Message to Biden Voters: stop the street lingo!

[Politesse]

 

[rousseau]

If "appealing to the middle" works so well, why didn't it? Biden was and is the centrist candidate.

We ran Biden, and he won by a slim margin, and you conclude that fear of socialism was the reason why.

If we'd run Bernie, and he won by a slim margin, you would conclude that fear of socialism was the reason why.

If we'd run Biden, and he lost in a landslide, you would conclude that fear of socialism was the reason why.

If we'd run Bernie, and he lost in a landslide, you would conclude that fear of socialism was the reason why.

Well, Biden won, so we have one data point - that is appealing to the middle with a reasonable candidate worked this time. We don't have the benefit of knowing what would have happened had Bernie been the candidate, so we can't make any real conclusions. But people did choose Biden, and Biden did win.

I don't know - I get the desire to transform the U.S., but I see his point. Far left candidates don't even appeal in Canada whose spectrum is much to the left of yours, I just can't envision someone like Sanders being a draw for your moderates or conservatives. If I'm honest politicians like Sanders even scare me a bit. I don't think a ruling party being Centrist is necessarily a bad thing - it's having a conservative party that is extremely regressive that's a problem.

 

[J842P]

View attachment 30202

Um, well yeah, the ultimate goal of conservative activitsts is to abolish public education. What is the argument supposed to be here?

That defunding public education has worked really well, so we should defund public policing?

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I'm glad that AOC is in my party. However, we can't allow her and the squad to drown out all the other voices in the democratic party. And for god's sakes, let's stop using street lingo and stop scarring moderates away from our party. We are not the republicans. We can't win a general election without overwhelming popular support. Biden barely won the election. Incredibly close. And yet, he will end up with 7 or 8 million more votes. Sorry but it's reality: we must be the party of the big tent. Or we'll be toast in 4 years.

I think it would be better for the country if they weren't in Washington. They provide so much ammunition for those who want to portray the Democrats as crazy that they drive people to the party of crazy.

"I wasn't going to join the Nazis, but the threat of free healthcare just pushed me right over the edge."

If that sentence makes sense to you, it's not a mythical moderate middle that's afraid of social progress. It's you.

I strongly suspect that once the Republicans are gone for good, the DNC will take their former place as the home for political conservatives in the US, set against a true Progressive wing.

A true progressive wing will not get enough votes.

 

[Politesse]

"I wasn't going to join the Nazis, but the threat of free healthcare just pushed me right over the edge."

If that sentence makes sense to you, it's not a mythical moderate middle that's afraid of social progress. It's you.

I strongly suspect that once the Republicans are gone for good, the DNC will take their former place as the home for political conservatives in the US, set against a true Progressive wing.

A true progressive wing will not get enough votes.

We were well-represented in this election. Our message becomes more popular with every election. We constitute more than 2/5 of House Democrats at present. Why don't you think that will continue?

 

[Elixir]

"I wasn't going to join the Nazis, but the threat of free healthcare just pushed me right over the edge."

If that sentence makes sense to you, it's not a mythical moderate middle that's afraid of social progress. It's you.

I strongly suspect that once the Republicans are gone for good, the DNC will take their former place as the home for political conservatives in the US, set against a true Progressive wing.

A true progressive wing will not get enough votes.

We were well-represented in this election. Our message becomes more popular with every election. We constitute more than 2/5 of House Democrats at present. Why don't you think that will continue?

It might continue if Dems can pick up those two GA Senate seats.
If not, not much will get done and 2022 could get ugly

 

[Politesse]

It will be ugly anyway. With "friends" like these, who needs enemies? But progressives are accustomed to such treatment. You don't challenge the powerful without reprecussions.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

"I wasn't going to join the Nazis, but the threat of free healthcare just pushed me right over the edge."

If that sentence makes sense to you, it's not a mythical moderate middle that's afraid of social progress. It's you.

I strongly suspect that once the Republicans are gone for good, the DNC will take their former place as the home for political conservatives in the US, set against a true Progressive wing.

A true progressive wing will not get enough votes.

We were well-represented in this election. Our message becomes more popular with every election. We constitute more than 2/5 of House Democrats at present. Why don't you think that will continue?

So you have 20% of the vote. That wins you about zero seats.

 

[Politesse]

We were well-represented in this election. Our message becomes more popular with every election. We constitute more than 2/5 of House Democrats at present. Why don't you think that will continue?

So you have 20% of the vote. That wins you about zero seats.

Every new party starts with zero seats.

 

[prideandfall]

A true progressive wing will not get enough votes.

how could you know that, seeing as how this country has never really had a true progressive in a situation where they had a fair shake at getting votes in the first place?

granted i'm being a bit petulant in this and it requires a number of qualifiers... but there's never been a 'true progressive' in the US that got to be in a position of national prominence that wasn't slandered and lied about by their political opposition (and a news media complicit with their political opposition) and abandoned by their political allies.
i wonder how well the voting public would take to a well articulated message of progressive ideology that wasn't marred or tempered by the need to placate corporate interests and needing to be constantly defensive about lies and misinformation being told about the message.
i don't know for certain it would do well, but i don't know for certain it wouldn't do well.

