• Welcome to the new Internet Infidels Discussion Board, formerly Talk Freethought.

Michelle Obama is a sexist

rousseau said:
Women are allowed to make jokes like that because they were oppressed for all of human history. Men are not for the same reason.
Click to expand...

Sorry, but that just isn't a valid excuse for sexist remarks. Nor is historic slavery an excuse for racist black people, or gay bashing an excuse for hetero bashing (if that ever happens). Michelle should know better. She usually is better than that, so I'll just write it off as an unfortunate gaffe.
 
Jolly_Penguin said:
If it was a flippant remark with no backing and not a parody response to anything, then yes, Athena, I would.
Click to expand...
Hold up. Who said this?

I would not simply dismiss it as a joke out of hand at first glance, just as I would not simply dismiss any other claim of superiority of a race or gender out of hand.

So your first statement is unqualified and direct. Now there is qualification. If it was a parody response, then ...

Uh huh.
Derec has a point about the double standard. If a male politician (or husband of the president) said this about women you would not have the same dismissive tone.
Click to expand...
not necessarily. If it's an joke, and its funny, then it's a joke and I laugh. That is going to be a tricky joke to make, that I will grant you, but that doesn't mean it can't be done.

But as has been explained here already, the acceptability of the FLOTUS' joke lays in the power relation between men and women. Given a set up where women are in power, and men aren't, you can make any joke you like.

And saying "It was a joke" is the last refuge of all sorts of bigotry. It is the sort of thing I'd expect to hear from the Ann Coulters of the world, not the Michelle Obamas.
Click to expand...


Show me how that joke is going to play into millenia old stereotypes about men and therefore reinforce the belief system of society that lessens the life chances men, and then you will have point. Until then, it's a joke.

But you already knew that, and so does Derec.
 
Jolly_Penguin said:
rousseau said:
Women are allowed to make jokes like that because they were oppressed for all of human history. Men are not for the same reason.
Click to expand...

Sorry, but that just isn't a valid excuse for sexist remarks. Nor is historic slavery an excuse for racist black people, or gay bashing an excuse for hetero bashing (if that ever happens). Michelle should know better. She usually is better than that, so I'll just write it off as an unfortunate gaffe.
Click to expand...

It was a joke. That dynamic makes the joke socially acceptable. If she sits down and writes a 400 page memoir on women's superior intelligence, there's a problem.

- - - Updated - - -

If this was a real issue than it'd be all over the media, and not just brought up by people with an axe to grind on an internet forum.
 
rousseau said:
Jolly_Penguin said:
Sorry, but that just isn't a valid excuse for sexist remarks. Nor is historic slavery an excuse for racist black people, or gay bashing an excuse for hetero bashing (if that ever happens). Michelle should know better. She usually is better than that, so I'll just write it off as an unfortunate gaffe.
Click to expand...

It was a joke. That dynamic makes the joke socially acceptable. If she sits down and writes a 400 page memoir on women's superior intelligence, there's a problem.

- - - Updated - - -

If this was a real issue than it'd be all over the media, and not just brought up by people with an axe to grind on an internet forum.
Click to expand...
True.
 
Jolly_Penguin said:
And saying "It was a joke" is the last refuge of all sorts of bigotry.
Click to expand...
Yes, but that doesn't work for bigotry, does it? It's a lame defense because of the exact same dynamics.

Yes, you used to be able to joke about a fill-in-the-blank stereotype. Society as a whole, however, has come to view that AS a stereotype, and the people that are the butt of such jokes as victims of bigotry. Bigots find the joke funny because they still think the stereotype is true. People say, "How dare you!" and they think 'it's just a joke' takes the curse off of it.
It's become a cliche. "When you look at me that way, it was a joke!" That's because the problem is the stereotype, not whether or not people were supposed to laugh at it, or laugh with the speaker.

So, if women being smarter than men is a stereotype that's been used to oppress women, then 'it's just a joke' would be similar to Coulter using that defense. Otherwise, it's nothing like that.
 
How many feminazis does it take to screw in a light bulb?
99 to bitch about "patriarchy" and "rape culture" and 1 to guilt some white knight to change the light bulb for her.
 
fromderinside said:
Wow. So you went all racist just because you wanted to associate light with white.*
Click to expand...
"White knight" is not reference to his skin color. It refers to a man who always defends a woman and takes her side no matter what. PZ Meyers for example has degenerated into a "white knight" figure following Elevatorgate and Donglegate.


*most custodial engineers are brown.
Click to expand...
Not that it has anything to do with what I wrote, but most of those colloquially referred to as "brown" are actually white. :tonguea:
 
fromderinside said:
Wow. So you went all racist just because you wanted to associate light with white.*
Click to expand...

Don't get me started on the unjust attacks from the left on innocent white light bulbs. The PC Brigade is pushing "compact fluorescent lamps" in an effort to deny our white light heritage.
 
Derec said:
"White knight" is not reference to his skin color. It refers to a man who always defends a woman and takes her side no matter what. PZ Meyers for example has degenerated into a "white knight" figure following Elevatorgate and Donglegate.
Click to expand...

No it is a reference to a non shitcock that has a normal relationship to women.
 
Derec said:
The Paul said:
...is the phrase misogynists use when attempting to describe basic human decency as something vile and abnormal.
Click to expand...
Always taking a woman's side is not "basic human decency" and not being a white knight is not misogyny.
Click to expand...

No, no no, you misunderstand.

I'm not saying it's misogyny not to be a white knight. It's just that if you think "white knight" is a real and useful term you're probably a misogynist.
 
The Paul said:
No, no no, you misunderstand.

I'm not saying it's misogyny not to be a white knight. It's just that if you think "white knight" is a real and useful term you're probably a misogynist.
Click to expand...

Except that I know that the phenomenon is real. As I said, just look at PZ Meyers as a particularly prominent example.
So not misogyny. By the way, why is the threshold for calling someone a "misogynist" much lower than that for calling someone a "misandrist"?
 
Derec said:
"White knight" is not reference to his skin color. It refers to a man who always defends a woman and takes her side no matter what. PZ Meyers for example has degenerated into a "white knight" figure following Elevatorgate and Donglegate.
Click to expand...

Gee. So I guess this anonymous internet wag slang trumps everything else. See: The White knight http://www.cmi-lmi.com/wknight.html  White knight (business)

Derec said:
*most custodial engineers are brown.
Click to expand...
Not that it has anything to do with what I wrote, but most of those colloquially referred to as "brown" are actually white. :tonguea:
Click to expand...

Quit going to the tanning salon man. Its affecting your brain. :wave2:
 
Derec said:
The Paul said:
No, no no, you misunderstand.

I'm not saying it's misogyny not to be a white knight. It's just that if you think "white knight" is a real and useful term you're probably a misogynist.
Click to expand...

Except that I know that the phenomenon is real. As I said, just look at PZ Meyers as a particularly prominent example.
So not misogyny.
Click to expand...

Ah. So "White Knight" is a real thing and not some misogynist MRA bullshit. For instance: Some guys think a woman doesn't deserve to be harassed for saying it makes her uncomfortable if a man approaches her in an elevator late at night. You can provide a real-world example of such a man, if pressed.

Is that your stance on the matter or have I missed something?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom