Morality in Bible stories that you don't understand

[excreationist]

Genocide the word, is commonly understood to be an intentional act against a group of people", denoting the act of murder. Murder being driven from the evil motives of hate. I don't therefore ascribe to your description, being far removed from the description of the biblical God. Your false image of God in the same sentence with genocide is a 'language trap' dialogue I won't fall into.

I think God has commanded genocide though:
Deuteronomy 20:16-17
However, in the cities of the nations the Lord your God is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes. Completely destroy them—the Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites—as the Lord your God has commanded you.

 

[Learner]

Well, what do you know! THIS is interesting!!!...

The very ancient Chinese may have a issues with that. A witness, if you will, to the Hebrew God? The focus for centuries was looking to the middle East, while China's ancient monotheism and long ancient recorded history was slept on, a good thing in disguise perhaps - ancient texts that the usual biblical scholarly sceptics aren't familiar with.

 

[Learner]

Genocide the word, is commonly understood to be an intentional act against a group of people", denoting the act of murder. Murder being driven from the evil motives of hate. I don't therefore ascribe to your description, being far removed from the description of the biblical God. Your false image of God in the same sentence with genocide is a 'language trap' dialogue I won't fall into.

I think God has commanded genocide though:
Deuteronomy 20:16-17
However, in the cities of the nations the Lord your God is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes. Completely destroy them—the Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites—as the Lord your God has commanded you.

That whole chapter refers to war, as the 1st verse puts this in context.

Deutronomy 20:1
1.When you go to war against your enemies and see horses and chariots and an army greater than yours, do not be afraid of them, because the Lord your God, who brought you up out of Egypt, will be with you.


In the verse below there are compromises to peace even if this is still in the context of war:

Deutronomy 20:10

10 When you march up to attack a city, make its people an offer of peace. 11 If they accept and open their gates, all the people in it shall be subject to forced labor and shall work for you. 12 If they refuse to make peace and they engage you in battle, lay siege to that city. 13 When the Lord your God delivers it into your hand, put to the sword all the men in it. 14 As for the women, the children, the livestock and everything else in the city, you may take these as plunder for yourselves. And you may use the plunder the Lord your God gives you from your enemies. 15 This is how you are to treat all the cities that are at a distance from you and do not belong to the nations nearby.


The verse below you highlight is again in reference to nations being against God and His people. It is difficult for Christians yes, and as I mention in my post to James, the continuation of things detestable against God, these ways of those nations ended there. In times of war they were killed yes... not murdered.

Deuteronomy 20:16-17 + verse 18
However, in the cities of the nations the Lord your God is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes. Completely destroy them—the Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites—as the Lord your God has commanded you.


18 Otherwise, they will teach you to follow all the detestable things they do in worshiping their gods, and you will sin against the Lord your God.

 

[DBT]

Being at war doesn't justify wholesale slaughter or genocide...

 

[excreationist]

Deutronomy 20:10

10 When you march up to attack a city, make its people an offer of peace. 11 If they accept and open their gates, all the people in it shall be subject to forced labor and shall work for you. 12 If they refuse to make peace and they engage you in battle, lay siege to that city. 13 When the Lord your God delivers it into your hand, put to the sword all the men in it. 14 As for the women, the children, the livestock and everything else in the city, you may take these as plunder for yourselves. And you may use the plunder the Lord your God gives you from your enemies. 15 This is how you are to treat all the cities that are at a distance from you and do not belong to the nations nearby.

So in the places that aren't in the promised land you either make everyone slaves or wipe out all of the men and keep the surviving women, etc.

The verse below you highlight is again in reference to nations being against God and His people.

No it is about every breathing thing in the promised land - not necessarily wanting to harm the chosen people.

Deuteronomy 20:16-17 + verse 18
However, in the cities of the nations the Lord your God is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes. Completely destroy them—the Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites—as the Lord your God has commanded you.

18 Otherwise, they will teach you to follow all the detestable things they do in worshiping their gods, and you will sin against the Lord your God.

So if they don't kill EVERYTHING that breathes including all of the animals and babies, those animals and babies will also teach them to worship other gods? BTW apparently King Solomon worshipped other gods and I don't think he was seriously punished though on the other hand he sacrificed 144,000 animals at one time.... (1 Kings 8:63 / 2 Chr 7:5)

 

[Thomas II]

Well, what do you know! THIS is interesting!!!...

