Michael Brown Shooting and Aftermath

[Toni]

But since we know that black people are magic and can commit suicide with their hands handcuffed behind their backs by shooting themselves in the face with a gun they did not have and leaving no powder burns, then it is entirely possible that the officer was legitimately afraid for his life no matter how far away Brown was when Wilson shot him.

In cases like this you can basically assume there will be some witnesses who say he wasn't a threat no matter what he was actually doing.

And likewise we can count on the police ruling any officer involved shooting as justified. No matter the circumstances.

 

[Toni]

I guess we can't but agree to disagree. A person who lays a hand on an authority figure (shopkeeper) to get him out of his way, would be more likely in my mind to also lay a hand on a police officer attempting to do the same thing.

And we don't actually know if the gun entered the picture before or after the scuffle started.

That is the allegation.

You can find some statements from the store personnel from the police report (though hard to read, as names have been redacted). But consider this: if the store employees did not in fact consider it a crime, why would it end up as being reported by the police? Are you suggesting that the police are just making up crimes that nobody reports, or are reporting robberies even if the store that is supposedly robbed says it isn't because someone called 9/11?

What I'd be more interested in is why the case is "Exceptionally solved" and the accomplice isn't being charged.

The accomplice is not seen in the video taking anything, or in any way assisting with the robbery. In fact he returns the box that Brown handed over to him. As far as I can tell he cooperated with the police and it doesn't really strike me as odd that the case was dropped after the shooting, unless of course you think it is odd that a black man is not charged with a crime he didn't commit.

So the other guy wasn't a partner in crime, as was alluded to by others here?

I can't speak on behalf of anyone else. Some may have alluded that he was an unreliable witness in the shooting case because he was Michael Brown's buddy, but there is no evidence that he was an accessory to the robbery in any capacity except not stopping it.

Johnson isn't the only witness to contradict police versions of the shooting. At least two others have stated publicly that they witnessed the shooting and stated that Brown was far away and had his hands in the air. They were not acquainted with any of the parties involved.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

What I'd be more interested in is why the case is "Exceptionally solved" and the accomplice isn't being charged.

They don't consider the other guy an accomplice, just someone who was present.

And "exceptionally solved" means they know who did it but there will be no arrest/prosecution. Usually it means a dead suspect but it also covers other cases where prosecution would be a waste. (Say, the guy is already on death row for other crimes--you ID him as the cigar-robber. Why bother?)

 

[arkirk]

Can it be that us bleeding heart liberals or "conservoprogressives" are just a bunch of self-hating white guys who always believe the white guy should let a n****r talk back? We are even sillier if we allow a black man the same kind of reactions a white man would have. It just cannot be tolerated.

 

[Derec]

A new development is that some news organizations are seeking to have any juvenile criminal record of Michael Brown unsealed. If he has a juvenile record that would further undermine the narrative of the "gentle giant" who would never have attacked a police officer and tried to get his gun.
News organizations sue for access to possible Michael Brown juvenile records

Juvenile records are confidential in Missouri, so it's not definitively known if Brown was arrested before he legally became an adult. Police have said Brown had no adult criminal record. The family's attorney, Benjamin Crump, has refused to discuss whether Brown had a juvenile record.

I hope we do get the access to his records, and I think it is likely he had a juvenile record. Otherwise, why would Crump "refuse to discuss" it rather than categorically saying that he had no record?

 

[AthenaAwakened]

A new development is that some news organizations are seeking to have any juvenile criminal record of Michael Brown unsealed. If he has a juvenile record that would further undermine the narrative of the "gentle giant" who would never have attacked a police officer and tried to get his gun.
News organizations sue for access to possible Michael Brown juvenile records

Juvenile records are confidential in Missouri, so it's not definitively known if Brown was arrested before he legally became an adult. Police have said Brown had no adult criminal record. The family's attorney, Benjamin Crump, has refused to discuss whether Brown had a juvenile record.

I hope we do get the access to his records, and I think it is likely he had a juvenile record. Otherwise, why would Crump "refuse to discuss" it rather than categorically saying that he had no record?

do you ever read what you type?

You feel the need to open a juvenile record of a dead young man? Is a person dying not enough for you? Are corpses easier targets for you?

