Misconceptions on George Floyd protests and lack of law enforcement

[Trausti]

[TWEET]https://twitter.com/D_How124/status/1267497659067240450[/TWEET]

 

[Mumbles]

How? Are you responsible for all the death and destruction caused by BLM? Or other lefties? You partisans just can’t understand that most people are not as myopic as you. I just hate the hypocrisy.

The destruction of the Floyd riots was incited by objective and real criminal police brutality, and thus also by those who deny and support it (IOW, you). The terrorism of yesterday was not incited by any real injustice, but by lies about fraud proven not to exist, and thus by those who told and repeated those lies and support the liars (IOW, you).

I rarely bother with this sort of foolishness, particularly since neither were actually the BLM rallies he's so bothered about, but:

First, the Kavanaugh protests did not take place in the US capitol, but in separate offices.

Second, the Kavanaugh protests were nonviolent.

And Third, they likely resulted in far more arrests than the traitors that ran into the Capitol.

 

[Deepak]

In other words, there were BLM riots in almost 220 different cities. 7% of their protests ended in riots. For the MAGAs, there's this one. And you lose your shit.

There's lies, damn lies, and statistics.

What bullshit.

This was organized expressly to cause mayhem. That's in no way comparable to BLM protests where random violence broke out. You're playing this game where you're connecting the violence to protestors without actually showing the protestors were violent. Compared to:

There's something profoundly messed up if your not able to cognize the difference between these situations. And that's not even considering the difference in goals.

Your statistical analysis is worthless.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Do we really want to talk about 2 sets of rules?

https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/07/us/police-response-black-lives-matter-protest-us-capitol/index.html

Are you unaware that the DC mayor called in the national guard? CNN didn’t report that? *shocking* They simply didn’t anticipate the crowd would head to the capital building.

They certainly should have anticipated it!

And are you aware that the DoD refused to deploy the guard?

Minor nitpick. The DC mayor can't call in the national guard... he has to request for the national guard. The President said no.

 

[ZiprHead]

They certainly should have anticipated it!

And are you aware that the DoD refused to deploy the guard?

Minor nitpick. The DC mayor can't call in the national guard... he has to request for the national guard. The President said no.

IIRC, the DC mayor requested NG support days before the rally.

 

[J842P]

They certainly should have anticipated it!

And are you aware that the DoD refused to deploy the guard?

Minor nitpick. The DC mayor can't call in the national guard... he has to request for the national guard. The President said no.

Is that what actually happened? I'm having a hard time finding a clear answer. Here's one WaPo article:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nati...299b56-510e-11eb-b2e8-3339e73d9da2_story.html

The Capitol Police, the law enforcement force that reports to Congress and protects the House and Senate, hadn’t requested help from the Guard ahead of Wednesday’s events. But early Wednesday afternoon, its chief made an urgent plea for backup from 200 troops during a call with top Pentagon and city officials, according to officials familiar with the call.

On the call, Capitol Police Chief Steven A. Sund was asked whether he wanted help from the National Guard. “There was a pause,” one of the D.C. officials said. And Sund said yes. “Then there was another pause, and an official from the [office of the] secretary of the Army said that wasn’t going to be possible.”


Members of the D.C. National Guard near the U.S. Capitol on Jan. 7. (John Moore/Getty Images)
The Army official — who was speaking on behalf of the secretary of the Army, who was de facto commanding the D.C. Guard but was not on the call — said the “optics” of soldiers inside the Capitol building was not something they wanted, the two District officials said.

Mayor Muriel E. Bowser (D) confirmed that account in an interview with The Washington Post, saying Capitol Police “made it perfectly clear that they needed extraordinary help, including the National Guard. There was some concern from the Army of what it would look like to have armed military personnel on the grounds of the Capitol.” One concern was whether the Army had been invited by Congress.

