage,” he wrote in the campus newspaper, “but this does not absolve the property holder of his obligation to help ensure the basic rights of all citizens.” The student’s name was Mitch McConnell.

Then, as now, McConnell was a dedicated Republican, but in his younger days, he was also a very high-minded one. As an up-and-coming activist, he declined to work on Barry Goldwater’s reactionary presidential campaign. Instead, his biographer, John David Dyche, told me, he advocated for the civil rights supporter Henry Cabot Lodge Jr. His role model was Kentucky Republican Senator John Sherman Cooper, an outspoken opponent of the Vietnam war who helped defeat a filibuster of the Civil Rights Act. He admired Lyndon Johnson’s legislative mastery, Dyche said, and believed politics could serve a larger purpose.
That was then. This is now.
 

Rhea

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That was then. This is now.
Indeed, it’s hardly a positive character trait when a person regresses from being “high-minded” to being grasping, trnasactional and fascist.

If it were the reverse, I might laud him. But he regressed, and that gets no cheer.
 

Metaphor

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The GOP is clever enough — if "clever" is an appropriate word to describe blatantly criminal malice — to suppress black votes without legislation that explicitly contains the word "black." Recently I read of a county with very large area that will be given only a single polling place in future elections. Any bets on what the demographics of that county are, Mr. Metaphor?
I have no idea what State you are talking about or what the situation was before or how many people vote there. So no, I don't know what the demographics are.

In some states, voters had to queue for several hours to vote in some precincts, while there were no delays in affluent neighborhoods. Why?
Why indeed? Since I cannot verify anything you are saying, what do you want my response to be? Some states have large rural populations, versus urban, versus city. I suspect all of those populations have different access.
@Metaphor — Why do YOU think the GOP, when in control, adopts measures that appear to be suppression? Do you have enough intellectual curiosity to investigate why queuing times are so different within one state? Or do you just swallow the QOP lie that such things are happenstance?
No. You have moved the stasis of the argument too far. When did I say they appeared to be suppression but where not suppression? They appear to be suppression to some Democrats who think the GOP is morally bankrupt, sure, I'll give you that. Funnily enough, however, it is the Democrats who appear to think the appearance to them is the disinterested one.

Every alleged "voter suppression" bill I have seen appears to me to be perfectly reasonable, including ones that 'restrict' voting conditions but still make voting conditions more 'generous' than some Democrat-run states that nobody complains about. From my perspective, I actually cannot believe how lax some voting conditions are in some American states.
 

Metaphor

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So he used deceptive math to compare the rate of one sub-group to the whole, thereby hiding the benefits accruing to white voters by including the suppression of minority voters in their number.
Subgroups are compared to the whole all the time in a variety of statistics. In unemployment, in health statistics, in public policy statistics of virtually every kind.
 

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When subgroups are used to bury a systemic difference within data, or in other words to
utter a statement to cover up another statement, when it is known to cover a statement,
this is generally recognized as evil and fucked up behavior.
 

Loren Pechtel

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Anyway, the minority vote is not "suppressed", there is no evidence that it is "suppressed", and I have no particular problem with people, including McConnell, uttering truthful statements about the evidence that reflects that fact.

That you have a problem with truthful statements being uttered is your own problem to understand and deal with.

Technically correct.

What's suppressed is poor people's vote. This is very deliberate:


There's a racial pattern to it because black people are disproportionately poor, but the objective is economic, not racial.
 

Metaphor

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When subgroups are used to bury a systemic difference within data, or in other words to
utter a statement to cover up another statement, when it is known to cover a statement,
this is generally recognized as evil and fucked up behavior.
Your assessment of popular morality ("generally recognised") is not something I trust.
 

Jarhyn

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When subgroups are used to bury a systemic difference within data, or in other words to
utter a statement to cover up another statement, when it is known to cover a statement,
this is generally recognized as evil and fucked up behavior.
Your assessment of popular morality ("generally recognised") is not something I trust.
Well, I asked if you recognized whether (see explicitly bolded portion).

I even bolded it knowing you would respond with this.

So, is to utter a statement to cover up another statement, when it is known to cover a statement evil and fucked up behavior? I asked you this and you claimed to not even understand the question.

How can I expect that you even understand my assessment of actual ethics, your morality be damned?
 