 

[J842P]

A true progressive wing will not get enough votes.

how could you know that, seeing as how this country has never really had a true progressive in a situation where they had a fair shake at getting votes in the first place?

granted i'm being a bit petulant in this and it requires a number of qualifiers... but there's never been a 'true progressive' in the US that got to be in a position of national prominence that wasn't slandered and lied about by their political opposition (and a news media complicit with their political opposition) and abandoned by their political allies.
i wonder how well the voting public would take to a well articulated message of progressive ideology that wasn't marred or tempered by the need to placate corporate interests and needing to be constantly defensive about lies and misinformation being told about the message.
i don't know for certain it would do well, but i don't know for certain it wouldn't do well.

I would consider FDR a true progressive.

The problem is that baby boomers think that this is still 1995. They, of course, all thought Trump had no chance. So frankly, I don't think their opinions about what is possible have much merit.

 

[J842P]

We were well-represented in this election. Our message becomes more popular with every election. We constitute more than 2/5 of House Democrats at present. Why don't you think that will continue?

So you have 20% of the vote. That wins you about zero seats.

Every new party starts with zero seats.

And of course, there are more than zero seats currently. And as you say, it is growing. The Tea Party Republicans also started with zero seats. It's a fundamentally silly argument. It's pure question-begging. Progressives can't win because Progressives can't win.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Every new party starts with zero seats.

And of course, there are more than zero seats currently. And as you say, it is growing. The Tea Party Republicans also started with zero seats. It's a fundamentally silly argument. It's pure question-begging. Progressives can't win because Progressives can't win.

You don't seem to remember, a bunch of progressives in the primaries couldn't even get out of the primary. So this whole "Progressives will win if we put them out there" isn't paying close attention to all the losses among progressives.

And as a reminder, Trump won Florida by convincing Cuban and Venezuelan Hispanics that Joe Biden was a socialist or that he'd be beholden to socialists. The right-wing propaganda machine did a marvelous job painting a freshman from the Bronx as the face of the Democrat Party.

And the GOP has proven, they'll stop at almost nothing to lie (using the right-wing media empire) about their opponents. They've done such a good job, millions of Americans think this election isn't decided yet!

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Meanwhile in Ohio District 13...

Tim Ryan is my representative. His district was fucked with in the 2010 Gerrymandering effort. His district had been ridiculous safe.

Had been. While he did win by about 10 pts this year, he had been winning by 20 to 30+. Tim Ryan serves Akron and the rustiest part of the Rust in the US, Youngstown/Warren. All of this talk about too centrist... too progressive... needs to stop... and we need to look at THIS district (and Ohio in general) to find out what is going on here. Tim Ryan went from huge gerrymandered victories (including in 2016!) to a much smaller 10 or so pt victory this year, the second in a a row where Ohio has gone red (redder than Texas).

 

[J842P]

Every new party starts with zero seats.

And of course, there are more than zero seats currently. And as you say, it is growing. The Tea Party Republicans also started with zero seats. It's a fundamentally silly argument. It's pure question-begging. Progressives can't win because Progressives can't win.

You don't seem to remember, a bunch of progressives in the primaries couldn't even get out of the primary. So this whole "Progressives will win if we put them out there" isn't paying close attention to all the losses among progressives.

And as a reminder, Trump won Florida by convincing Cuban and Venezuelan Hispanics that Joe Biden was a socialist or that he'd be beholden to socialists. The right-wing propaganda machine did a marvelous job painting a freshman from the Bronx as the face of the Democrat Party.

And the GOP has proven, they'll stop at almost nothing to lie (using the right-wing media empire) about their opponents. They've done such a good job, millions of Americans think this election isn't decided yet!

They didn't have to convince the Cubans of anything. The Cubans have always voted this way. I've always said they are a lost cause.

But you are just ignoring that progressives have won in ways that would have been deemed impossible only a decade ago. Of course they have also lost. I maintain that the woke left are the only thing holding it back. No one likes them.

But I am still optimistic about the long term.

The millennials are going to start to turn into a more active voting bloc as they age, people forget that the oldest ones are almost in their forties. I say give it another 4-8 years. And the zoomers will come after. And again, progressive policies are very popular, and their popularity is only increasing. Of course, for the time being, it will be slow, and the most important thing will be preventing the deplorables like Biden from indulging in their worst tendencies. And waiting a little bit for them to die off. But it will ultimately hinge on slow, sustained persuasion and messaging discipline, as well as fighting tooth and nail for local positions. The republicans demonstrated the way.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

You don't seem to remember, a bunch of progressives in the primaries couldn't even get out of the primary. So this whole "Progressives will win if we put them out there" isn't paying close attention to all the losses among progressives.