A U.S. defense official said the Army general on the call didn’t formally deny the request but rather reinforced the negative optics of having uniformed personnel inside the Capitol, a point on which Bowser had agreed, and later checked with the chain of command. The defense official said Bowser agreed that if further support was necessary, D.C. police would provide it inside the Capitol, and the Guard would backfill D.C. police positions away from the building.

The defense official said the military wanted to be the force of last resort, and that military officials had urged Bowser to request more support from federal law enforcement but that she didn’t do so until Wednesday.

Higher-up leaders at the Pentagon then evaluated the request and activated the full D.C. Guard, in addition to later calling the governors of other states to send their Guard forces as reinforcements. The officials also lifted limits on the Guard for the new mission, arming guardsmen with riot gear, but not guns, before they headed to create a perimeter around the Capitol.

Also, there is this:

The Defense Department controls the D.C. Guard because the military force answers to the president rather than the mayor. The president’s power over the D.C. Guard is delegated to the defense secretary, then the Army secretary, who makes command decisions. It is therefore up to the Pentagon leadership to call state governors if the D.C. Guard needs reinforcement.

 

[ronburgundy]

But some base it on objective facts, and some base it on proven lies, which are not a matter of opinion any more the the law of gravity.




Whether something is terrorism isn't a feeling. Breaking shit b/c your enraged at being objectively brutalized isn't terrorism. Assaulting cops and trying to smash your way into a room where politicians are, so you can frighten them into tossing out democratic votes is terrorism (as is showing up to polls with guns). And I do care about the people whose property was destroyed, but that's irrelevant to the fact that this summer's property destruction was incited by acts of violence by the police, which were either denied or openly cheered by most Trump supporters.

Grave injustice triggers destructive reactions. When the injustice is real, then those who caused the injustice bear some responsibility for the honest human reaction it triggers. When there is no injustice and just bald lies claiming injustice, then those who lied and supported the liars bear responsibility for triggering the reaction to wrongly believed injustice (like falsely yelling "fire" in a theatre). In both cases, that responsibility is with the right wing, Trump, his supporters, and supporters of police brutality (which are highly overlapping groups).

You’re just making excuses because you are sympathetic to the bad actors.

No, I am recognizing demonstrable objective facts that make the events as objectively different.

When the Einsatzgruppen gunned down Jews in Eastern Europe; when the Soviets starved the Kulaks; when ISIS beheaded the kaffirs; all excused their bad behavior as just and righteous.

When police gun down a criminal actively engaged in a violent crime, they (and you) excuse their behavior as just and righteous, just like many serial killers justify their actions. By your logic, the two are identical and any claim that one is mpre justified is just subjective bias and excuses.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Is that what actually happened?

According to the article you posted, yes, it sounds like that is exactly what happened.

A U.S. defense official said the Army general on the call didn’t formally deny the request but rather reinforced the negative optics of having uniformed personnel inside the Capitol, a point on which Bowser had agreed, and later checked with the chain of command. The defense official said Bowser agreed that if further support was necessary, D.C. police would provide it inside the Capitol, and the Guard would backfill D.C. police positions away from the building.

The defense official said the military wanted to be the force of last resort, and that military officials had urged Bowser to request more support from federal law enforcement but that she didn’t do so until Wednesday.

The Capitol Building was breached by hundreds of people, many chanting "Hang Mike Pence" during a joint session of Congress! Is there any greater reason for deploying the National Guard without a second thought? The only question is "how many do we send", not "what will the optics look like"?

Also, there is this:

The Defense Department controls the D.C. Guard because the military force answers to the president rather than the mayor. The president’s power over the D.C. Guard is delegated to the defense secretary, then the Army secretary, who makes command decisions. It is therefore up to the Pentagon leadership to call state governors if the D.C. Guard needs reinforcement.

And the Pentagon's boss is the President.

 

[Gospel]

Why would Trump call on the national Guard against people he just told "We fight like Hell and if you don’t fight like Hell, you’re not going to have a country anymore."? I doubt he had the incentive.

 

[blastula]

Yeah, he incited the mob, and then aided and abetted them by withholding troops.

