MSF Response to Pentagon Claim That Afghan Forces Called For Kunduz Airstrike

[tupac chopra]

MSF Response to Pentagon Claim That Afghan Forces Called For Kunduz Airstrike

"Today the US government has admitted that it was their airstrike that hit our hospital in Kunduz and killed 22 patients and MSF staff. Their description of the attack keeps changing—from collateral damage, to a tragic incident, to now attempting to pass responsibility to the Afghanistan government.

The reality is the US dropped those bombs. The US hit a huge hospital full of wounded patients and MSF staff. The US military remains responsible for the targets it hits, even though it is part of a coalition. There can be no justification for this horrible attack. With such constant discrepancies in the US and Afghan accounts of what happened, the need for a full transparent independent investigation is ever more critical."

—Christopher Stokes, General Director, Médecins Sans Frontières

 

[Will Wiley]

The Radically Changing Story of the U.S. Airstrike on Afghan Hospital: From Mistake to Justification

When news first broke of the U.S. airstrike on the Doctors Without Borders hospital in Kunduz, Afghanistan, the response from the U.S. military was predictable and familiar. It was all just a big, terrible mistake, its official statement suggested: an airstrike it carried out in Kunduz “may have resulted in collateral damage to a nearby medical facility.” Oops: our bad. Fog of war, errant bombs, and all that.

This obfuscation tactic is the standard one the U.S. and Israel both use whenever they blow up civilian structures and slaughter large numbers of innocent people with airstrikes. Citizens of both countries are well-trained – like some tough, war-weary, cigar-chomping general – to reflexively spout the phrase “collateral damage,” which lets them forget about the whole thing and sleep soundly, telling themselves that these sorts of innocent little mistakes are inevitable even among the noblest and most well-intentioned war-fighters, such as their own governments. The phrase itself is beautifully technocratic: it requires no awareness of how many lives get extinguished, let alone acceptance of culpability. Just invoke that phrase and throw enough doubt on what happened in the first 48 hours and the media will quickly lose interest.

But there’s something significantly different about this incident that has caused this “mistake” claim to fail. Usually, the only voices protesting or challenging the claims of the U.S. military are the foreign, non-western victims who live in the cities and villages where the bombs fall. Those are easily ignored, or dismissed as either ignorant or dishonest. Those voices barely find their way into U.S. news stories, and when they do, they are stream-rolled by the official and/or anonymous claims of the U.S. military, which are typically treated by U.S. media outlets as unassailable authority.

Hopefully Glenn is right

 

[tupac chopra]

Edward Snowden has an idea.

AC-130 warplanes record the gunner's video and audio. It's time to release the tapes to an #IndependentInvestigation. pic.twitter.com/jtFyVCJ7Uw
— Edward Snowden (@Snowden) October 7, 2015

 

[Loren Pechtel]

MSF Response to Pentagon Claim That Afghan Forces Called For Kunduz Airstrike

"Today the US government has admitted that it was their airstrike that hit our hospital in Kunduz and killed 22 patients and MSF staff. Their description of the attack keeps changing—from collateral damage, to a tragic incident, to now attempting to pass responsibility to the Afghanistan government.

The reality is the US dropped those bombs. The US hit a huge hospital full of wounded patients and MSF staff. The US military remains responsible for the targets it hits, even though it is part of a coalition. There can be no justification for this horrible attack. With such constant discrepancies in the US and Afghan accounts of what happened, the need for a full transparent independent investigation is ever more critical."

—Christopher Stokes, General Director, Médecins Sans Frontières

So they're basically ignoring the reality of the situation.

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Edward Snowden has an idea.

AC-130 warplanes record the gunner's video and audio. It's time to release the tapes to an #IndependentInvestigation. pic.twitter.com/jtFyVCJ7Uw
— Edward Snowden (@Snowden) October 7, 2015

I guess he's an idiot. The tapes won't show what path the fire order followed to get there, only the identity of whoever relayed it.