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I don't have much knowledge of psychology, but as I've always understood it from a layman's POV,, there are "Freudian slips" and then there are simple "mispeaks" The former being tied to subconcious beliefs or feelings (often insidious), while the latter is just basic flubbing of words and sentences, something everyone does pretty much daily (unless they are socially isolated to some degree). So, in general, how does one determine whether something said is a genuine "Freudian Slip" or just a simple flubbing of words? Do you need to know a person's background before declaring its a "Freudian Slip", or is it something that is obvious to a casual observer, if you know what to look for? One real life example I can think of from recent times is a TV news anchor who referred to Martin Luther King Day as Martin Luther Coon Day, live on the air. IIRC, he was fired for that, despite his personal protestations that he was not a racist and it was a really unfortunate slip of the tongue. Can we be certain that it was a Freudian Slip, or do we give him the benefit of the doubt? How did you determine that Mitch McConnell's statement was a Freudian Slip and not a mispeak?

For that matter, is a Freudian Slip even a concept that is accepted by the scientific community these days? I know a lot of Freud's ideas have largely been poo-pooed these days, so maybe that one is also?

Yeah, the whole idea is nuts in my book. Today, my wife asked me to put her shrimp in the microwave for 40 minutes--and it's certainly not the first time she's done that. Does she secretly crave food burned to a crisp, or does she occasionally mix up units in what is not a native language to her?
 

Metaphor

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When subgroups are used to bury a systemic difference within data, or in other words to
utter a statement to cover up another statement, when it is known to cover a statement,
this is generally recognized as evil and fucked up behavior.
Your assessment of popular morality ("generally recognised") is not something I trust.
Well, I asked if you recognized whether (see explicitly bolded portion).

I even bolded it knowing you would respond with this.

So, is to utter a statement to cover up another statement, when it is known to cover a statement evil and fucked up behavior? I asked you this and you claimed to not even understand the question.

so how can I expect that you even understand my assessment of actual ethics, your morality be damned?
I have already responded to your bolded part multiple times. I do not agree that McConnell uttered a fact to 'cover up' another fact, and your fantasia that he did is your own problem to deal with.

The minority leader made the remark at a news conference in Washington on Wednesday, when he was asked about concerns that people of color have about voting rights.

“The concern is misplaced because if you look at the statistics, African American voters are voting in just as high a percentage as Americans,” McConnell said.

The only possible thing that McConnell got wrong here is that 'people of color' refers to more than just black people (and to be honest I never know what people are talking about when they say it - they could mean black people, they could mean all non-white people, they could mean all non-white people except Asians, etc).

You've got a lot of heavy lifting to do. You have to show evidence that the 'discussion' was about a group that was not black people, that McConnell knew this, and that McConnell quickly formulated a statement that was a fact, but he did it in order to cover another fact up.

You haven't done any of that heavy lifting. Roll up your robe sleeves.
 

Toni

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Anyway, the minority vote is not "suppressed", there is no evidence that it is "suppressed", and I have no particular problem with people, including McConnell, uttering truthful statements about the evidence that reflects that fact.

That you have a problem with truthful statements being uttered is your own problem to understand and deal with.

Technically correct.

What's suppressed is poor people's vote. This is very deliberate:


There's a racial pattern to it because black people are disproportionately poor, but the objective is economic, not racial.
Black and Hispanic people in TX are more likely to be low income compared with white people in TX.

I read and listened to your link and I don't get how you have come to the conclusion that the objective is to make it harder for poor people to vote, not Hispanic and Black people.
 

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<A Derail (shame on you! But fuck me if I'm not laughing)>
So, there is a phenomena in which humans, at least the ones of us with internal dialogue, accidentally blurt out the contents of that internal dialogue.

I have experienced this, and I have absolutely been incomplete or inconsice or ambiguous enough against my "lingual surface" to keep from uttering something of my inner voice out loud, even if I was in the process of trying to "dissipate" the thought.

"Freudian slip" is just the vernacular for when that happens, because Freud first recognized the phenomena academically, even if he was wrong of the particulars of what happens in the mind, as I probably also am, though probably less so.
 

Jarhyn

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do not agree that McConnell uttered a fact to 'cover up' another fact
I did not ask in the post you are responding to whether McConnell did that thing. Whether he did that thing is not important yet.

I asked whether to utter a statement to cover up another statement, when it is known to cover a statement, is evil and fucked up behavior.

Is uttering a statement to cover up another statement, when it is known to cover a statement evil and fucked up behavior?
 
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