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More BRICS - more countries join that political and economic bloc

lpetrich

lpetrich

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 BRICS

"The term BRIC was originally developed in the context of foreign investment strategies. It was introduced in the 2001 publication, Building Better Global Economic BRICs by then-chairman of Goldman Sachs Asset Management, Jim O'Neill."

But BRIC itself started out with the foreign ministers of Brazil, Russia, India, and China meeting in 2006 and discussing how to improve cooperation in investment strategies. Those four nations then formally organized BRIC in 2009, and not long afterward, they expressed a desire for an international currency that would be an alternative to the US dollar.

South Africa joined in 2010, and BRIC became BRICS.

BRICS then worked on an alternative to the Western-dominated World Bank and International Monetary Fund, creating the New Development Bank.

BRICS Now Includes Saudi Arabia, Iran, UAE, Ethiopia, Egypt - Bloomberg
Saudi Arabia, Iran, the United Arab Emirates, Ethiopia and Egypt accepted invitations to join starting on Jan. 1. Argentina was invited as well, but President Javier Milei, who took office on Dec. 10, decided against joining. He had indicated during his campaign that he would steer his country’s foreign policy away from China and Brazil, saying, “Our geopolitical alignment is with the United States and Israel. We are not going to ally with communists.”
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Communists? China is a capitalist roader, and Russia is also capitalist. This says a lot more about Javier Milei than it does about those countries.
The push was largely driven by China, which has sought to increase its global clout, and had the backing of Russia and South Africa. India was concerned a bigger BRICS would transform the group into a mouthpiece for China, while Brazil was worried about alienating the West.

... However, expansion is “more about politics and less about economics,” according to analysts at Bloomberg Economics. The enlarged alliance may become a stronger counterweight to the so-called Group of Seven — Canada, France, Germany, Italy, Japan, the UK and the US.

...
The biggest achievements of the group have been financial. The countries agreed to pool $100 billion of foreign-currency reserves, which they can lend to each other during emergencies. That liquidity facility became operational in 2016. They founded the New Development Bank — a World Bank-inspired institution that has approved almost $33 billion of loans — mainly for water, transport and other infrastructure projects — since it began operations in 2015. (South Africa borrowed $1 billion in 2020 to fight the Covid-19 pandemic.) By comparison, the World Bank committed $70.8 billion to partner countries in fiscal 2022.
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So there are now 10 BRICS countries (10 BRICS?).

30 New Countries Ready To Join BRICS in 2024, Confirms Russia
Noting BRICS doubles in size with 5 new members; Putin hints at further expansion - Rediff.com India News - I looked there and I did not find any list.

But  BRICS and  Member states of BRICS list some possibilities.

These 15 countries have applied to join BRICS: Algeria, Bahrain, Bangladesh, Belarus, Bolivia, Cuba, Kazakhstan, Kuwait, NIgeria, Pakistan, Palestine, Senegal, Thailand, Venezuela, Vietnam

Interested in joining BRICS: Afghanistan, Angola, Comoros, DR Congo, Gabon, Guinea-Bissau, Libya, Myanmar, Nicaragua, South Sudan, Sudan, Syria, Tunisia, Turkey, Somalia, Uganda, Zimbabwe

That makes 32 countries, more than Vladimir Putin's target.
 
Many, if not most, of the BRICS countries are basket cases economically and politically. I think Milei is right not to align Argentina with them. Lpetrich, he referred to China and Brazil as "communist". China is effectively capitalist but still officially communist, and while Brazil is not communist, Lula is a far leftist. Brazil made a big mistake reelecting that grade school dropout.
 
lpetrich said:
 BRICS

"The term BRIC was originally developed in the context of foreign investment strategies. It was introduced in the 2001 publication, Building Better Global Economic BRICs by then-chairman of Goldman Sachs Asset Management, Jim O'Neill."

But BRIC itself started out with the foreign ministers of Brazil, Russia, India, and China meeting in 2006 and discussing how to improve cooperation in investment strategies. Those four nations then formally organized BRIC in 2009, and not long afterward, they expressed a desire for an international currency that would be an alternative to the US dollar.

South Africa joined in 2010, and BRIC became BRICS.

BRICS then worked on an alternative to the Western-dominated World Bank and International Monetary Fund, creating the New Development Bank.

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Do you not realize that this is really selling out to Chinese control? China funds things and then takes control of the stuff when the locals don't make the payments.

IMF wants countries to get their act together. China wants to foreclose, they don't actually care if the country gets it's act together. The latter is better for the local politicians because it supports more graft, but it's far worse for the countries.
 
The only times I ever hear BRICS being mentioned is from right wing shills cheerleading for Putin. Like Russell Brand, Jimmy Dore* or Tucker Carlson.