 

[Axulus]

Putin's forces have already damaged 3 Syrian medical facilities in a week like it's nobody's business:

On Wednesday, Physicians for Human Rights, an advocacy group, said it had confirmed that Russian airstrikes had damaged three medical facilities in Syria.

“With these actions, Russia is damaging hospitals, putting patients and medical staff at risk, and depriving civilians of lifesaving access to health care,” the group said in a statement.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/08/w...izes-for-bombing-of-afghanistan-hospital.html

How many more will they damage?

 

[Will Wiley]

Putin's forces have already damaged 3 Syrian medical facilities in a week like it's nobody's business:

On Wednesday, Physicians for Human Rights, an advocacy group, said it had confirmed that Russian airstrikes had damaged three medical facilities in Syria.

“With these actions, Russia is damaging hospitals, putting patients and medical staff at risk, and depriving civilians of lifesaving access to health care,” the group said in a statement.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/08/w...izes-for-bombing-of-afghanistan-hospital.html

How many more will they damage?

You haven't shown that any were damaged yet. Your link and every other one I could find don't even know what sort of damage was supposed to have happened.
There are already seems to be lies about the Russian airstrikes. Is this another one?

“Information on Civilian Casualties” Appeared “Before” Russian Jets in Syrian Airspace

Do you have a link that has some useful information or evidence?

With the US crime we know the place, we know the names of those killed we know when it happened, we know that the US kept attacking the hospital after they were told they were doing that.




But even if true it doesn't excuse what the US did.

 

[zorq]

- - - Updated - - -

Edward Snowden has an idea.

AC-130 warplanes record the gunner's video and audio. It's time to release the tapes to an #IndependentInvestigation. pic.twitter.com/jtFyVCJ7Uw
— Edward Snowden (@Snowden) October 7, 2015

I guess he's an idiot. The tapes won't show what path the fire order followed to get there, only the identity of whoever relayed it.

Well I guess if we had the identity of who relayed the fire order, we might be able to ask them who gave the order. And if that order was passed down from someone else we could ask them who gave that order. I guess if we just keep asking the right questions we might be able to figure out exactly what happened and who's fault it was. But nah... that's idiotic.

 

[Jayjay]

Putin's forces have already damaged 3 Syrian medical facilities in a week like it's nobody's business:



http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/08/w...izes-for-bombing-of-afghanistan-hospital.html

How many more will they damage?

You haven't shown that any were damaged yet. Your link and every other one I could find don't even know what sort of damage was supposed to have happened.
There are already seems to be lies about the Russian airstrikes. Is this another one?

“Information on Civilian Casualties” Appeared “Before” Russian Jets in Syrian Airspace

Do you have a link that has some useful information or evidence?

Google is your friend. (Ok not really but metaphorically)

http://physiciansforhumanrights.org...lanes-strike-medical-facilities-in-syria.html

PHR has confirmed the following incidents by Russian air strikes in Syria over the last week:

On October 2, a Russian warplane launched an air strike on the field hospital in Latamneh, in northern Hama governorate. The facility was damaged, and multiple medical staff members were injured. The Syrian government has previously attacked this facility with barrel bombs in June.

Also on October 2, a Russian warplane launched an air strike on an ambulance depot and emergency response center in Benin, in rural Idlib. Part of the facility was destroyed, at least two ambulances were seriously damaged, and the depot was temporarily put out of service. Reports indicate that two planes flew over the facility and launched strikes that fell around the depot before circling back and launching another strike, which landed inside the depot. The Syrian government previously attacked this facility with barrel bombs in April.

On October 3, a Russian warplane launched an air strike that damaged al-Burnas Hospital in northern Latakia, near the Turkish border. The hospital suffered minor material damage, but had to be evacuated. The hospital is the only one in the region with an obstetrics/gynecology unit and is now only able to provide some emergency services.

