#MeToo goes full prude. Never go full prude!

[fast]

One likely objection would be that grid girls do NOT dress as they want to - they dress as they are told to, and the dress codes dictated by their employer are both detailed and strict.

Lots of people have to dress according to the way their employers demand, and not according to how they want to or what's comfortable. Firemen, policemen, soldiers, waitresses, waiters, construction workers. I could go on all day. Grid girls know when they take the job that they're not going to be wearing comfy overalls or sweat pants. If you don't want to dress sexy in front of thousands of people, don't be a grid girl. Maybe be a mechanic instead.

I recall a time when an employer told an employee that she couldn't go (meaning, she could not leave for break), and the employee told the employer, "don't tell me I can't go. You can tell me I can't come back, but don't you tell me I can't go."

So, with the same fuel that ignited those transpiring words, walk away (or run if you please), but do so understanding well and comprehending fully that lots of people DO NOT have to dress according to the way their employers demand.

 

[Arctish]

Isn't the purpose of third-wave feminism to shame society into finding unattractive women appealing?

I'm glad you asked.

The answer is no.

 

[Derec]

Isn't the purpose of third-wave feminism to shame society into finding unattractive women appealing?

I'm glad you asked.

The answer is no.

4th wave feminism then if you prefer.

Examples of fourth-wave feminist campaigns include the Everyday Sexism Project, No More Page 3, Stop Bild Sexism, Mattress Performance, 10 Hours of Walking in NYC as a Woman, #YesAllWomen, Free the Nipple, One Billion Rising, the 2017 Women's March, the 2018 Women's March, and the #MeToo movement. In December 2017, Time magazine chose several prominent female activists involved in the #MeToo movement, dubbed "the silence breakers", as Person of the Year.[7][8]
Cochrane describes the fourth wave as focusing on sexual harassment (including street harassment), workplace discrimination, body shaming, sexist imagery in the media, online misogyny, assault on public transport, and intersectionality, relying on social media for communication and online petitioning for organizing.[1] [14][15] Events and organizations included the Everyday Sexism Project, UK Feminista, Reclaim the Night, One Billion Rising, and "a Lose the Lads' mags protest".[1]

Note the contradiction between freeing the nipple and demanding it be covered by sex-negative feminist groups like "No More Page 3" and "Lose the Lads' mags protest".
Also this hyper-pudish focus on supposed "sexist" imagery in the media fits with removing grid girls from Formula 1.

Although I have heard 4th wavers (intersectional, sex-negative. sourpuss feminists) referred to as 3rd wave in the media, so I do not think the wave system is entirely canonical or that even the feminists agree on the numbering.

 

[ruby sparks]

The question was why is there a different attitude amongst feminists to scanty dress amongst grid girls, than they have to scanty dress amongst slutwalkers. The answer is that grid girls do NOT dress as they want to - they dress as they are told to; While slutwalkers dress as they wnat to and refuse to be told how to dress by anyone else.

I see your point, but I'm not sure you've nailed it. It could be said that no one is forcing a grid girl to be a grid girl and that by accepting the job she is exercising choice as regards what she will wear. She might even like wearing it.

I do think there's a tricky mismatch between saying on the one hand that women should be allowed to wear what they want and advocating the demise of grid girls.

If there's anyone who agrees with both, obviously.

Feminism is like almost any other ism. It's complicated. Whilst there may be a common general goal, there's a range of opinions and disagreement as well as agreement about how best to achieve it.

 

[Derec]

Well done; You managed to completely miss the point from a standing start. Very impressive.

That's because your point is as messy as the Ferrari standing start at last year's Singapore GP. And thebeave, like Lewis, expertly missed it ...

The point of slutwalks is that women can wear whatever they want. That should include wearing matching outfits if they choose to sign up for a grid girl gig. It should be up to the woman, not up to moralizing 2nth-wave feminists or religious fundamentalists alike. It doesn't matter that the gig requirement states what outfit she has to wear. The choice is hers in the end, as it is for the slutwalk participants.

It is ironic that feminists say they want women to be free, and yet if a woman makes a choice (choosing to be a grid girl, a sex worker, or even a stay at home mom) they do not agree with, certain feminists are the loudest in their objections.

I am pretty certain that the organisers of slutwalks do NOT provide a dress code for attendees. As we are discussing the different attitudes of feminists to slutwalks vs grid girls, it is completely irrelevant to consider firemen, policemen, soldiers, waitresses, waiters, construction workers, or any other group that you might want to go on about.