In his last video, he starts out by lying, "I immediately deployed the national guard." He knows he's guilty.

 

[blastula]

I do not support what happened yesterday.

No, you just support everything that caused it.

How?

Because you're openly a Trump supporter. Duh. You've supported 5 years of a daily fire hose of lies, corruption, authoritarianism, and divisive demagoguery coming out of Trump. What happened on Wednesday was a very fitting capstone to his presidency. It wasn't unexpected or out of the blue.

You were even defending the ludicrous election lawsuits they were filing.

You like to criticize groups by calling them cults. They were people carrying Trump flags into that building, that they even raised in a chamber. Nothing is more obviously a cult than the Trump cult

Are you responsible for all the death and destruction caused by BLM? Or other lefties? You partisans just can’t understand that most people are not as myopic as you. I just hate the hypocrisy.

I don't support anyone saying anything comparably mendacious and inciteful as what comes out of Trump and all his minions.

I also don't support violence and looting as protest, I see no justification for it. I haven't supported any blm protests at all since July, I don't think even the peaceful ones are helping their cause anymore.

So a typical nonviolent protest is comparable to storming the Capitol? Because they were both inside buildings? Pathetic.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

Can we just change the title of this thread to And Whatabout Trausti?

 

[Shadowy Man]

So, the optics of soldiers in the capitol defending Congress is worse than the optics of a violent mob trashing the Capitol? Um... ok.

 

[Derec]

I saw a complaint elsewhere regarding no arrests regarding violence in the George Floyd protests, therefore, no arrests here.

There were over 13,000 arrests relating to the George Floyd protests and over 300 Federal Cases standing.

A lot of cases were dismissed though, especially local ones in counties with left wing DA's such as Multnomah. The Multnomah County DA is very pro-Antifa and routinely dismisses charges against them. For example when Antifa took over a couple of city blocks in Portland to help a "sovereign citizen" who thinks he's a Moop stay in a house without paying the mortgage.
DA Drops Charges On Portland Autonomous Zone Occupiers, Including Felon with Body Armor, After Police Find Multiple Guns

The result? Armed Antifa thugs are still patrolling that neighborhood because the DA is unwilling to prosecute crimes by Antifa.
Red House stalemate: Neighbors complain of guns, explosions

Interesting that your should mention federal charges. I think many if not most of those people would not be charged by the locals. Take lawyers Colinford Mattis and Urooj Rahman. They threw a Molotv cocktail at a police car and also distributed Molotovs to other #BLM rioters. They are facing federal charges but are getting a lot of support in the media and by other lawyers.

By the way, they caught a guy with Molotovs during the Capitol riots. Will he receive all the support those two are getting? Fat chance!

It is doubtful all people that committed acts of destruction were held accountable, but the claim that there was no law enforcement is a farce.

There has been law enforcement, but often the DAs treated these rioters with kid gloves. Unless there was a federal crime committed. Feds were quite a bit more aggressive than the locals.

 

[Derec]

You really don't see the difference between a grassroots reform demonstration and a demonstration incited by lies from top government officials?

Lies like these?

[TWEET]<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Six years ago Michael Brown was killed at the hands of police, sparking a nationwide movement and a desperately needed conversation that we are still having to this day. We cannot give up fighting against police brutality.</p>— Kamala Harris (@KamalaHarris) <a href="https://twitter.com/KamalaHarris/status/1292474475238379520?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">August 9, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>[/TWEET]

[TWEET]<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">5 years ago Michael Brown was murdered by a white police officer in Ferguson, Missouri. Michael was unarmed yet he was shot 6 times. I stand with activists and organizers who continue the fight for justice for Michael. We must confront systemic racism and police violence head on.</p>— Elizabeth Warren (@ewarren) <a href="https://twitter.com/ewarren/status/1159902078103445507?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">August 9, 2019</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>[/TWEET]

I've got serious issues with BLM, both their motivations and their methods. But to compare that to the President inciting such chaos by undermining basic US institutions is idiotic.