The very ancient Chinese may have a issues with that. A witness, if you will, to the Hebrew God? The focus for centuries was looking to the middle East, while China's ancient monotheism and long ancient recorded history was slept on, a good thing in disguise perhaps - ancient texts that the usual biblical scholarly sceptics aren't familiar with.

I mean around minute 13:40, when he is talking to Ahmed Osman ...

 

[Politesse]

"We only raped and enslaved them, it wasn't technically genocide" may not have quite the rhetorical punch you were going for, when encountered by aomeone unfamiliar with the case.

 

[bilby]

Genocide the word, is commonly understood to be an intentional act against a group of people", denoting the act of murder. Murder being driven from the evil motives of hate.

How else are we to interpret God's killing of almost everyone?

Was it unintentional? "Oops, sorry, just killed everyone! My bad!".

How do you determine the motive, for an act of deliberate killing of everybody - even infants, who have had no chance to misbehave? How is that NOT murder? How??

 

[James Brown]

"It isn't genocide when God does it."™

 

[ideologyhunter]

Also, he hates abortion, but in the seventh chapter of his book he kills every human fetus on earth. Collateral damage, maybe -- he was just trying to kill everyone but 8 zookeepers.

 

[Politesse]

Also, he hates abortion

God has only hated abortion since the 1980 American presidential campaign though...

 

[Thomas II]

 

[Thomas II]

 

[Thomas II]

 

[Thomas II]

Well, what do you know! THIS is interesting!!!...

The very ancient Chinese may have a issues with that. A witness, if you will, to the Hebrew God? The focus for centuries was looking to the middle East, while China's ancient monotheism and long ancient recorded history was slept on, a good thing in disguise perhaps - ancient texts that the usual biblical scholarly sceptics aren't familiar with.

Interesting...And it made me think that Chinese "are into dragons", among other things. But the first concept of dragons, draconic creatures are first described in the mythologies of the ancient Near East and appear in ancient Mesopotamian art and literature. Stories about storm-gods slaying giant serpents occur throughout nearly all Near Eastern and Indo-European mythologies.

"Dragons in the Bible: What does the Bible say about dragons?​

Does the Bible talk about dragons? If so, what does it say?​

By Hanna Seariac
May 23, 2023, 4:57pm EDT

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In this file film publicity image released by Paramount Pictures, Hiccup, voiced by Jay Baruchel, rides Toothless in a scene from “How to Train Your Dragon.”
Paramount Pictures

In the King James version of the Bible, the word “dragon” appears several times. While dragon today refers to a mythical flying creature, the word previously had a larger semantic range. According the 1828 Webster’s Dictionary, when used in scripture, dragon seems to refer to a large serpent.
RELATED

• The religious roots of our obsession with dragons
• Sea monsters, giants and angels, oh my! Why you should study the Bible’s scary, surprising monsters

Bible verses about dragons​

• Ezekiel 29:3 says, “Speak, and say, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I am against thee, Pharaoh king of Egypt, the great dragon that lieth in the midst of his rivers, which hath said, My river is mine own, and I have made it for myself.”
• Psalms 74:13 recounts when the Lord divided the sea by force, but also says he broke the heads of dragons.
• Isaiah 34:13 also contains a reference to dragons. That reference reads, “And thorns shall come up in her palaces, nettles and brambles in the fortresses thereof: and it shall be an habitation of dragons, and a court for owls.”
• Revelation 12:3 reads, “And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.” Later, in Revelation 20:2, the text calls Satan a dragon. It states that the dragon will be bound for a thousand years.

Are dragons a myth?​

Yes. Dragons are mythical creatures, but several cultures consider them an important part of folk-lore. According to the American Museum of Natural History, “In legends and folktales, dragons are magical—yet early naturalists often treated these creatures as part of the natural world. Biologists in Europe once wrote accounts of the behavior and habitat of dragons, along with lizards and snakes. Chinese scholars have classified the dragon as one of the 369 animal species with scales.”
Throughout folkloric history, dragons have been consistently portrayed as large lizard-like or serpentine creatures, but the meaning of dragons changes from culture to culture.
In Chinese culture, dragons are considered positive. Brittanica said, “The Chinese dragon, lung, represents yang, the principle of heaven, activity, and maleness in the yinyang of Chinese cosmology.” This differs from other cultures like in the Middle East, where dragons were considered evil."

https://www.deseret.com/faith/2022/9/25/23365918/what-does-the-bible-say-about-dragons#:~:text=Revelation 12:3 reads, “,bound for a thousand years.

