Michael Brown Shooting and Aftermath

[Nice Squirrel]

http://www.cnn.com/2014/08/11/us/missouri-teen-shooting/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

Ferguson, Missouri (CNN) -- The morning after a peaceful candlelight vigil for a teenager fatally shot by police disintegrated into violence and looting, the mayor of Ferguson, Missouri, called for calm. "Obviously, the events of last night are not indicative of who we are," James Knowles said on CNN on Monday morning, adding that the chaos that erupted Sunday night in the St. Louis suburb was "not constructive" and was only "bringing down the community."A short time later, a crowd gathered in front of the Ferguson Police Department to protest the killing of 18-year-old Michael Brown by a city police officer Saturday.Led by a man carrying a bullhorn, the crowd shouted, "No more, no more!" Dozens of people walked through the streets of Ferguson shouting, "No justice, no peace!"

Monday's gathering was peaceful, but Sunday evening in Ferguson was a far different scene. What began as a vigil for Brown ended with 32 people arrested and shots fired at police, a St. Louis County Police spokesman said Monday.

Witnesses to Brown's shooting said he had been unarmed and had his hands in the air.

Authorities told a different story. The police officer tried to get out of his vehicle just before the shooting, but Brown pushed him back into the car, said St. Louis County Police Chief Jon Belmar.Brown "physically assaulted" the officer, Belmar said, and the teen tried to get the officer's weapon. Brown was shot about 35 feet from the vehicle, the chief said, declining to provide more details. "The genesis of this was a physical confrontation," he said, adding that his department has been called in to conduct an independent investigation.

Ferguson Police said its cars are not equipped with dashboard cameras.

Discuss.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Victims of Police shootings are always right side: Kill all the cops!

Constructive side: It sounds like the pieces of the story don't actually make sense. An investigation is necessary, but we probably will never know the truth.

Police were probably right because Police used violence: Was the victim wearing underwear? Did he get shot and only afterwards did he regret being shot, so he made this whole story about being murdered by the cops?

Police can do no wrong side: He was black, he knew the dangers of being black. Even if he didn't actually do any of the things he is accused of, he still could have presented himself as a threat, which is why he had to be shot! The violence after the vigil is just proof of it.

There, we can close the thread and save everyone the effort.

 

[HelixSpiral]

^ Sigh. You're probably right.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

Even if the police's story is completely true, I don't see how this is anything other than murder. If he tried to get a weapon and then failed, he wasn't a threat to anybody when he was thirty feet away from them and unarmed.

 

[Derec]

<snip>

The police officer tried to get out of his vehicle just before the shooting, but Brown pushed him back into the car, said St. Louis County Police Chief Jon Belmar.Brown "physically assaulted" the officer, Belmar said, and the teen tried to get the officer's weapon. [...]
The slain teenager and a friend were "accused of stealing gum from the store or some sort of cigarettes," the alderman said.

But I'm sure pretty soon the family will come out with the hagiographies of <snip> Michael.

 

[Nice Squirrel]

<snip>

 

[NobleSavage]

Shop owners protecting their store:

 

[repoman]

Did he insult one of the police officers, or get the better of him by pushing him back into his car and then call him a bitch or a punk? Did that make the officer mad enough to shoot him - when the guy was a safe distance and unarmed? I could see that happening.

But police are supposed to be above petty heat of the moment revenge like that.

 

[Mumbles]

Did he insult one of the police officers, or get the better of him by pushing him back into his car and then call him a bitch or a punk? Did that make the officer mad enough to shoot him - when the guy was a safe distance and unarmed? I could see that happening.

But police are supposed to be above petty heat of the moment revenge like that.

According the guy who he was walking down the street with, Brown didn't get off the street, so the cop choked him, tried to pull him in the car, and then began firing. Naturally, the cop is telling a different story. And all because they were close when the cop opened his car door, and it hit the two and bounced back to the cop.

But apparently there was a picture of Brown throwing a peace sign, so he's a killer killer thug killer thug killer. You know how that goes.

Obviously, looting and burning stores is wrong. Brown's family and activists like Al Sharpton have said so, in no uncertain terms. But, there's also Spike Lee's point from when Do the Right Thing came out, about how many people who saw the movie were more upset by Mookie smashing Sal's window, than by the cops choking Radio Raheem to death.

 

[Underseer]

Did he insult one of the police officers, or get the better of him by pushing him back into his car and then call him a bitch or a punk? Did that make the officer mad enough to shoot him - when the guy was a safe distance and unarmed? I could see that happening.

But police are supposed to be above petty heat of the moment revenge like that.

According the guy who he was walking down the street with, Brown didn't get off the street, so the cop choked him, tried to pull him in the car, and then began firing. Naturally, the cop is telling a different story. And all because they were close when the cop opened his car door, and it hit the two and bounced back to the cop.

But apparently there was a picture of Brown throwing a peace sign, so he's a killer killer thug killer thug killer. You know how that goes.

Obviously, looting and burning stores is wrong. Brown's family and activists like Al Sharpton have said so, in no uncertain terms. But, there's also Spike Lee's point from when Do the Right Thing came out, about how many people who saw the movie were more upset by Mookie smashing Sal's window, than by the cops choking Radio Raheem to death.

Why are you surprised by that? It's not bad when you do things to black people. You can even kill them if you like. However, if a black person does anything, it is automatically bad. If you have a problem with that, then you're a politically correct person who is persecuting me just because I'm white. Why do you hate white people? And why do you hate our freedom? [/conservolibertarian]

 

[RavenSky]

It is interesting to me that - so far at least - we don't have much defense of the police officer in this case. Perhaps, finally, we have a case that is so indisputable and so egregious that none of the usual members are going to try to blame the victim?

