Merci Mack, a Black woman killed in Dallas, is 18th transgender death this year

[Derec]

Someone was murdered. That's not an opportunity for your racist screeds. Please stay on topic.

First of all, Trausti was not engaging in any "racist screeds". He merely pointed out the double standard on race that exists in our society.
And it was neither Trausti nor I who brought up racial categories such as so-called "BIPOC" into the discussion. That would be KrIS. Go complain to him about it!

 

[repoman]

"The death rate in the Navy during Spanish-American War," writes Darrell Huff in his classic, How to Lie with Statistics, "was nine per thousand. For civilians in New York City during the same period, it was sixteen per thousand." The American Government used these statistics to entice young people to join the Navy, proving that, paradoxically, "it was safer to be in the Navy than out of it."

The argument is, apparently, linear, but the Navy was (and still is) composed mostly of healthy young people, while the civilian population includes infants, the elderly, and the sick, who have a higher mortality rate regardless of where they are. But this information, although methodologically crucial, was omitted from the recruitment campaigns.

So is this happening with this topic

 

[Derec]

[citation needed]

https://www.hrc.org/resources/violence-against-the-transgender-community-in-2019

Yes, you posted that article already. It doesn't make up the same point you do.

This covers known homicides of transgender people murdered in the United States. For that 2019 data set, over 20 out of 26 were black. 2018, 18 out of 26 were black. Hispanic people possibly represent the next larrgers group.

The problem is that these numbers are quite small that the proportion observed could easily be due to chance.

BIPOC, like LGBTQ, represents recognition of groups which face similar challenges, but whose causes don't always align exactly. For instance not all issues concerning indigenous rights pertain to the rights of people of colour in general.

In other words, it's about excluding (or "othering" in Woke Newspeak) white people.

'Disproportionate' was referring to known cases where transgender people have been murdered.

But you cannot conclude that it's "disproportionate" much less "alarmingly disproportionate" if you admit the data are bad.

When I was talking about half-baked analysis, I was talking about particular trends of trying to downplay (or in some cases overstate) the murder rates of transgender people against the broader population.

You can't pick and choose. You can't decry "half-baked analysis" on one hand and then engage in "quarter-baked analysis" where you just look at raw data and draw conclusions about something being "alarmingly disproportionate"

In any case, I do not think whether Merci Mack was black or not and whether she was trans or not should matter at all. She was murdered (presumably) and the case should be throughly investigated and the guilty parties brought to justice.

It's difficult to come to a meaningful number. While groups such as Human Rights Campaign do talk in terms of numbers, the concerns expressed are based on the particulars of individual cases.

US had almost 20k homicide deaths in 2017 (see Table 6 in the appendix here). I do not see why trans homicides should matter more than all those.

 

[krypton iodine sulfur]

Yes, you posted that article already. It doesn't make up the same point you do.

It literally makes the point I did. It was posted in the thread before, but not by me.

In other words, it's about excluding (or "othering" in Woke Newspeak) white people.

Only if you interpret it in bad faith or are kinda full of shit.

But you cannot conclude that it's "disproportionate" much less "alarmingly disproportionate" if you admit the data are bad.

You can't pick and choose. You can't decry "half-baked analysis" on one hand and then engage in "quarter-baked analysis" where you just look at raw data and draw conclusions about something being "alarmingly disproportionate"

Different data sets.

US had almost 20k homicide deaths in 2017 (see Table 6 in the appendix here). I do not see why trans homicides should matter more than all those.

They don't matter more. It's not stated or implied.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

Someone was murdered. That's not an opportunity for your racist screeds. Please stay on topic.

First of all, Trausti was not engaging in any "racist screeds". He merely pointed out the double standard on race that exists in our society.
And it was neither Trausti nor I who brought up racial categories such as so-called "BIPOC" into the discussion. That would be KrIS. Go complain to him about it!

Fuck off and get on topic.

 

[Derec]

Fuck off and get on topic.

I did. Get on topic that is. But it wasn't I who derailed it.

 

[Derec]

It literally makes the point I did. It was posted in the thread before, but not by me.

Disagree, but ok. You already admitted the data are not good, so let's leave it at that.

Only if you interpret it in bad faith or are kinda full of shit.

How else am I supposed to interpret it when all these disparate groups are lumped together but white people are explicitly excluded?

Different data sets.

And neither sufficient to make that kind of conclusion.

They don't matter more. It's not stated or implied.

It is when articles are written specifically about trans murder victims.

 

[krypton iodine sulfur]

Disagree, but ok. You already admitted the data are not good, so let's leave it at that.

DIFFERENT DATA SET.

