More and More Americans Think Astrology Is Science

[Perspicuo]

More and More Americans Think Astrology Is Science
www.motherjones.com/blue-marble/2014/02/public-opinion-astrology-dumb

"I believe in a lot of astrology." So commented pop megastar Katy Perry in a recent GQ interview. She also said she sees everything through a "spiritual lens"…and that she believes in aliens.

According to data from the National Science Foundation's just-released 2014 Science and Engineering Indicators study, Americans are moving in Perry's direction. In particular, the NSF reports that the percentage of Americans who think astrology is "not at all scientific" declined from 62 percent in 2010 to just 55 percent in 2012 (the last year for which data is available). As a result, NSF reports that Americans are apparently less skeptical of astrology than they have been at any time since 1983.

What's going on?
Or what's not going on for this to happen?

 

[Trodon]

When I look at the horoscope in a newspaper, the message for each of the twelve signs can have some relevance to my life if I use some some imagination. When I look at the horoscope for the same day in another newspaper there is no similarity between the signs, but again each message can have some relevance to my life.

The Chinese classic the I Ching is similar. I think astrology and I Ching can be valuable in making difficult decisions in ways that are consistent with the kind person you are, and what is most consistent with your subconscious mind.

Although astrology can be psychologically useful, it cannot predict the outcome of an inanimate object. Do not use it to find out which lottery number or horse will win. Do not use it when selecting stocks to buy.

 

[Eldarion Lathria]

I always say that astrology is that which is left behind in a field by a taurus.

Eldarion Lathria

 

[Juma]

Although astrology can be psychologically useful,

Really? Believing in astrology can be "psycholigically useful"? Explain yourself.

 

[Keith&Co.]

Although astrology can be psychologically useful,

Really? Believing in astrology can be "psycholigically useful"? Explain yourself.

I don't think he means believing that Mars being in retrograde has an actual effect on you. The arrangement of the stars is random. But someone's come up with a system of symbolism that your mind can act upon. Like he said, with some imagination he can apply about any horoscope to his own life.
The question is what your imagination does in response to the generic trigger. I lean more towards, tarot, myself. I don't believe supernatural forces guide the arragement. But when the cards indicate that my greatest upcoming challenge is 'travel, perhaps by water,' it's interesting to see what's the first thing my mind produces as a response to this call.

My tarot reading is all about me, with no need for supernatural explanations, just images and my subconscious response. The horoscope seems, to me, to be similar. Useful for introspection. And for a conversation starter.

 

[Perspicuo]

An empirical study in a peer-reviewed journal on the usefulness of horoscopes in making decisions, would be helpful.

 

[Juma]

My tarot reading is all about me, with no need for supernatural explanations, just images and my subconscious response. The horoscope seems, to me, to be similar. Useful for introspection. And for a conversation starter.

That is exactly what I am is sceptical about. It seems to be effective but is really only deceptive.

 

[Keith&Co.]

That is exactly what I am is sceptical about. It seems to be effective but is really only deceptive.

Eh.
It's got to be as effective as those tests in magazines about 'ten questions to determine the state of your marriage' or 'which religion is best for your dog.' It starts me thinking and it keeps strangers from sitting next to me in the airport. This is especially effective in election years...

 

[Juma]

That is exactly what I am is sceptical about. It seems to be effective but is really only deceptive.

Eh.
It's got to be as effective as those tests in magazines about 'ten questions to determine the state of your marriage' or 'which religion is best for your dog.' It starts me thinking and it keeps strangers from sitting next to me in the airport. This is especially effective in election years...

Ok. Then maybe not what trodon referred to... I wait for his reply.

 

[bilby]

My tarot reading is all about me, with no need for supernatural explanations, just images and my subconscious response. The horoscope seems, to me, to be similar. Useful for introspection. And for a conversation starter.

That is exactly what I am is sceptical about. It seems to be effective but is really only deceptive.

I dunno; I can see where Keith is coming from here.

When I have to pick between two options, and I am finding it hard to choose, I will toss a coin - giving me a 50-50 chance of selecting either outcome; and then if I find that I am disappointed by the result, I change to the other option. With no decision made, it seems to be easier for two choices to look equal; by forcing an arbitrary decision, I find that I can raise any unconscious objections I have to the less favourable choice to the level of conscious thought, enabling me to choose.

It seems to be easier for the brain (or at least, for MY brain) to answer the question "You have A; would you prefer to have B instead?" than it is to answer the logically equivalent question "Which do you want, A or B?".