No matter what else may or may not have happened, Michael Brown was not only unarmed, not only 30 feet away from the police office when he was murdered, he was putting his arms up and getting down on the ground when he was shot in the face and torso approximately 8 times (after being previously shot twice). All this for the high crime of walking in the street.

 

[Derec]

Obviously, looting and burning stores is wrong. Brown's family and activists like Al Sharpton have said so, in no uncertain terms. But, there's also Spike Lee's point from when Do the Right Thing came out, about how many people who saw the movie were more upset by Mookie smashing Sal's window, than by the cops choking Radio Raheem to death.

Are we supposed to know who "Mookie" and the others are?
In any case, I think the reverse is true. The rioters are by and large given a pass. During the LA Riots, even the thugs who beat a white man half to death were given a slap on the wrist. Even the ringleader only served four years!

 

[Derec]

Why are you surprised by that? It's not bad when you do things to black people. You can even kill them if you like. However, if a black person does anything, it is automatically bad. If you have a problem with that, then you're a politically correct person who is persecuting me just because I'm white. Why do you hate white people? And why do you hate our freedom? [/conservolibertarian]

Nonsense. It's exactly the opposite. Black on black crime is the most common kind yet if you go by the media accounts you'd think a black person is most at risk from whites because those are the cases that receive national coverage, lead to riots and Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson show up to shake down big bucks. Black on black shootings? Meh. Black on white shootings? Who cares, and besides we do not want to be perceived as racists. But any time there is a white person who shoots a black person there is an immediate feeding frenzy and assumptions are made that the reason for the shooting was racial.

 

[Derec]

It is interesting to me that - so far at least - we don't have much defense of the police officer in this case. Perhaps, finally, we have a case that is so indisputable and so egregious that none of the usual members are going to try to blame the victim?

Maybe because we are awaiting the result of the investigation rather than jumping to conclusions like you seem to be doing.

As far as "blaming the victim", hopefully we get to examine Michael Brown's history, something we were denied with Renisha McBride for example (which I think influenced the verdict).

No matter what else may or may not have happened, Michael Brown was not only unarmed, not only 30 feet away from the police office when he was murdered, he was putting his arms up and getting down on the ground when he was shot in the face and torso approximately 8 times (after being previously shot twice).

You are treating these claims as undisputed facts but they all come from statements by Brown's buddy who is obviously not a disinterested witness.

All this for the high crime of walking in the street.

According to the police Brown attacked the police officer. This sentence of yours is as much an intentional misrepresentation of the case as was saying that Trayvon was killed over Skittles, that Renisha was merely knocking on the door to seek help after an accident or that Crawford was shot holding a toy gun.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Why are you surprised by that? It's not bad when you do things to black people. You can even kill them if you like. However, if a black person does anything, it is automatically bad. If you have a problem with that, then you're a politically correct person who is persecuting me just because I'm white. Why do you hate white people? And why do you hate our freedom? [/conservolibertarian]

Nonsense. It's exactly the opposite. Black on black crime is the most common kind yet if you go by the media accounts you'd think a black person is most at risk from whites because those are the cases that receive national coverage, lead to riots and Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson show up to shake down big bucks. Black on black shootings? Meh. Black on white shootings? Who cares, and besides we do not want to be perceived as racists. But any time there is a white person who shoots a black person there is an immediate feeding frenzy and assumptions are made that the reason for the shooting was racial.

I had a chuckle on the drive to work today. On NPR they were saying the problem with federal charges is that you have to demonstrate race was a factor in the killing in order to convict. Merely a police coverup to cover their own butts for baseless violence against a civilian isn't enough.

 

[Derec]

I had a chuckle on the drive to work today. On NPR they were saying the problem with federal charges is that you have to demonstrate race was a factor in the killing in order to convict. Merely a police coverup to cover their own butts for baseless violence against a civilian isn't enough.

That's because the federal crime is specifically civil rights violations (but it is very inconsistently applied - blacks who attack whites for clearly racial reasons like the LA Four or Jenna Six are generally not being prosecuted on civil rights grounds) while regular assault or murder charges are the bailiwick of the states unless there is a federal connection (like Tim McVeigh bombing a federal building.)

 

[Tom Sawyer]

Nonsense. It's exactly the opposite. Black on black crime is the most common kind yet if you go by the media accounts you'd think a black person is most at risk from whites because those are the cases that receive national coverage, lead to riots and Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson show up to shake down big bucks. Black on black shootings? Meh. Black on white shootings? Who cares, and besides we do not want to be perceived as racists. But any time there is a white person who shoots a black person there is an immediate feeding frenzy and assumptions are made that the reason for the shooting was racial.

I had a chuckle on the drive to work today. On NPR they were saying the problem with federal charges is that you have to demonstrate race was a factor in the killing in order to convict. Merely a police coverup to cover their own butts for baseless violence against a civilian isn't enough.

I thought that obstruction of justice was one of the things that put it under the FBI's purview.

 

[Derec]

I thought that obstruction of justice was one of the things that put it under the FBI's purview.

Only when obstructing a federal investigation I think.

 

[Nice Squirrel]

Black on black crime is the most common kind yet if you go by the media accounts

Citation please.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

I thought that obstruction of justice was one of the things that put it under the FBI's purview.

Only when obstructing a federal investigation I think.

Interesting. So, the FBI starts investigating it and then when they lie to the FBI investigators, it becomes a matter for the FBI to investigate. I guess Quantico teaches a course about Machiavelli.