And might I ask, have you shown this must need to know the history of the shooter or the Ferguson police department? You do remember them, do you not? The people responsible for the killing?

 

[Nice Squirrel]

Athena,
Getting his obviously encyclopedic juvenile record will show that he was once sent to the principles office for throwing a spitball and thus "was no angel" and "had what was coming to the violent thug". Hell he probably even owned a hoodie and a hip hop album -- obviosly stolen.

 

[Derec]

You feel the need to open a juvenile record of a dead young man? Is a person dying not enough for you?

We need to open it to reveal whether he had previous criminal history.

Are corpses easier targets for you?

No, but they do not have an expectation of privacy either.

And might I ask, have you shown this must need to know the history of the shooter or the Ferguson police department? You do remember them, do you not? The people responsible for the killing?

History of all involved should be examined. Why should Michael Brown's criminal history be exempted?

- - - Updated - - -

Athena,
Getting his obviously encyclopedic juvenile record will show that he was once sent to the principles office for throwing a spitball and thus "was no angel" and "had what was coming to the violent thug". Hell he probably even owned a hoodie and a hip hop album -- obviosly stolen.

We might find the strong arm robbery for the cigarillos wasn't his first rodeo.

By the way, Toni missed a huge opportunity not calling this thread "Dying for Swisher Sweets" (as a homage to the "Dying for Skittles" megathread on the old board).

 

[Nice Squirrel]

We need to open it to reveal whether he had previous criminal history.

And (if one exists) why would this be relevant?

And might I ask, have you shown this must need to know the history of the shooter or the Ferguson police department? You do remember them, do you not? The people responsible for the killing?

History of all involved should be examined. Why should Michael Brown's criminal history be exempted?

I don't understand. Does St. Louis base it justice system on the Napoleonic Code?

 

[AthenaAwakened]

Derec

Can you prove that upon the victim and the shooter meeting that day on that street, that the shooter had any awareness of any history of the life, criminal or otherwise, of the victim, Michael Brown?

 

[SimpleDon]

A new development is that some news organizations are seeking to have any juvenile criminal record of Michael Brown unsealed. If he has a juvenile record that would further undermine the narrative of the "gentle giant" who would never have attacked a police officer and tried to get his gun.
News organizations sue for access to possible Michael Brown juvenile records

Juvenile records are confidential in Missouri, so it's not definitively known if Brown was arrested before he legally became an adult. Police have said Brown had no adult criminal record. The family's attorney, Benjamin Crump, has refused to discuss whether Brown had a juvenile record.

I hope we do get the access to his records, and I think it is likely he had a juvenile record. Otherwise, why would Crump "refuse to discuss" it rather than categorically saying that he had no record?

News organizations have also sued for access to police officer Wilson's juvenile records. Do you consider them to be relevant too?

It is obviously a stunt, turnabout is fair play by an alternative news organization, but the question is real, do you think that the record of Officer Wilson is relevant?

I see that you answered my question further on.

 

[SimpleDon]

I don't remember who it was but someone noted that a witness had come forward who had a recording of the shots fired at Brown, although the witness had "lawyered up" which is apparently now considered damning by some.

Glide, the Skpe like service who the witness was using has confirmed that the time markers on the recording places the recording at what the police have said is the time of the shooting.

From glide,

A Glide user living nearby (whose identity is being protected) was simply using the Glide app on their smartphone exactly as it was designed – to instantly communicate with a friend through our real-time video texting service. Simultaneously, they also captured audio in the background of the gunshots allegedly fired at Michael Brown.
Because Glide is the only messaging application using streaming video technology, each message is simultaneously recorded and transmitted, so the exact time can be verified to the second. In this case, the video in question was created at 12:02:14 PM CDT on Saturday, August 9th.

It is here.

 

[SimpleDon]

The recording clearly records eleven shots. There is the possibly that some are echos, but it will only take the FBI, who now has the recording, minutes to tell if they are. Reflected sounds, echos, are 180 degrees out of phase with the original sounds, effectively they are mirror images of the original sounds.

I haven't followed this story very closely, you only have to read through this thread to see why, everybody is sure that they know exactly what happened, which means that everybody is probably completely wrong about what they think happened and why.

So tell me, if there were eleven shots in quick succession what if anything does that tell us?