Of course, all of this is completely internal to the person making the choice; it has no predictive value, nor any influence on the outside world - both of which are falsely claimed by astrology. My feeling is that these deceptions are far from being outweighed by the small benefit that arises from making decisions easier, and that the net benefit of astrology is therefore sharply negative. We would be much better off without it.

 

[J842P]

I can see at least some of the responses might be confusion of astrology for astronomy.

 

[Bronzeage]

It's easy to argue that astrology can't possibly work, but it's difficult to argue with anything that works so well as astrology.

That's just the Scorpio in me talking.

 

[bilby]

Anyone who believes that astrology works must be Pisces.

 

[Keith&Co.]

Of course, all of this is completely internal to the person making the choice; it has no predictive value, nor any influence on the outside world - both of which are falsely claimed by astrology.

Yeah. It's odd how people will talk confidently about the failure rate of the weatherman on TV (without actually keeping track of forecasts vs. actual weather), and then just as confidently assert how their horoscope helps them chart (no pun intended) a path through life's difficulties, again without actually keeping track of predictions vs. results.
But then, just when i figure this coworker is simply credulous, he says he never plays the state Lottery because it's a tax on the math challenged.

 

[Bronzeage]

That is exactly what I am is sceptical about. It seems to be effective but is really only deceptive.

I dunno; I can see where Keith is coming from here.

When I have to pick between two options, and I am finding it hard to choose, I will toss a coin - giving me a 50-50 chance of selecting either outcome; and then if I find that I am disappointed by the result, I change to the other option. With no decision made, it seems to be easier for two choices to look equal; by forcing an arbitrary decision, I find that I can raise any unconscious objections I have to the less favourable choice to the level of conscious thought, enabling me to choose.

It seems to be easier for the brain (or at least, for MY brain) to answer the question "You have A; would you prefer to have B instead?" than it is to answer the logically equivalent question "Which do you want, A or B?".

Of course, all of this is completely internal to the person making the choice; it has no predictive value, nor any influence on the outside world - both of which are falsely claimed by astrology. My feeling is that these deceptions are far from being outweighed by the small benefit that arises from making decisions easier, and that the net benefit of astrology is therefore sharply negative. We would be much better off without it.

The paradox of predicting the future is that a truly accurate and useful prediction will never come true.

As the Philosopher Creedence once said, "Don't go out tonight, it's bound to take your life. There's a bad moon on the rise." The person who heeds this prediction will stay inside and thus avoid being killed under a bad moon. The purpose of prediction is to allow us to change our behavior, which of course changes events. One will notice, Creedence does not say, "Don't go out tonight, you're bound to be run over by a drunk driver who loses control and leaves the roadway at the corner of 5th and Main, sometime around 11pm." It never gets that specific, but no one who receives this prediction is going to near 5th and Main, that night.

 

[thebeave]

This is a somewhat famous experiment done by James Randi on astrology.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Astrology is a subset science in Sociology. It is a study on just how random and vague predictions/advice can be before people start wondering whether they hold any value in them. The findings so far... pretty random, pretty fucking vague. The only diffference between religion and astrology is that fewer deaths are related to astrology.

What is interesting that the stars and planets don't rearrange themselves day by day. Yet we have daily horoscopes. Furthermore, you'd think horoscopes would shit themselves on days of notable astronomical significance like eclipses.

What is even more interesting is that our Astrological personality is decided the moment we get pushed out, pulled from a vagina. If astrology had any basis in truth, it'd be based on conception and development of the fetus. That'd be when the astrological forces would actually be applied on the developing mind and body.

 

[Keith&Co.]

That'd be when the astrological forces would actually be applied on the developing mind and body.

As the father of three boys, i'm not entirely sure when to mark the 'start of the developing mind' but i think it's somewhere around 18.

 

[Trodon]

Although astrology can be psychologically useful,

Really? Believing in astrology can be "psycholigically useful"? Explain yourself.

I already did. When facing a difficult decision astrology - as well as I Ching, and probably Tarot, although I know less about Tarot - can bring one in touch with his subconscious mind.

 

[Juma]

Really? Believing in astrology can be "psycholigically useful"? Explain yourself.

I already did. When facing a difficult decision astrology - as well as I Ching, and probably Tarot, although I know less about Tarot - can bring one in touch with his subconscious mind.

And that is what I question. I think it just start a new narration, bringing up another scenario which has really no bearing on yourself and thus let you feel good on making the wrong decisions.