The point is that in each case it is the person's choice. if you don't like wearing a uniform to work don't chose the line of work like police or firefighting. If you don't want to wear costumes identical to a couple of dozen other women that often highlight some aspect of the local country or region do not sign up to be a grid girl.

The question was why is there a different attitude amongst feminists to scanty dress amongst grid girls, than they have to scanty dress amongst slutwalkers. The answer is that grid girls do NOT dress as they want to - they dress as they are told to; While slutwalkers dress as they wnat to and refuse to be told how to dress by anyone else.

But grid-girls choose these gigs freely.

If you really don't see how feminists might consider that a hugely important distinction, then I feel very sorry for you.

It's an illogical attitude. Of course when you work as a promotional model there will be dress codes. For example grid girls all dress alike, in an outfit predetermined by race organizers.
But that is true of those working for teams too. They all dress in their team laundry. What's the difference at the end of the day, as it applies to people's freedom of choice?

Another grid girl, just because.

 

[Derec]

and the dress codes dictated by their employer are both detailed and strict.

As opposed to drivers, who wear what they want?

- - - Updated - - -

That and the fact Derec does quite of bit of passive-aggressive insulting

Only because the likes of of you have been doing it to me for years.

 

[Derec]

Poor Derec. So desperate to find something to be angry about regarding women.

Desperate to find something? No. I have been watching F1 since the late 80s. You know, Mansell, Senna.
And I hate it to see silly political correctness entering F1 as well. As if halos weren't stupid enough, now we will have "grid kids" instead of "grid girls" ....

Formula 1: 'Grid kids' to replace 'grid girls' from start of the season

 

[Derec]

I remember a trade show that banned booth babes something like 20 years ago. It's nothing new. And I actually felt it was overall a benefit to the show. (A few places had booth babes that simply put on presentations and that worked fine. My only objection there was so many clad in material I found unattractive. However, most of them were there to interact with the attendees. The companies would hire the women to do it--which meant that they had only very basic product knowledge. Booths without the babes would have actual employees there--much more knowledgeable.)

It may have benefited your trade show if hiring the promotion models meant cutting back on actual employees present. But that is not the case at F1. Having grid girls hold start numbers and take photos with people does not mean that Toto Wolff and Maurizio Arrivabene are any less available to answer questions from the media or run their teams.
I certainly do not see how the F1 will be improved by this move. Scouring the internet, the most positive opinions on the move are written by feminist women who probably do not watch F1 and are unlikely to start just because grid girls have been banished as not being feminist enough for the #MeToo, 4th wave dystopia we are living in.

And more grid girls:

 

[ruby sparks]

The girl grid kids should wear white just like other domestic appliances.

 

[Derec]

Lovely tits, and I think I might be able to imagine some sexy (probably shaved) camel toes lurking down there (thinner, tighter panties would have been helpful in this regard). Nice belly buttons too. Skinny waist is good, and de rigeur. Ditto for tanned, and shaved legs. Also good that they're smiling and have gone to a lot of (stereotypically attractive) hair and make up trouble. Cool that they're not as tall as him, even though I'm also guessing high heels (them, not him) for full effect. I like the way the the cleavage bows suggest that all it would take is one tug for the goodies to come tumbling out, nipples already erect no doubt. Great teeth too. I'm guessing American.

Well it is the American Grand Prix. But there are 20 odd races in different countries and each have (or had, sadly) their own grid girls.

The ratio works well too (one man gets 4 women's attention).

Him being an actor helps.

I note that everyone in the pic is caucasian. Just sayin'.

Just turned out that way in the pic. But no worries:

Satisfied?

I would also have no objection to getting sprayed with symbolic fizzy juices on the winner's podium if I can claim laundry costs for the speedos.

 

[Derec]

There is as much evidence for any other possible reason as there for your conclusion.

No there isn't. Even the supporters of the grid girl ban tend to acknowledge that it was due to feminism.

#MeToo is a movement against unwanted sexual advances. There is no logical connection between that and scantily clad women.

You have not talked to many feminists?

 

[Malintent]

One likely objection would be that grid girls do NOT dress as they want to - they dress as they are told to, and the dress codes dictated by their employer are both detailed and strict.