And as a reminder, Trump won Florida by convincing Cuban and Venezuelan Hispanics that Joe Biden was a socialist or that he'd be beholden to socialists. The right-wing propaganda machine did a marvelous job painting a freshman from the Bronx as the face of the Democrat Party.

And the GOP has proven, they'll stop at almost nothing to lie (using the right-wing media empire) about their opponents. They've done such a good job, millions of Americans think this election isn't decided yet!

They didn't have to convince the Cubans of anything. The Cubans have always voted this way. I've always said they are a lost cause.

Biden lost them more than Clinton. And I should have rephrased what I said in that the Republicans did a good job painting the caricature of a Freshman representative from the Bronx as the face of the Democrat Party.

But you are just ignoring that progressives have won in ways that would have been deemed impossible only a decade ago. Of course they have also lost. I maintain that the woke left are the only thing holding it back. No one likes them.

Yes, progs have won, I'm not saying Progs can't win I'm saying a progressive winning isn't a fait accompli simply if they are prog. There is way too much oversimplification regarding left-wing/moderate politics at the moment.

But I am still optimistic about the long term.

Trump got 47% of the vote after the last four years. There is virtually little to be optimistic about.

The millennials are going to start to turn into a more active voting bloc as they age, people forget that the oldest ones are almost in their forties. I say give it another 4-8 years. And the zoomers will come after. And again, progressive policies are very popular, and their popularity is only increasing. Of course, for the time being, it will be slow, and the most important thing will be preventing the deplorables like Biden from indulging in their worst tendencies. And waiting a little bit for them to die off. But it will ultimately hinge on slow, sustained persuasion and messaging discipline, as well as fighting tooth and nail for local positions. The republicans demonstrated the way.

Putting the eggs in the 'younger voters' will save us, is a ridiculous strategy. Politics appears to be transitioning back to a 1960's state of mind, with an incredibly effective propaganda machine behind the GOP.

 

[Derec]

And as a reminder, Trump won Florida by convincing Cuban and Venezuelan Hispanics that Joe Biden was a socialist or that he'd be beholden to socialists.

Not so much the former, but certainly the latter.

The right-wing propaganda machine did a marvelous job painting a freshman from the Bronx as the face of the Democrat Party.

It is not primarily the "right-wing propaganda machine" that did that. Plenty of Democrats have been gushing over AOC and those in her squad being the future of the Party.

 

[Derec]

The millennials are going to start to turn into a more active voting bloc as they age, people forget that the oldest ones are almost in their forties. I say give it another 4-8 years. And the zoomers will come after. And again, progressive policies are very popular, and their popularity is only increasing.

"Progressive" ideas like "free shit, even if I have to steal it"?

Anti-Capitalist Teens Are Sharing Shoplifting Tips on TikTok

Of course Vice being Vice, the author is very sympathetic toward these little kleptomaniacs. But at least even at that tender age they realize that socialism is, at its heart, about stealing from those who create.

These little shits need to be arrested an prosecuted and preferably ordered to pay restitution and plenty of community service hours.

Of course, for the time being, it will be slow, and the most important thing will be preventing the deplorables like Biden from indulging in their worst tendencies.

Biden is "deplorable" now? Why? Because he is not a socialist?

Socialism has been tried time and time again and been found wanting each time.
There is a Radio Yerevan joke that if socialism was introduced in the Sahara, sand would become scarce. Reality though is not too far off.
Venezuela’s fuel shortage set to get worse after refinery halted

 

[Derec]

But we do mean to take money from the police budget to fund solutions that better handle problems like drug addiction and domestic violence.

Taking money from police is the wrong approach. Many of the issues with policing have to do with insufficient training, which will become worse as cities like Portland reduce police budgets.
Also, domesticee violence is a violent crime. It is perfectly appropriate to send police to arrest the perp and not some social worker to talk to him or her.
For example, in the Walter Wallace case the family claimed that they didn't want police to come, that it was a mental health call, blah blah, but the 911 call tells a very different story.
His sister is on the call saying he is beating up on their parents and that he has a history of violence, including being out on bail for a violent crime.

But that's not the #BLM propaganda we've been fed, of course. His father even went as far as to falsely claim that Walter Wallace, who has a long violent crime rap sheet, would not hurt a fly. Shades of Michael "Gentle Giant" Brown.
Anyway, should police not have been sent given that 911 call?

We should stop funding the militarization of the police.

Police having crowd control/riot gear such as armored Bearcats is not "militarization". It's not like police have artillery, main battle tanks or aircraft careers.
And I am sure violent rioters, be they from left or the right, would love to defang police ability to control riots.

Trump and his followers call these things socialism.

As do many Dems.

We haven't even touched on the systemic racism that is the hallmark of Trumpism. Do we not try, once again, to eliminate this? Because it fuels white male grievance politics? Because it is at the core of the current Republican party and its current officeholders?

There is a lot of racism on the far left. Like the claim that white men are the root of all evil.

 

[Elixir]

There is a lot of racism on the far left.

Ya sure, ya betcha.



Damn lib'ruls, right?