#metoo hysteria claims yet another victim!

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

Derec, you've complained a gazillion times because you say women judge you on your looks. You talked about how you're fat and look like the Scottish caricature from that Austin Powers movie-the guy who wanted to eat Mini-me. So you want a woman you can judge on her looks that doesn't judge you on your looks. Why don't you want her to have freedom to break out of those hypocritical chains? I mean, you want to be able to objectify all these women but when they don't want to be objectified (just like you don't), you get upset about it and blame other women ala #metoo. I think you need to have a consistent argument here.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

What I'm most curious about is how many of the people who'll whine about what a travesty this is have even watched a beauty pageant in the past ten years? They seem like an odd artifact of a bygone era like mule trains or respectfulness and courtesy in public dialogue. Seeing women parade around in bikinis just doesn't have the same titillation factor that it used to and the time on stage could be better used watching them solve complex math problems while juggling chainsaws or whatever else it is that they do.

 

[southernhybrid]

Being a woman myself, I would imagine that most of the young women who enter the Miss, should be Ms. America competition are probably pretty pleased that they no longer have to stand there almost naked so men like Derec, are able to gawk at their bodies and objectify them. As Derec has told us, he likes strip shows and hookers, so why the fuck does he give a fuck about this? I guess one more excuse to complain about those scary feminists, who probably had nothing to do with this decision.

 

[Patooka]

Derec, why can't we just use liberal left 'look-away' logic?

If you don't like abortions err...I mean same sex marriage err...I mean beauty pageants...
Simple- don't have one.

That's right. That's exactly right. I agree with you 100%. Now sit down, take a deep breath, and try to keep up.

No one is banning beauty pageants. The premise of this thread is the assertion that the #meetoo movement is directly or indirectly accountable for the fact that the organizers of the Miss America pageant made a decision on how their contestants will be judged. There was no law change, no terrorist demands, not even a petition from Women's Foundation for the Foundation of Women or some shit. It was done on their own bat on their own free will. Derec is upset that a movement that exposed people abusing their positions of authority and power to commit rape exists and has theoretically removed some soft core pornography. Substitutes of such, I might add, are very readily available elsewhere.

So yeah, if you don't like the direction the Miss America pageant is going, stop watching it. Glad you brought that argument up. Obliged.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

What I find funny is that the Miss America competition wouldn't have a bra and panties segment... but would have a swimming suit segment, with the two not really being any different. The right-wing would have been up in arms about the nudity of women in their underwear on TV. But if you call it a swimsuit... problem goes away.

And as for myself, I didn't even know this was still shown on television. I haven't watched something like that since I was a teen, a young teen.

 

[starwater]

Derec, you've complained a gazillion times because you say women judge you on your looks. You talked about how you're fat and look like the Scottish caricature from that Austin Powers movie-the guy who wanted to eat Mini-me. So you want a woman you can judge on her looks that doesn't judge you on your looks. Why don't you want her to have freedom to break out of those hypocritical chains? I mean, you want to be able to objectify all these women but when they don't want to be objectified (just like you don't), you get upset about it and blame other women ala #metoo. I think you need to have a consistent argument here.

^ This. Objectification of women is not an acceptable norm.

And the #metoo movement is not hysteria, its about finally calling out the issues women face every day.

 

[dismal]

Derec, you've complained a gazillion times because you say women judge you on your looks. You talked about how you're fat and look like the Scottish caricature from that Austin Powers movie-the guy who wanted to eat Mini-me. So you want a woman you can judge on her looks that doesn't judge you on your looks. Why don't you want her to have freedom to break out of those hypocritical chains? I mean, you want to be able to objectify all these women but when they don't want to be objectified (just like you don't), you get upset about it and blame other women ala #metoo. I think you need to have a consistent argument here.

^ This. Objectification of women is not an acceptable norm.

And the #metoo movement is not hysteria, its about finally calling out the issues women face every day.

Why is a woman in a bikini "objectified"?

Do other objects wear bikinis?

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

Yes, sometimes inflatable women.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

But nobody put a gun to their head and forced them into a bikini and out onto the stage. They're adults who've made a choice to use their looks to help them get fame and money. Berating the objectification of it all makes them out to be some kind of victim when recent scientific studies have shown indications that women actually have agency of their own just like men do.

 

[Derec]

Politically correct, SOGI sensitive, beauty pageant right here.

I was thinking that this captures the ethos of the modern American "liberalism" more ...

Not a bikini in sight!

 

[dismal]

But nobody put a gun to their head and forced them into a bikini and out onto the stage. They're adults who've made a choice to use their looks to help them get fame and money. Berating the objectification of it all makes them out to be some kind of victim when recent scientific studies have shown indications that women actually have agency of their own just like men do.