On the other hand, the link you provided was a Russian propaganda piece quoting Putin.

 

[Derec]

Edward Snowden has an idea.

I wonder if he's going to be as vocal about what Russian planes and missiles hit in Syria.

 

[barbos]

Having a medical facility near ISIS target is a sure way to have it damaged a little.
And who's facility was it anyway? ISIS?

- - - Updated - - -

Edward Snowden has an idea.

I wonder if he's going to be as vocal about what Russian planes and missiles hit in Syria.

Well, so far Russians have been publishing videos themselves.

 

[barbos]

You haven't shown that any were damaged yet. Your link and every other one I could find don't even know what sort of damage was supposed to have happened.
There are already seems to be lies about the Russian airstrikes. Is this another one?

“Information on Civilian Casualties” Appeared “Before” Russian Jets in Syrian Airspace

Do you have a link that has some useful information or evidence?

Google is your friend. (Ok not really but metaphorically)

http://physiciansforhumanrights.org...lanes-strike-medical-facilities-in-syria.html

PHR has confirmed the following incidents by Russian air strikes in Syria over the last week:

On October 2, a Russian warplane launched an air strike on the field hospital in Latamneh, in northern Hama governorate. The facility was damaged, and multiple medical staff members were injured. The Syrian government has previously attacked this facility with barrel bombs in June.

Also on October 2, a Russian warplane launched an air strike on an ambulance depot and emergency response center in Benin, in rural Idlib. Part of the facility was destroyed, at least two ambulances were seriously damaged, and the depot was temporarily put out of service. Reports indicate that two planes flew over the facility and launched strikes that fell around the depot before circling back and launching another strike, which landed inside the depot. The Syrian government previously attacked this facility with barrel bombs in April.

On October 3, a Russian warplane launched an air strike that damaged al-Burnas Hospital in northern Latakia, near the Turkish border. The hospital suffered minor material damage, but had to be evacuated. The hospital is the only one in the region with an obstetrics/gynecology unit and is now only able to provide some emergency services.

On the other hand, the link you provided was a Russian propaganda piece quoting Putin.

First videos did in fact appear before actual strikes. My guess they tried too hard to be first.
As for these hospitals then they say themselves - "minor damage"
I have no doubt that russian bombing will fuck up eventually, but so far they are not close to US fuckups, not to mention Saudi Arabia daily fuckups in Yemen.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Putin's forces have already damaged 3 Syrian medical facilities in a week like it's nobody's business:

On Wednesday, Physicians for Human Rights, an advocacy group, said it had confirmed that Russian airstrikes had damaged three medical facilities in Syria.

“With these actions, Russia is damaging hospitals, putting patients and medical staff at risk, and depriving civilians of lifesaving access to health care,” the group said in a statement.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/08/w...izes-for-bombing-of-afghanistan-hospital.html

How many more will they damage?

Of course it doesn't matter. Leftist positions make a lot more sense if you figure they came from Moscow than from what the leftists purport to believe in.

- - - Updated - - -

- - - Updated - - -

Edward Snowden has an idea.

AC-130 warplanes record the gunner's video and audio. It's time to release the tapes to an #IndependentInvestigation. pic.twitter.com/jtFyVCJ7Uw
— Edward Snowden (@Snowden) October 7, 2015

I guess he's an idiot. The tapes won't show what path the fire order followed to get there, only the identity of whoever relayed it.

Well I guess if we had the identity of who relayed the fire order, we might be able to ask them who gave the order. And if that order was passed down from someone else we could ask them who gave that order. I guess if we just keep asking the right questions we might be able to figure out exactly what happened and who's fault it was. But nah... that's idiotic.

Which is what they are already investigating.

An outside investigator wouldn't get very far because they would almost certainly be told to take a hike for asking for classified data.

- - - Updated - - -

You haven't shown that any were damaged yet. Your link and every other one I could find don't even know what sort of damage was supposed to have happened.
There are already seems to be lies about the Russian airstrikes. Is this another one?

