Morality in Bible stories that you don't understand

[Thomas II]

I go with what Mauro Biglino said:

"Again, as an official Hebrew translator, I can say at once that the biblical Elohim were not one single being, let alone God. Rather, they were a plurality of material, flesh-and-blood individuals. A multitude which is clearly and unequivocally mentioned in numerous passages of the Old Testament (Exodus 3,12 et seq.; Exodus 15,5 et seq.; Exodus 18,11 et seq.; Deuteronomy 6,14 et seq.; Deuteronomy 13,7 et seq.; Deuteronomy 32,17 et seq.; Jeremiah 7,18).

The Elohim represented a military hierarchy that divided the planet into spheres of influence, as instructed by their commander whom the Bible calls Elyon (Deuteronomy 32, “the one who is above, the one who commands”). They divided the Earth into governorates in which the peoples were assigned to individual Elohim. The Bible unequivocally calls them by their names: Yahweh, Milkom, Kamosh, Dagon, Qosh and so on."

https://www.maurobiglino.com/en/why-the-bible-does-not-talk-about-god/

 

[excreationist]

The early Israelites were polytheistic and worshipped Yahweh alongside a variety of Canaanite gods and goddesses, including El, Asherah and Baal.[8]

Could you tell me what time this is referring to? I mean is it around the time of Deuteronomy 20:16-18 when God tells them not to worship the gods of the Canaanites, etc, or were they worshipping Canaanite gods when they were said to be in Egypt or before that?

 

[DBT]

It seems that polytheism was a part of Israelite and Judean theology between the 10th century and 7th centuries BC.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Abraham allegedly walked, talked, and sat down with Yahweh.

Yahweh spoke to Moses from a burning bush.

They blew the budget with Genesis and couldn't afford God's appearances post Genesis. So they needed to make with gimmicks for rest of the book.

 

[Politesse]

It seems that polytheism was a part of Israelite and Judean theology between the 10th century and 7th centuries BC.

I'm confused whenever supposedly Bible-literate people evince surprise at this obvious fact. The Scriptures themselves talk all the time about Israelites worshipping deities other than YHWH, they're just super judgemental about it, as we're reading works composed mostly by priests of YHWH.

 

[Cheerful Charlie]

The early Israelites were polytheistic and worshipped Yahweh alongside a variety of Canaanite gods and goddesses, including El, Asherah and Baal.[8]

Could you tell me what time this is referring to? I mean is it around the time of Deuteronomy 20:16-18 when God tells them not to worship the gods of the Canaanites, etc, or were they worshipping Canaanite gods when they were said to be in Egypt or before that?

Joshua 24:14
“Now therefore fear the LORD, and serve him in sincerity and in truth: and put away the gods which your fathers served on the other side of the flood, and in Egypt; and serve ye the LORD.”

 

[Cheerful Charlie]

It seems that polytheism was a part of Israelite and Judean theology between the 10th century and 7th centuries BC.

I'm confused whenever supposedly Bible-literate people evince surprise at this obvious fact. The Scriptures themselves talk all the time about Israelites worshipping deities other than YHWH, they're just super judgemental about it, as we're reading works composed mostly by priests of YHWH.

By the 7th century BCE, the Yawehists were battling the worshippers of Baal, Ashera, Tammuz and other gods. Explicitly.

 

[Politesse]

It seems that polytheism was a part of Israelite and Judean theology between the 10th century and 7th centuries BC.

I'm confused whenever supposedly Bible-literate people evince surprise at this obvious fact. The Scriptures themselves talk all the time about Israelites worshipping deities other than YHWH, they're just super judgemental about it, as we're reading works composed mostly by priests of YHWH.

By the 7th century BCE, the Yawehists were battling the worshippers of Baal, Ashera, Tammuz and other gods. Explicitly.

Yes, but their priesthood never had absolute power, not even over the royal court never mind the people.

 

[excreationist]

It seems that polytheism was a part of Israelite and Judean theology between the 10th century and 7th centuries BC.

Well King Solomon was worshipping other gods, etc, around that time and he built the temple...

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

The early Israelites were polytheistic and worshipped Yahweh alongside a variety of Canaanite gods and goddesses, including El, Asherah and Baal.[8]

Could you tell me what time this is referring to? I mean is it around the time of Deuteronomy 20:16-18 when God tells them not to worship the gods of the Canaanites, etc, or were they worshipping Canaanite gods when they were said to be in Egypt or before that?