 

[Politesse]

Well, what do you know! THIS is interesting!!!...

The very ancient Chinese may have a issues with that. A witness, if you will, to the Hebrew God? The focus for centuries was looking to the middle East, while China's ancient monotheism and long ancient recorded history was slept on, a good thing in disguise perhaps - ancient texts that the usual biblical scholarly sceptics aren't familiar with.

Interesting...And it made me think that Chinese "are into dragons", among other things. But the first concept of dragons, draconic creatures are first described in the mythologies of the ancient Near East and appear in ancient Mesopotamian art and literature. Stories about storm-gods slaying giant serpents occur throughout nearly all Near Eastern and Indo-European mythologies.

"Dragons in the Bible: What does the Bible say about dragons?​

Does the Bible talk about dragons? If so, what does it say?​

By Hanna Seariac
May 23, 2023, 4:57pm EDT

• Facebook
• Twitter
• SHARE

• 
  

In this file film publicity image released by Paramount Pictures, Hiccup, voiced by Jay Baruchel, rides Toothless in a scene from “How to Train Your Dragon.”
Paramount Pictures

In the King James version of the Bible, the word “dragon” appears several times. While dragon today refers to a mythical flying creature, the word previously had a larger semantic range. According the 1828 Webster’s Dictionary, when used in scripture, dragon seems to refer to a large serpent.
RELATED

• The religious roots of our obsession with dragons
• Sea monsters, giants and angels, oh my! Why you should study the Bible’s scary, surprising monsters

Bible verses about dragons​

• Ezekiel 29:3 says, “Speak, and say, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I am against thee, Pharaoh king of Egypt, the great dragon that lieth in the midst of his rivers, which hath said, My river is mine own, and I have made it for myself.”
• Psalms 74:13 recounts when the Lord divided the sea by force, but also says he broke the heads of dragons.
• Isaiah 34:13 also contains a reference to dragons. That reference reads, “And thorns shall come up in her palaces, nettles and brambles in the fortresses thereof: and it shall be an habitation of dragons, and a court for owls.”
• Revelation 12:3 reads, “And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.” Later, in Revelation 20:2, the text calls Satan a dragon. It states that the dragon will be bound for a thousand years.

Are dragons a myth?​

Yes. Dragons are mythical creatures, but several cultures consider them an important part of folk-lore. According to the American Museum of Natural History, “In legends and folktales, dragons are magical—yet early naturalists often treated these creatures as part of the natural world. Biologists in Europe once wrote accounts of the behavior and habitat of dragons, along with lizards and snakes. Chinese scholars have classified the dragon as one of the 369 animal species with scales.”
Throughout folkloric history, dragons have been consistently portrayed as large lizard-like or serpentine creatures, but the meaning of dragons changes from culture to culture.
In Chinese culture, dragons are considered positive. Brittanica said, “The Chinese dragon, lung, represents yang, the principle of heaven, activity, and maleness in the yinyang of Chinese cosmology.” This differs from other cultures like in the Middle East, where dragons were considered evil."

https://www.deseret.com/faith/2022/9/25/23365918/what-does-the-bible-say-about-dragons#:~:text=Revelation 12:3 reads, “,bound for a thousand years.

Ah yes. The good ol' 1828 Webster dictionary. I always have my copy handy, too, wouldn't want to be caught repeating out of date information.

 

[Thomas II]

 

[excreationist]

What creationists say about dragons (that they're dinosaurs)

Dragons: Fact or Fable?

Cultures around the world have legends of great beasts called dragons. Are these merely mythological creatures, or are these legends founded on real history?

answersingenesis.org

 

[Politesse]

I remember being taught that one at Jesus Camp when I was a kid. And St George and the Dragon was a factual account.

 

[Thomas II]

I remember being taught that one at Jesus Camp when I was a kid. And St George and the Dragon was a factual account.

It was a crocodile...
While in the military, George came across the village of Silene in Northern Africa in the province of Libya (near the present-day city of Al-Khums and the nearby archaeological site Leptis Magna). It was a pagan village that had been terrorized by a crocodile that had taken up residence in a pond near the town.

(Extinct Animals in Libya. The Scimitar-Horned Oryx is now extinct in the wild, and the Barbary lion is completely extinct. Desert crocodiles were once plentiful in lakes and rivers in the Sahara until a century ago, and they are rare elsewhere in the Middle East.)