 

[Bronzeage]

The recording clearly records eleven shots. There is the possibly that some are echos, but it will only take the FBI, who now has the recording, minutes to tell if they are. Reflected sounds, echos, are 180 degrees out of phase with the original sounds, effectively they are mirror images of the original sounds.

I haven't followed this story very closely, you only have to read through this thread to see why, everybody is sure that they know exactly what happened, which means that everybody is probably completely wrong about what they think happened and why.

So tell me, if there were eleven shots in quick succession what if anything does that tell us?

It tells us the officer kept pulling the trigger. It's a wonder someone down the street was not hit.

I'm sure the Ferguson police are trained in rapid fire marksmanship, but I wonder if they ever conduct fire/don't fire exercises, where the shooter has to make a quick decision before pulling the trigger, instead of just blasting away at the target.

 

[Sabine Grant]

IMO what it is going to come down to regarding the Grand Jury's decision to indict or not indict : whether Officer Wilson's perception of a threat of death or imminent bodily harm was justified. Meaning that the events preceding his shooting Michael Brown (specifically whether he was attacked by Brown while in his vehicle) will play an important role in having set the pace for Officer Wilson's assessing Brown as a threat necessitating the use of lethal force.

 

[Sabine Grant]

More witnesses....

http://www.cnn.com/2014/09/10/us/ferguson-michael-brown-shooting-witnesses/index.html

An exclusive cell phone video captures their reactions during the moments just after the shooting.
"He had his f**n hands up," one of the men says in the video.
The man told CNN he heard one gunshot, then another shot about 30 seconds later.
"The cop didn't say get on the ground. He just kept shooting," the man said.

The video footage being a live recording of 2 eyewitnesses of the shooting and their reaction to what they just saw. If one could venture in invalidating the narrative of other witnesses by claiming that they were changing their story to fit a "hands up" scenario, this footage captures a spontaneous reaction to what happened only minutes after the shooting.

 

[Derec]

Judge refuses to release Brown's juvenile criminal record

What do they have to hide? Certainly the family would not have objected if in fact he didn't have none. Which makes the family shyster's fiction of the "gentle giant" even shakier.

 

[AthenaAwakened]

Juvenile records are usually sealed. And they usually stay sealed and to get them unsealed, you have to prove a compelling interest other than nosy Parkers in the internet wanting to hate on a dead young man.

 

[Derec]

Juvenile records are usually sealed. And they usually stay sealed and to get them unsealed, you have to prove a compelling interest other than nosy Parkers in the internet wanting to hate on a dead young man.

There is a compelling interest in knowing what kind of criminal activity this "gentle giant" (NOT!) was involved in in the last few years of his life. It would allow us to paint a more accurate picture of the young man than is available from merely listening to what the family shyster (same as Trayvon's family shyster by the way) is feeding us. That in turn would allow us a better understanding of his frame of mind during his altercation with the police.

Far from being a gentle young man who was minding his business when the evil police officer rudely told him to get off the road we already know that he had just robbed a store and has an unspecified criminal history before turning 18. That makes it much more likely that he indeed attacked the police officer and went for his gun precipitating the shooting. It is very unlikely that the police officer just decided to kill himself a black youth just because he was walking in the middle of the road.

 

[AthenaAwakened]

Juvenile records are usually sealed. And they usually stay sealed and to get them unsealed, you have to prove a compelling interest other than nosy Parkers in the internet wanting to hate on a dead young man.

There is a compelling interest in knowing what kind of criminal activity this "gentle giant" (NOT!) was involved in in the last few years of his life. It would allow us to paint a more accurate picture of the young man than is available from merely listening to what the family shyster (same as Trayvon's family shyster by the way) is feeding us. That in turn would allow us a better understanding of his frame of mind during his altercation with the police.

Far from being a gentle young man who was minding his business when the evil police officer rudely told him to get off the road we already know that he had just robbed a store and has an unspecified criminal history before turning 18. That makes it much more likely that he indeed attacked the police officer and went for his gun precipitating the shooting. It is very unlikely that the police officer just decided to kill himself a black youth just because he was walking in the middle of the road.

prove your compelling interest in court. Oh yeah, that was just tried and it FAILED.

Because there is nothing in those records that had anything to do with the shooting that day. and since the officer did the shooting, if anyone's record need to be opened, it is the officer's.