The Tanakh was not written as time was going by in Chronological order.

 

[Thomas II]

How did Jesus see Yhwh?

 

[Learner]

I go with what Mauro Biglino said:

"Again, as an official Hebrew translator, I can say at once that the biblical Elohim were not one single being, let alone God. Rather, they were a plurality of material, flesh-and-blood individuals. A multitude which is clearly and unequivocally mentioned in numerous passages of the Old Testament (Exodus 3,12 et seq.; Exodus 15,5 et seq.; Exodus 18,11 et seq.; Deuteronomy 6,14 et seq.; Deuteronomy 13,7 et seq.; Deuteronomy 32,17 et seq.; Jeremiah 7,18).

The Elohim represented a military hierarchy that divided the planet into spheres of influence, as instructed by their commander whom the Bible calls Elyon (Deuteronomy 32, “the one who is above, the one who commands”). They divided the Earth into governorates in which the peoples were assigned to individual Elohim. The Bible unequivocally calls them by their names: Yahweh, Milkom, Kamosh, Dagon, Qosh and so on."

https://www.maurobiglino.com/en/why-the-bible-does-not-talk-about-god/

There have been several similar ideas to the above. I remember a time when even I was fascinated with ancient civilizations' in the mid 2000s - Being quite intrigued with the different takes from different authors/modern originators of these 'gods origin' portrayed as romantic epics, which is quite attractive compared to the biblical narrative. Zachariah Sitchin was known for the Anunaki, and their relationship with humans in which a Dr. Michael Haiser, who was also a translator of Hebrew, had issues with the idea.. Search for the civilisations Atlantis and Lemuria , starseed philosophies etc.. to name a few competitors to the bible.

The bible indeed acknowledges the pagan gods as false gods, I would include some of the fallen angels, (the earliest of worshiping gods, the lesser) who left their estates. (as described in the book of Enoch) Yahweh of course isn't among them. Other gods as the bible describe are either men or wooden or carved statues etc.. All this combined, I believe is were the many gods come in the theology. Intriguingly... the Chinese have an ancient belief (*Classical China) long before Confucius, that mirrors closely to the Hebrews and Genesis, Shang-Di the Heavenly King. A long history, slept on.



Quite a wealth of material for the imagination to come up with romantic epic alternatives, than the image simplicity of Jesus.

 

[Thomas II]

I go with what Mauro Biglino said:

"Again, as an official Hebrew translator, I can say at once that the biblical Elohim were not one single being, let alone God. Rather, they were a plurality of material, flesh-and-blood individuals. A multitude which is clearly and unequivocally mentioned in numerous passages of the Old Testament (Exodus 3,12 et seq.; Exodus 15,5 et seq.; Exodus 18,11 et seq.; Deuteronomy 6,14 et seq.; Deuteronomy 13,7 et seq.; Deuteronomy 32,17 et seq.; Jeremiah 7,18).

The Elohim represented a military hierarchy that divided the planet into spheres of influence, as instructed by their commander whom the Bible calls Elyon (Deuteronomy 32, “the one who is above, the one who commands”). They divided the Earth into governorates in which the peoples were assigned to individual Elohim. The Bible unequivocally calls them by their names: Yahweh, Milkom, Kamosh, Dagon, Qosh and so on."

https://www.maurobiglino.com/en/why-the-bible-does-not-talk-about-god/

There have been several similar ideas to the above. I remember a time when even I was fascinated with ancient civilizations' in the mid 2000s - Being quite intrigued with the different takes from different authors/modern originators of these 'gods origin' portrayed as romantic epics, which is quite attractive compared to the biblical narrative. Zachariah Sitchin was known for the Anunaki, and their relationship with humans in which a Dr. Michael Haiser, who was also a translator of Hebrew, who had issues with the idea.. Search for the civilisations Atlantis and Lemuria , starseed philosophies etc..

The bible indeed acknowledges the pagan gods as false gods, I would include some of the fallen angels, (the earliest of worshiping gods, the lesser) who left their estates. (as described in the book of Enoch) Yahweh of course isn't among them. Other gods as the bible describe are either men or wooden or carved statues etc.. This I believe is were the many gods come in the theology. Intriguingly... the Chinese have an ancient belief (*Classical China) long before Confucius, that mirrors closely to the Hebrews and Genesis, Shang-Di the Heavenly King.