Lots of people have to dress according to the way their employers demand, and not according to how they want to or what's comfortable. Firemen, policemen, soldiers, waitresses, waiters, construction workers. I could go on all day. Grid girls know when they take the job that they're not going to be wearing comfy overalls or sweat pants. If you don't want to dress sexy in front of thousands of people, don't be a grid girl. Maybe be a mechanic instead.

I recall a time when an employer told an employee that she couldn't go (meaning, she could not leave for break), and the employee told the employer, "don't tell me I can't go. You can tell me I can't come back, but don't you tell me I can't go."

So, with the same fuel that ignited those transpiring words, walk away (or run if you please), but do so understanding well and comprehending fully that lots of people DO NOT have to dress according to the way their employers demand.

This one time, back in early 2000's, at my previous job, I walked into a break room (there were like 20 of them in the 6 story building that was my office), and must have walked up right in the middle of a disagreement between three people. Two of them must have been pointing out that the third (male) was inappropriately dressed for work.
I didn't know the guy very well, just a casual work acquaintance. He was wearing jean cut-off shorts and an orange sleeveless FISHNET tank-top. It all hit me at the same time... what he was wearing and the question from one of the other two, "do you think that is appropriate for work"?, pointing at the guy. To which I responded by pointing at his chest and asking him, "Is that your nipple"? He looked down and then looked at me with a face that sort of said, "ya so"... to which I said, "then yes".

 

[fast]

I recall a time when an employer told an employee that she couldn't go (meaning, she could not leave for break), and the employee told the employer, "don't tell me I can't go. You can tell me I can't come back, but don't you tell me I can't go."

So, with the same fuel that ignited those transpiring words, walk away (or run if you please), but do so understanding well and comprehending fully that lots of people DO NOT have to dress according to the way their employers demand.

This one time, back in early 2000's, at my previous job, I walked into a break room (there were like 20 of them in the 6 story building that was my office), and must have walked up right in the middle of a disagreement between three people. Two of them must have been pointing out that the third (male) was inappropriately dressed for work.
I didn't know the guy very well, just a casual work acquaintance. He was wearing jean cut-off shorts and an orange sleeveless FISHNET tank-top. It all hit me at the same time... what he was wearing and the question from one of the other two, "do you think that is appropriate for work"?, pointing at the guy. To which I responded by pointing at his chest and asking him, "Is that your nipple"? He looked down and then looked at me with a face that sort of said, "ya so"... to which I said, "then yes".

I think maybe I was too subtle.

The statement, "you have to wear a tutu," is different from the statement, "you have to wear a tutu if you want to work here." They are different statements with potential different truth values. The latter may be true, but the former isn't.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I remember a trade show that banned booth babes something like 20 years ago. It's nothing new. And I actually felt it was overall a benefit to the show. (A few places had booth babes that simply put on presentations and that worked fine. My only objection there was so many clad in material I found unattractive. However, most of them were there to interact with the attendees. The companies would hire the women to do it--which meant that they had only very basic product knowledge. Booths without the babes would have actual employees there--much more knowledgeable.)

It may have benefited your trade show if hiring the promotion models meant cutting back on actual employees present. But that is not the case at F1. Having grid girls hold start numbers and take photos with people does not mean that Toto Wolff and Maurizio Arrivabene are any less available to answer questions from the media or run their teams.
I certainly do not see how the F1 will be improved by this move. Scouring the internet, the most positive opinions on the move are written by feminist women who probably do not watch F1 and are unlikely to start just because grid girls have been banished as not being feminist enough for the #MeToo, 4th wave dystopia we are living in.

Yeah, note that I said it worked ok when they simply put on presentations. The F1 girls are simply putting on minimal presentations.

 

[Arctish]

Isn't the purpose of third-wave feminism to shame society into finding unattractive women appealing?

I'm glad you asked.

The answer is no.

4th wave feminism then if you prefer.