How else am I supposed to interpret it when all these disparate groups are lumped together but white people are explicitly excluded?

It's based on experiences being in minority demographics with regard to ethnicity/ race.

And neither sufficient to make that kind of conclusion.

We can observe a pattern in known murders--143 murders across five and a half years, I believe.

It is when articles are written specifically about trans murder victims.

So if an article is written about penguins, we can assume the author believes penguins matter more than all other birds?

 

[Toni]

If over a relatively short period of time, 26 pro basketball players were murdered, it would probably be of national interest and some significant concern over the safety of other basketball players and some inquiry as to why pro basketball players were being murdered. Was there something about their line of work or lifestyle that made them more vulnerable? Were other basketball players at risk? What about college players? High school players?

Of course there would be outrage!

So why are some here behaving as though it’s no big deal if some transsexuals are being murdered? Is it because most wereslso engaging in prostitution? No, that can’t be right. These same people who think dead transsexual prostitutes are no big deal are always going on about how prostitution is stigmatized! And the stigma should be removed and decriminalized! It’s pretty easy to see that those who claim to care about prostitutes’ welfare don’t really care at all.

Why are the lives of prostitutes valued less than the lives of pro basketball players?

 

[Metaphor]

If over a relatively short period of time, 26 pro basketball players were murdered, it would probably be of national interest and some significant concern over the safety of other basketball players and some inquiry as to why pro basketball players were being murdered. Was there something about their line of work or lifestyle that made them more vulnerable? Were other basketball players at risk? What about college players? High school players?

Of course there would be outrage!

So why are some here behaving as though it’s no big deal if some transsexuals are being murdered? Is it because most wereslso engaging in prostitution? No, that can’t be right. These same people who think dead transsexual prostitutes are no big deal are always going on about how prostitution is stigmatized! And the stigma should be removed and decriminalized! It’s pretty easy to see that those who claim to care about prostitutes’ welfare don’t really care at all.

Why are the lives of prostitutes valued less than the lives of pro basketball players?

If black transwomen are being killed, you should probably address this to the black men killing them.

 

[Toni]

If over a relatively short period of time, 26 pro basketball players were murdered, it would probably be of national interest and some significant concern over the safety of other basketball players and some inquiry as to why pro basketball players were being murdered. Was there something about their line of work or lifestyle that made them more vulnerable? Were other basketball players at risk? What about college players? High school players?

Of course there would be outrage!

So why are some here behaving as though it’s no big deal if some transsexuals are being murdered? Is it because most wereslso engaging in prostitution? No, that can’t be right. These same people who think dead transsexual prostitutes are no big deal are always going on about how prostitution is stigmatized! And the stigma should be removed and decriminalized! It’s pretty easy to see that those who claim to care about prostitutes’ welfare don’t really care at all.

Why are the lives of prostitutes valued less than the lives of pro basketball players?

If black transwomen are being killed, you should probably address this to the black men killing them.

The murders have been solved? All of these women have been murdered by black men?

Are the deaths of transsexuals only important to transsexuals? Are not the deaths of everyone of importance to society?

It is it just that you dontcarra out these peoples deaths because they are trans? Or is it because they are black?

 

[Trausti]

Are not the deaths of everyone of importance to society?

Clearly not. The high black homicide rate by other blacks in Chicago, Baltimore, etc. is not to be spoke about.

 

[Toni]

Are not the deaths of everyone of importance to society?

Clearly not. The high black homicide rate by other blacks in Chicago, Baltimore, etc. is not to be spoke about.

I see. Black lives don’t matter to you.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

Are not the deaths of everyone of importance to society?

Clearly not. The high black homicide rate by other blacks in Chicago, Baltimore, etc. is not to be spoke about.

Why are you so focused on race all the time?

 

[Metaphor]

The murders have been solved? All of these women have been murdered by black men?

Half of all homicides in America are committed by black people. The vast majority of murders are intraracial, so most of the killers of these black transwomen are almost certainly black (probably men).

Now, it seems to me that, if more than half the transwomen being killed are black transwomen, and I have no good reason to believe that black transwomen make up any more than about 12% of the transwoman population, then black America has a violent problem of transphobia expressed towards transwomen.

Wouldn't you agree? Isn't it a feminist position to address the perpetrators of the crime? Black men.

Are the deaths of transsexuals only important to transsexuals? Are not the deaths of everyone of importance to society?

It is it just that you dontcarra out these peoples deaths because they are trans? Or is it because they are black?

How do you get to there from anything I've said?

 

[Derec]

Why are you so focused on race all the time?

It is the left that is hyperfocused on race - but always with white people as the bad guys. People like Methaphor and I are just spoofing that.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

Why are you so focused on race all the time?