“Information on Civilian Casualties” Appeared “Before” Russian Jets in Syrian Airspace

Do you have a link that has some useful information or evidence?

Do you have a link that has useful information??

That's site is conspiracy crap, not worth the electrons needed to load the page.

 

[Will Wiley]

You haven't shown that any were damaged yet. Your link and every other one I could find don't even know what sort of damage was supposed to have happened.
There are already seems to be lies about the Russian airstrikes. Is this another one?

“Information on Civilian Casualties” Appeared “Before” Russian Jets in Syrian Airspace

Do you have a link that has some useful information or evidence?

Google is your friend. (Ok not really but metaphorically)

http://physiciansforhumanrights.org...lanes-strike-medical-facilities-in-syria.html

PHR has confirmed the following incidents by Russian air strikes in Syria over the last week:

On October 2, a Russian warplane launched an air strike on the field hospital in Latamneh, in northern Hama governorate. The facility was damaged, and multiple medical staff members were injured. The Syrian government has previously attacked this facility with barrel bombs in June.

Also on October 2, a Russian warplane launched an air strike on an ambulance depot and emergency response center in Benin, in rural Idlib. Part of the facility was destroyed, at least two ambulances were seriously damaged, and the depot was temporarily put out of service. Reports indicate that two planes flew over the facility and launched strikes that fell around the depot before circling back and launching another strike, which landed inside the depot. The Syrian government previously attacked this facility with barrel bombs in April.

On October 3, a Russian warplane launched an air strike that damaged al-Burnas Hospital in northern Latakia, near the Turkish border. The hospital suffered minor material damage, but had to be evacuated. The hospital is the only one in the region with an obstetrics/gynecology unit and is now only able to provide some emergency services.

On the other hand, the link you provided was a Russian propaganda piece quoting Putin.

If Russia really did launch an airstrike on a hospital as your New York based NGO claims then tpeople would have bbeen killed. If Russia really did launch an airstrike on an ambulalance depot as your New York based NGO claims then why were just two ambulances damaged? They would have been obliterated.

When you deliberately launch an airstrike as the US did then people get killed and there is a lot of damage.
Something doesn't add up.

But this thread is about Doctors without Borders anyway.
I realise you didn't go off topic and thanks for the link....

Can Axulus please start another thread if you want to change the topic?

 

[Bronzeage]

Here's how it goes:

MSF: The US bombed our hospital. Someone must be held responsible!

US: Yeah, our bad. How much do you want?

MSF: What? You can't put a price on human life.

US: Well, that could be a problem. If you can't put a price on human life, how do we know how much to pay?

MSF: You don't understand.You killed 24 people with your bombs.

US: We killed a fuck lot more than that, but we're talking about your 24 people. Give me a number and we can get this over.

 

[Jayjay]

Google is your friend. (Ok not really but metaphorically)

http://physiciansforhumanrights.org...lanes-strike-medical-facilities-in-syria.html

PHR has confirmed the following incidents by Russian air strikes in Syria over the last week:

On October 2, a Russian warplane launched an air strike on the field hospital in Latamneh, in northern Hama governorate. The facility was damaged, and multiple medical staff members were injured. The Syrian government has previously attacked this facility with barrel bombs in June.

Also on October 2, a Russian warplane launched an air strike on an ambulance depot and emergency response center in Benin, in rural Idlib. Part of the facility was destroyed, at least two ambulances were seriously damaged, and the depot was temporarily put out of service. Reports indicate that two planes flew over the facility and launched strikes that fell around the depot before circling back and launching another strike, which landed inside the depot. The Syrian government previously attacked this facility with barrel bombs in April.

On October 3, a Russian warplane launched an air strike that damaged al-Burnas Hospital in northern Latakia, near the Turkish border. The hospital suffered minor material damage, but had to be evacuated. The hospital is the only one in the region with an obstetrics/gynecology unit and is now only able to provide some emergency services.