Yes, this is what I'm trying to get at. If I start with the premise that adult women are humans with moral agency and accept that some of them want to a) be considered attractive and b) want to put on bikinis toward this end, it seems I ought to be tolerant of women in bikinis. It's only the intolerant who would want remove a woman's choice, or subjugate it to their own ends that would have a problem with a woman choosing to put on a bikini.

 

[ZiprHead]

Politically correct, SOGI sensitive, beauty pageant right here.

I was thinking that this captures the ethos of the modern American "liberalism" more ...

Not a bikini in sight!

That your world view is so completely fucked up explains a lot.

- - - Updated - - -

But nobody put a gun to their head and forced them into a bikini and out onto the stage. They're adults who've made a choice to use their looks to help them get fame and money. Berating the objectification of it all makes them out to be some kind of victim when recent scientific studies have shown indications that women actually have agency of their own just like men do.

Yes, this is what I'm trying to get at. If I start with the premise that adult women are humans with moral agency and accept that some of them want to a) be considered attractive and b) want to put on bikinis toward this end, it seems I ought to be tolerant of women in bikinis. It's only the intolerant who would want remove a woman's choice, or subjugate it to their own ends that would have a problem with a woman choosing to put on a bikini.

Funny, I don't see anyone here saying a woman should not wear a bikini if they want to.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

Funny, I don't see anyone here saying a woman should not wear a bikini if they want to.

So, when somebody says "Objectification of women is not an acceptable norm" in response to women wearing bikinis, you saw that comment some other way? I saw it as saying that having women parade around on stage in bikinis is not something that's acceptable in normal society and therefore it is something that should not be done.

 

[Keith&Co.]

Funny, I don't see anyone here saying a woman should not wear a bikini if they want to.

It's Obviously, it's a slippery slope. By not requiring women to wear bikini's for this specific pageant, they're taking steps toward eventually forcing women to stop stripping or having sex with strangers for money.
It's the same thing, really, just a matter of progressing steps and detail work.

 

[dismal]

Funny, I don't see anyone here saying a woman should not wear a bikini if they want to.

It's Obviously, it's a slippery slope. By not requiring women to wear bikini's for this specific pageant, they're taking steps toward eventually forcing women to stop stripping or having sex with strangers for money.
It's the same thing, really, just a matter of progressing steps and detail work.

Speaking of "slippery slopes" if I recall correctly this pageant has a long history of favoring attractive women. Should that also stop?

Does it not similarly "objectify" women to have them parade in an evening gown and rate them for how good they look in it?

What are your suggestions for non-objectifying criteria to name a Miss America? If we do it based on how well they play the piano or twirl a baton are we also not objectifying women? Or did you somehow determine that a woman in a bikini is "an object" but a woman at a piano is not? And, if so, how exactly did you determine this?

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Without this, how will we be able to inspire future potential Miss Teen USA's?

 

[Keith&Co.]

Does it not similarly "objectify" women to have them parade in an evening gown and rate them for how good they look in it?

What, exactly, do you think 'objectify' means?

 

[laughing dog]

Funny, I don't see anyone here saying a woman should not wear a bikini if they want to.

So, when somebody says "Objectification of women is not an acceptable norm" in response to women wearing bikinis, you saw that comment some other way? I saw it as saying that having women parade around on stage in bikinis is not something that's acceptable in normal society and therefore it is something that should not be done.

What both you and dismal are missing is that the pageant REQUIRED to parade around on stage in bikinis - it was part of the requirement to compete in the pageant. In order to compete in the pageant, a woman HAD to agree to parade around in bikinis. presumably because that was considered an integral component of being Miss America. Now, the pageant has made a change so that competitors are not going to be required to parade in bikinis. It is the requirement (not the actual wearing) of the bikini that is the objectification of women.

 

[dismal]

Does it not similarly "objectify" women to have them parade in an evening gown and rate them for how good they look in it?

What, exactly, do you think 'objectify' means?

Dats what I' been asking.

How in your mind does a woman being in a bikini "objectify" her? In my mind she remains a woman.

 

[Keith&Co.]

Does it not similarly "objectify" women to have them parade in an evening gown and rate them for how good they look in it?

What, exactly, do you think 'objectify' means?

Dats what I' been asking.

How does a woman being in a bikini "objectify" her?

Objectification of a person is when you view them as having nothing to contribute except sexual pleasure for another. Thus, viewing her as a sex object, like a blow-up doll or a dildo.

So, no, a gown that does not force attention directly to their primary and secondary sexual assets and erogenous zones is not objectifying her, nor is demonstration of a non-sexual skill.

Unless you have a baton-twirling fetish or something, then you might be able to produce hard-core porn that no one else even recognizes as sexual in nature.