It is the left that is hyperfocused on race - but always with white people as the bad guys. People like Methaphor and I are just spoofing that.

No, you are focused on black men all the time. That and you can't get women, except by committing crimes. You then insult the men you are jealous of by calling them jerks and criminal thugs. So, it's you.

MY POINT was that a person can be described in a gazillion ways. The social construct of race is but a single variable. While it's significant because black persons have been figuratively forced into high crime areas, one could talk economics or sex instead.

Still, even though one COULD do so, you all came into the thread with hate in your hearts...and black this...and black that...and progressive stacks.

Can't you just behave yourself, stay on topic, and participate constructively in a discussion?

 

[Derec]

No, you are focused on black men all the time.

No, I am not. The media, activists and the politicians are. I merely challenge the prevailing orthodoxy on race, that black people are perpetually and eternally "oppressed" and thus must be preferentially treated in perpetuity.

That and you can't get women, except by committing crimes.

TF handbook for hacks, rule 24: when you run out of arguments, make snide comments about Derec's sex life.

You then insult the men you are jealous of by calling them jerks and criminal thugs. So, it's you.

Nope, it's not me. It's media treating these jerks and criminal thugs as heroes. George Floyd was no hero. Neither was Rayshard Brooks. But if you listen to CNN or read NY Times all they talk about is how great they were. Rayshard Brooks cheated on his wife with that arsonist chick, and was in prison for domestic violence but he is depicted as this great family man in the media.

MY POINT was that a person can be described in a gazillion ways.

True. But there are more honest and dishonest way to describe a person.

The social construct of race is but a single variable.

I absolutely agree with you. There is for example no reason to assume that Rayshard Brooks was treated differently by Rolfe because of his race. And yet all media is focusing on is race.
If media was not making a big point about RB being black, but I was continually bringing up his race as if it had relevance, you'd have a point about me. But I do not do that, in fact I deemphasize race continually, so you do not have a point about me.

Same thing here. We do not know why Merci Mack was killed or by whom. We do not know that her race played any role whatsoever. And yet KrIS, not me, focused on her being so-called "BIPOC".

While it's significant because black persons have been figuratively forced into high crime areas, one could talk economics or sex instead.

They have not been forced into any areas for decades. I do see your use of wiggle adverbs though.

Still, even though one COULD do so, you all came into the thread with hate in your hearts...and black this...and black that...and progressive stacks.

I do not hate anybody because of their race. I certainly do not hate Merci Mack. I do want to see her killer(s) brought to justice.
However, I will challenge people like KrIS who try to divide people by race - white people on one side, BIPOC on the other.

Can't you just behave yourself, stay on topic, and participate constructively in a discussion?

I can.

 

[Derec]

I see. Black lives don’t matter to you.

The FG clip is satirizing that attitude and Trausti was certainly not in agreement with it.

 

[Derec]

If over a relatively short period of time, 26 pro basketball players were murdered, it would probably be of national interest and some significant concern over the safety of other basketball players and some inquiry as to why pro basketball players were being murdered. Was there something about their line of work or lifestyle that made them more vulnerable? Were other basketball players at risk? What about college players? High school players?

If 26 pro basketball players were killed in a span of a year, that would represent about 5% of the entire population of professional basketball players (NBA has less than 500 total players).
Are you suggesting there are about that many transwomen in the US? No, it's hundreds of thousands of people, given that 1.4 million people identify as trans in total. That's 0.6% of the population, so it half of that, or 0.3% are trans women, then expected number of homicides (~19k homicides per year) would be 57. So it certainly doesn't seem that trans women are overrepresented among homicide victims. If anything, they seem to be underrepresented!

Of course there would be outrage!

Yes, because some people on here do not understand the concept of per capita crime rates.

So why are some here behaving as though it’s no big deal if some transsexuals are being murdered?

I do not think it's "no big deal" but I also do not think it's bigger deal than any other homicide victim.

Is it because most wereslso engaging in prostitution? No, that can’t be right. These same people who think dead transsexual prostitutes are no big deal are always going on about how prostitution is stigmatized! And the stigma should be removed and decriminalized! It’s pretty easy to see that those who claim to care about prostitutes’ welfare don’t really care at all.

I certainly do not think so! I think sex workers' lives should count as much as anybody else's. If a sex workers is harmed I want police to investigate thoroughly.
But do we even know that Mack was a sex worker to begin with? We certainly do not know who killed her or why. Or is that a red herring?

Why are the lives of prostitutes valued less than the lives of pro basketball players?

Again, there are few professional basketball players in the US. So your example was very poorly conceived.