On the other hand, the link you provided was a Russian propaganda piece quoting Putin.

First videos did in fact appear before actual strikes. My guess they tried too hard to be first.
As for these hospitals then they say themselves - "minor damage"
I have no doubt that russian bombing will fuck up eventually, but so far they are not close to US fuckups, not to mention Saudi Arabia daily fuckups in Yemen.

The reason why the US bombing of a hospital in Kunduz is news because it happens so rarely, and because US is held to a higher standard (as it should be) than Syria, Saudi Arabia or Russia. That's not to excuse US in any way, but let's keep the incident in perspective: The civilian death toll from Syrian forces, now assisted by Russia, far exceeds the civilian death toll from American fuckups.

 

[tupac chopra]

The reason why the US bombing of a hospital in Kunduz is news because it happens so rarely, and because US is held to a higher standard (as it should be) than Syria, Saudi Arabia or Russia. That's not to excuse US in any way, but let's keep the incident in perspective: The civilian death toll from Syrian forces, now assisted by Russia, far exceeds the civilian death toll from American fuckups.

The US Has Bombed at Least Eight Wedding Parties Since 2001

 

[barbos]

The reason why the US bombing of a hospital in Kunduz is news because it happens so rarely, and because US is held to a higher standard (as it should be) than Syria, Saudi Arabia or Russia. That's not to excuse US in any way, but let's keep the incident in perspective: The civilian death toll from Syrian forces, now assisted by Russia, far exceeds the civilian death toll from American fuckups.

Civilian deaths from Afgan, Iraqi and FSA forces assisted by US far exceeds anything else.
Truth is, ISIS was a result of US fuckup.
The reason why Kunduz is a news is because western doctors were killed.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

The reason why the US bombing of a hospital in Kunduz is news because it happens so rarely, and because US is held to a higher standard (as it should be) than Syria, Saudi Arabia or Russia. That's not to excuse US in any way, but let's keep the incident in perspective: The civilian death toll from Syrian forces, now assisted by Russia, far exceeds the civilian death toll from American fuckups.

Yup. The very fact that they are substantial news is evidence they are rare. Routine things are not news. If you see a half page about <a> and 2 inches about a related <b> you can pretty much assume <b> is far more common than <a>.

- - - Updated - - -

The reason why the US bombing of a hospital in Kunduz is news because it happens so rarely, and because US is held to a higher standard (as it should be) than Syria, Saudi Arabia or Russia. That's not to excuse US in any way, but let's keep the incident in perspective: The civilian death toll from Syrian forces, now assisted by Russia, far exceeds the civilian death toll from American fuckups.

The US Has Bombed at Least Eight Wedding Parties Since 2001

But how many of those were being used as cover for terrorist meetings? A wedding provides very good cover.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

But how many of those were being used as cover for terrorist meetings? A wedding provides very good cover.

In what fucked up mindset would that make it OK to murder innocent civilians at a wedding because some terrorists might be in the middle of the crowd?

This sort of attitude is one of the main reasons that they're able to recruit new members as quickly as you're able to kill off the old members.

 

[barbos]

Yup. The very fact that they are substantial news is evidence they are rare. Routine things are not news. If you see a half page about <a> and 2 inches about a related <b> you can pretty much assume <b> is far more common than <a>.

- - - Updated - - -

The reason why the US bombing of a hospital in Kunduz is news because it happens so rarely, and because US is held to a higher standard (as it should be) than Syria, Saudi Arabia or Russia. That's not to excuse US in any way, but let's keep the incident in perspective: The civilian death toll from Syrian forces, now assisted by Russia, far exceeds the civilian death toll from American fuckups.

The US Has Bombed at Least Eight Wedding Parties Since 2001

But how many of those were being used as cover for terrorist meetings?

None?

A wedding provides very good cover.

Apparently not.