Quite a wealth of material for the imagination to come up with more romantic alternative, superhero types, than the image simplicity of Jesus.

So basically you go the path of "faith"...It's simpler for you...I understand...

But my question was "How did Jesus see YHWH?"

One of the reasons is the statement in Aramaic "Eloi Eloi lama sabachthani!" - Mark 15:34

 

[Learner]

Do you mean before Jesus was born on the earth as a human (regarding physical death)? Hearing the voice of God? 'The word was with God the word was God' ... wouldn't be a problem in concept. (Ill read back on some pages and posts)

 

[Thomas II]

Do you mean before Jesus was born on the earth as a human (regarding physical death)? Hearing the voice of God? 'The word was with God the word was God' ... wouldn't be a problem in concept. (Ill read back on some pages and posts)

No, Jesus screamed the "Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani" when he was on the cross dying! Why did he feel forsaken?
And by whom?

 

[Learner]

Do you mean before Jesus was born on the earth as a human (regarding physical death)? Hearing the voice of God? 'The word was with God the word was God' ... wouldn't be a problem in concept. (Ill read back on some pages and posts)

No, Jesus screamed the "Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani" when he was on the cross dying! Why did he feel forsaken?
And by whom?

Sorry, I hastily left the forum, didn't notice you put in the last bit:
"One of the reasons is the statement in Aramaic "Eloi Eloi lama sabachthani!" - Mark 15:34"

It is a good question. At this moment (requires me to delve in depth), looking from the simple view, as a human, recognising the most physical of pain and suffering, unbearable to other humans, is what is being highlighted here - Jesus suffering as a physical human could do in the ordeal mentioned in the bible . Logically, by the concept, by the act, sacrifice and suffering etc... there would be NO value or significance, IF Jesus for example, He was" desensitized to pain, stress and suffering" so to speak!

Imo, I believe this was meant to show this, similar to the verses below:

Mathew 36And he said, Abba, Father, all things are possible unto thee; take away this cup from me: nevertheless not what I will, but what thou wilt.
Luke 42 Saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done.


Foresight to such human suffering, would be a typical psychological stress in Jesus's mind... as a man, as portrayed in the verses above, especially when Jesus won't walk away with a miracle from the abhorrent ordeal. It was written to be, and be fulfilled etc.

 

[Thomas II]

Ok, so "forsaken" is because he is suffering. And who is Eloi? He didn't say Abba! Is he talking about Yhwh? Or Elohim?

 

[steve_bank]

Learner, the key phrase you used is IMO.

The bible is likely only a small part of the all the ancinet Jewish writings and the gopsels are sparse. And even modern Jews do not know the context in which the ancient Hebrews used the stories.

Your human barin fills in the blanks. I read of psychology exerments that demstrates how we humans fill in the blanks with what we think should be there. We naturaly fill in the blanks in order to make sense of something. The study called it a surival mechanism, interpolating sparse information to make a decision.

When we read good fiction like Lord Of The Rings we create the story in our heads. Our imagination makes the characters real.

Jesus is a charatcter in a fictional story possbly with some of it based on real events.

 

[Learner]

Ok, so "forsaken" is because he is suffering. And who is Eloi? He didn't say Abba! Is he talking about Yhwh? Or Elohim?

There is the common significance regarding prophecy, with the same words in Psalms 22:1

1. My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?
Why art thou so far from helping me, and from the words of my roaring?

"Eloi Eloi lama sabachthani!" compared to the above, I would assume Eloi refers to God.

 

[Learner]

Learner, the key phrase you used is IMO.

The bible is likely only a small part of the all the ancinet Jewish writings and the gopsels are sparse. And even modern Jews do not know the context in which the ancient Hebrews used the stories.

Your human barin fills in the blanks. I read of psychology exerments that demstrates how we humans fill in the blanks with what we think should be there. We naturaly fill in the blanks in order to make sense of something. The study called it a surival mechanism, interpolating sparse information to make a decision.

When we read good fiction like Lord Of The Rings we create the story in our heads. Our imagination makes the characters real.

Jesus is a charatcter in a fictional story possbly with some of it based on real events.

Of course steve. I don't claim to be the Guru of Christianity.