Not really. The two groups are different. The Capitol riot was more intensive in that they managed to get into and trash the Capitol. But #BLM violence was a lot more extensive with many businesses, police stations etc. vandalized or burned to the ground over a six year period ever since the Ferguson riots in 2014. Antifas and #BLMers even managed to occupy territory in a formerly major US city (Seattle) for weeks with local authorities doing hardly anything to stop them.

It is idiotic to try to minimize or justify #BLM and Antifa violence.

 

[Derec]

This was organized expressly to cause mayhem. That's in no way comparable to BLM protests where random violence broke out.

The #BLM riots (not protests!) have been far more destructive and deadly. This is just for 2020 #BLM riots, not including the rioting from 2014-2019.

 

[Derec]

When police gun down a criminal actively engaged in a violent crime, they (and you) excuse their behavior as just and righteous,

It is usually just and righteous.

Take the recent case of Dolal Idd. He was a convicted felon who shot at police first when they tried to take him down for an illegal gun sale. The police defended themselves. Just and righteous all the way.

 

[Derec]

I saw a complaint elsewhere regarding no arrests regarding violence in the George Floyd protests, therefore, no arrests here.

There were over 13,000 arrests relating to the George Floyd protests and over 300 Federal Cases standing.

It is doubtful all people that committed acts of destruction were held accountable, but the claim that there was no law enforcement is a farce.

To add to what I wrote before, it definitely is a farce. When #BLM/Antifa rioters routinely get their charges dismissed by friendly prosecutors, there is zero incentive for them not to riot next time.

This is what just transpired in Atlanta.

Charges dropped against 37 people arrested during Atlanta protests last summer

So how the fuck can you claim that it is not a farce? The rule of law is meaningless when it doesn't apply to those with politically correct politics.

 

[southernhybrid]

I saw a complaint elsewhere regarding no arrests regarding violence in the George Floyd protests, therefore, no arrests here.

There were over 13,000 arrests relating to the George Floyd protests and over 300 Federal Cases standing.

It is doubtful all people that committed acts of destruction were held accountable, but the claim that there was no law enforcement is a farce.

To add to what I wrote before, it definitely is a farce. When #BLM/Antifa rioters routinely get their charges dismissed by friendly prosecutors, there is zero incentive for them not to riot next time.

This is what just transpired in Atlanta.

Charges dropped against 37 people arrested during Atlanta protests last summer

So how the fuck can you claim that it is not a farce? The rule of law is meaningless when it doesn't apply to those with politically correct politics.

Without getting very involved in some of these claims, I'd at least like to point out that the charges that were dropped in Atlanta were for very minor things.

Half of those arrested were charged with violating the nightly curfew that Atlanta Mayor Keisha Lance Bottoms instituted. Most others were charged with blocking roads or disorderly conduct.

I tend to think that breaking into the capital building, in some cases with illegal guns, and potentially dangerous things, is a lot different than violating a curfew, or blocking a road. Since the disorderly conduct isn't explained, we don't know exactly what caused those charges.

There is a huge difference between the things that happened over 7 months, of what were mostly peaceful protests and what happened in one night. Plus, this isn't over yet. There are already plans by these fascists on social media to do something more on Jan. 17th. You may not approved of SJWs, but I think they are far less dangerous than people who want to take over the government and destroy whatever gets in their way. Just sayin'.

 

[Harry Bosch]

This was organized expressly to cause mayhem. That's in no way comparable to BLM protests where random violence broke out.

The #BLM riots (not protests!) have been far more destructive and deadly. This is just for 2020 #BLM riots, not including the rioting from 2014-2019.
View attachment 31228

Here's the difference: the capital riot was lead by the President of the US; the capital riot wasn't just a riot, it was an armed rebellion whose goal was to "reestablish national security and have the patriots arrest and detain the people (ie: legislators) behind the massive fraud. Trump Quote: "lets get our national affairs in order, prepare our weapons, and go hunting".