I think a more complete quote provides a better understanding:

Fourth-wave feminism refers to a resurgence of interest in feminism that began around 2012 and is associated with the use of social media.[1] According to feminist scholar Prudence Chamberlain, the focus of the fourth wave is justice for women and opposition to sexual harassment and violence against women. Its essence, she writes, is "incredulity that certain attitudes can still exist". [2]

Fourth-wave feminism is "defined by technology", according to Kira Cochrane, and is characterized particularly by the use of Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, YouTube, Tumblr, and blogs such as Feministing to challenge misogyny and further gender equality.[1][3][4][5]

Issues that fourth-wave feminists focus on include street and workplace harassment, campus sexual assault and rape culture. Scandals involving the harassment and abuse of women and girls have galvanized the movement. These have included the 2012 Delhi gang rape, 2012 Jimmy Savile allegations, the Bill Cosby allegations, 2014 Isla Vista killings, 2016 trial of Jian Ghomeshi, 2017 Harvey Weinstein allegations and subsequent Weinstein effect, and the 2017 Westminster sexual scandals.[6]

Examples of fourth-wave feminist campaigns include the Everyday Sexism Project, No More Page 3, Stop Bild Sexism, Mattress Performance, 10 Hours of Walking in NYC as a Woman, #YesAllWomen, Free the Nipple, One Billion Rising, the 2017 Women's March, the 2018 Women's March, and the #MeToo movement. In December 2017, Time magazine chose several prominent female activists involved in the #MeToo movement, dubbed "the silence breakers", as Person of the Year

There's nothing in there about shaming society into finding unattractive women appealing.

Note the contradiction between freeing the nipple and demanding it be covered by sex-negative feminist groups like "No More Page 3" and "Lose the Lads' mags protest".
Also this hyper-pudish focus on supposed "sexist" imagery in the media fits with removing grid girls from Formula 1.

There's no contradiction between wanting the freedom to breastfeed a baby in public and being opposed to sexism in the media, the workplace, and in our everyday interactions IRL and on the internet.

 

[ruby sparks]

As with most things, there's a pragmatic solution that arguably represents a good, win-win compromise all round.

If you're watching F1 on tv or at the event itself, and you wish there were grid girls, simply use some sort of hand-held device to log on to a suitable sexy pics website. That way, you can still get to watch the race and hot women at the same time. Problem solved, surely.

 

[Derec]

As with most things, there's a pragmatic solution that arguably represents a good, win-win compromise all round.

If you're watching F1 on tv or at the event itself, and you wish there were grid girls, simply use some sort of hand-held device to log on to a suitable sexy pics website. That way, you can still get to watch the race and hot women at the same time. Problem solved, surely.

You have the right idea, but your pragmatic solution does not require to change the grid girl system, so why not keep it?
I suggest instead, whoever prefers little children to grown women can load pictures of children and hold their tablet to cover up the offending grid girls holding start numbers.
Or alternatively, they can download photos of 2015 Monaco Grand Prix grid boys if they are so inclined ...

 

[Derec]

There's nothing in there about shaming society into finding unattractive women appealing.

Nothing in that particular quote you mean.

There's no contradiction between wanting the freedom to breastfeed a baby in public and being opposed to sexism in the media, the workplace, and in our everyday interactions IRL and on the internet.

It is freedom for her to breastfeed in public, but at the same time deny other people their freedom for entertainment they want or employment they willingly enter. Freedom for me but not for thee.
Not a logical contradiction, but certainly a buttload of hypocrisy.

 

[laughing dog]

There is as much evidence for any other possible reason as there for your conclusion.

No there isn't.

Nope. You pulled it out of biased mind.

Even the supporters of the grid girl ban tend to acknowledge that it was due to feminism.

Prove it.

You have not talked to many feminists?

My guess is I know more feminists and listen to more feminists on a daily basis than you have in your entire life. There is no logical connection between unwanted sexual advances and scantily clad women.

 

[Arctish]

There's nothing in there about shaming society into finding unattractive women appealing.

Nothing in that particular quote you mean.

Is there a different quote that has it? Please post it.

There's no contradiction between wanting the freedom to breastfeed a baby in public and being opposed to sexism in the media, the workplace, and in our everyday interactions IRL and on the internet.

It is freedom for her to breastfeed in public, but at the same time deny other people their freedom for entertainment they want or employment they willingly enter. Freedom for me but not for thee.
Not a logical contradiction, but certainly a buttload of hypocrisy.

It's true that banning a type of entertainment infringes on the freedom of people to enjoy it. That doesn't mean banning it is wrong. There are all sorts of entertainments that have been banned due to the general consensus that they are detrimental to our society; dogfighting and hazing come to mind. Anyway, the elimination of the job of grid girl at F1 races isn't a ban on looking at pretty girls in skimpy outfits, so let's not get all Chicken Little about it. And it certainly doesn't mean that from now on you have to find unattractive women appealing.