*Yes Jimmy Dore is right wing. Saying Jimmy Dore is left wing because he once spat in Alex Jones' face is like saying Republicans couldn't possibly be bigots because Lincoln freed the slaves.
 
Patooka said:
The only times I ever hear BRICS being mentioned is from right wing shills cheerleading for Putin. Like Russell Brand, Jimmy Dore* or Tucker Carlson.
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I've been hearing about them since mid-2000s, from various sources, including news media. New rising economies, end of dollar hegemony, blah blah. Things died down a few years later as their economies started facing difficulties. Now we are hearing more about them again.
*Yes Jimmy Dore is right wing. Saying Jimmy Dore is left wing because he once spat in Alex Jones' face is like saying Republicans couldn't possibly be bigots because Lincoln freed the slaves.
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What exactly makes Dore "right wing"? He seems to be a so-called "progressive". He supported Bernie, he was part of the far-left "The Young Turks" show ...
Now, according to the Horseshoe Theory, the extremes of left and right curve towards each other. That may explain your confusion. Also, those both on left and right might support Russia. Do you think Green Party candidate and vandal Jill Stein is a right-winger too?
 
Derec said:
Many, if not most, of the BRICS countries are basket cases economically and politically.
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Founding members are not busket cases. South Africa has some troubles. But BRIC part of BRICS are progressing rather well. I am little worried about speed with which some busket cases get in, though.

To me this is all a demonstration of unhappiness of the 3rd world with the US/West.
 
barbos said:
Founding members are not busket cases.
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The hell they are not!
Brazil - GDP dropped about 1/4 since 2011, and they have a high crime rate (>3x the homicide rate as US).
Russia - sanctioned to hell due to the ill-advised war of aggression against Ukraine. Economy is in the shitter. Dictator for life Putin.
India - At least the GDP has been steadily growing, but per capita it is still ~2.2k. There are also big problems with overpopulation and pollution.
China - By far the most powerful of the four. But there are big concerns about the economy, and just like with India, with pollution.
Also, it's "basket case", not a "busket case".
South Africa has some troubles. But BRIC part of BRICS are progressing rather well. I am little worried about speed with which some busket cases get in, though.
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All of them have "some troubles". But yes, compared with some of the newcomers, they are going swimmingly.
To me this is all a demonstration of unhappiness of the 3rd world with the US/West.
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Throwing your lot with China is jumping from the frying pan into the fire.
 
Derec said:
Russia - sanctioned to hell due to the ill-advised war of aggression against Ukraine. Economy is in the shitter
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Russia surpassed Germany and is now the largest economy in Europe.
Of course Germany dropped but Russian economy grew as well.
This is despite US aggression against Russia and ... Europe for that matter.
 
Derec said:
Throwing your lot with China is jumping from the frying pan into the fire.
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We'll see. You have had basically 50 years ordering 3rd world around after they formally kicked you out. And results are not great. So I can't fault them for trying something new.
 
barbos said:
Russia surpassed Germany and is now the largest economy in Europe.
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How do you figure that?
I am looking at IMF data.
It lists Germany as having a GDP of $4.7T and glorious Russian Federation weighs in at mere $1.9T.
That's not even close.
Perhaps you had purchasing power parity (PPP) in mind, rather than real money. Note that this is not an appropriate metric for claiming X is "the largest economy in Europe", but I'll play.
So for PPP I get $5.72T for Germany and $5.23T for Russia. Close, but no cigar.
Of course, Russia has a bigger population than Germany. On a per capita basis, Russia is far behind Germany.
Of course Germany dropped but Russian economy grew as well.
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Thanks no doubt to oil and gas exports.
This is despite US aggression against Russia and ... Europe for that matter.
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What? US aggression against Russia? And Europe too?
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barbos said:
Russia surpassed Germany and is now the largest economy in Europe.
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No, it didn't; And no, it isn't.

IMG_1127.jpeg

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For those of you who learned mathematics in Russia, I should point out that 4.481 is larger than 4.081 (by about 9.8%).

Russia is also spreading that GDP over a far larger population; Nobody cares what absolute GDP is when comparing nations to determine which are shitholes like Russia, and which are developed and pleasant economies to live and work in, like Germany.

Germany has a PPP per Capita GDP of $66,000; Russia's is $35,310.

Now we return you to Barbos, who will provide the mandatory Kremlin propaganda, along with zero actual data or references, to explain why his original claim isn't complete crap.
 
barbos said:
nominal GDP is trash, no self-respecting economist compares nominal GDP.
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[citation needed] for that claim.
I think both metrics have their uses, for example PPP is good when the issue at hand is internal economy of the country, i.e. goods and services people purchase locally, rather than import or export.
However, real-money GDP makes most sense for comparison of which economy is bigger.
 
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