MSF Response to Pentagon Claim That Afghan Forces Called For Kunduz Airstrike

[Jimmy Higgins]

That was his father, wasn't it?

Oops, you're right. It gets confusing when the new ruler has the same name as the old one!

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Why Is the U.S. Refusing an Independent Investigation If Its Hospital Airstrike Was an “Accident”?

In Geneva this morning, Doctors Without Borders (MSF) demanded a formal, independent investigation into the U.S. airstrike on its hospital in Kunduz. The group’s international president, Dr. Joanne Liu (pictured above, center), specified that the inquiry should be convened pursuant to war crime-investigating procedures established by the Geneva Conventions and conducted by The International Humanitarian Fact-Finding Commission. “Even war has rules,” Liu said. “This was just not an attack on our hospital. It was an attack on the Geneva Conventions. This cannot be tolerated.”

It's hard to believe this was an accident. Firstly strikes have to be approved, and there are layers to go through. Secondly if it had been a mistake they would have stopped when the hospital contacted them.

This makes it very hard to believe.
https://twitter.com/HNajafizada/status/651439348009799680

You're assuming the hospital could prove they really were the hospital.

They did so on September 29th when it became apparent violence was going to be a problem in the area. They let the Afghans and Americans know exactly where they were, well before the sustained attacks ever happened.

You really think they don't get false reports of improper targets in order to try to stop attacks???

From MSF?! This was a war crime.

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You must think the US military are imbeciles

You're not making sense!

The point is that a claim that the attack is hitting a wrong target isn't something that can be instantly determined.

Based on what we know, they didn't strike the "wrong" target. They struck it, repeatedly, even after being reminded what they were striking.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

They did so on September 29th when it became apparent violence was going to be a problem in the area. They let the Afghans and Americans know exactly where they were, well before the sustained attacks ever happened.

You really think they don't get false reports of improper targets in order to try to stop attacks???

From MSF?! This was a war crime.

You're being very naive about the possible deceptions the bad guys might engage in.

Just because a caller says they are MSF doesn't mean they really are.

You must think the US military are imbeciles

You're not making sense!

The point is that a claim that the attack is hitting a wrong target isn't something that can be instantly determined.

Based on what we know, they didn't strike the "wrong" target. They struck it, repeatedly, even after being reminded what they were striking.

They struck a target they shouldn't have. And you haven't proven that they were actually, credibly notified that they were hitting a hospital.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

They did so on September 29th when it became apparent violence was going to be a problem in the area. They let the Afghans and Americans know exactly where they were, well before the sustained attacks ever happened.

From MSF?! This was a war crime.

You're being very naive about the possible deceptions the bad guys might engage in.

I think you are being quite naive that you think they weren't targeting the hospital. They didn't accidentally bomb a hospital. They bombed a hospital on purpose.

Just because a caller says they are MSF doesn't mean they really are.

Granted, we are barely into the new millennium, but we have these things called computers where you input data... data for coordinates of a hospital. Data for where to drop bombs. This information can be double checked quite thoroughly. In fact, it was most likely checked before the hospital bombing run happened.

You must think the US military are imbeciles

You're not making sense!

The point is that a claim that the attack is hitting a wrong target isn't something that can be instantly determined.

Based on what we know, they didn't strike the "wrong" target. They struck it, repeatedly, even after being reminded what they were striking.

They struck a target they shouldn't have. And you haven't proven that they were actually, credibly notified that they were hitting a hospital.

This is absurd! That level of evidence is only available to a handful of people intimately involved with such communications. How in the would is Wiley supposed to provide that level of evidence. MSF says they contacted the military. The military does not dispute that.

 

[dismal]

You're being very naive about the possible deceptions the bad guys might engage in.

I think you are being quite naive that you think they weren't targeting the hospital. They didn't accidentally bomb a hospital. They bombed a hospital on purpose.

Are you calling for Obama to do time on this one? Or just his resignation?

 

[Nexus]

Are you calling for Obama to do time on this one? Or just his resignation?

A fair trial before a war crimes tribunal would be enough.

 

[bilby]

You're being very naive about the possible deceptions the bad guys might engage in.

I think you are being quite naive that you think they weren't targeting the hospital. They didn't accidentally bomb a hospital. They bombed a hospital on purpose.

Just because a caller says they are MSF doesn't mean they really are.

Granted, we are barely into the new millennium, but we have these things called computers where you input data... data for coordinates of a hospital. Data for where to drop bombs. This information can be double checked quite thoroughly. In fact, it was most likely checked before the hospital bombing run happened.

You must think the US military are imbeciles

You're not making sense!

The point is that a claim that the attack is hitting a wrong target isn't something that can be instantly determined.

Based on what we know, they didn't strike the "wrong" target. They struck it, repeatedly, even after being reminded what they were striking.

They struck a target they shouldn't have. And you haven't proven that they were actually, credibly notified that they were hitting a hospital.

This is absurd! That level of evidence is only available to a handful of people intimately involved with such communications. How in the would is Wiley supposed to provide that level of evidence. MSF says they contacted the military. The military does not dispute that.

Perhaps it was a secret hospital, that nobody in the US military had any way of finding out the location of. Because MSF always work out of secret hospitals in undisclosed locations. /sarcasm

 

[barbos]

I must admit, I have nothing on this one, no plausible hypothesis on how and why this happened.

 

[Will Wiley]

I must admit, I have nothing on this one, no plausible hypothesis on how and why this happened.

Well if it was an accident, then it was an accident. It does raise some questions though.
If it was deliberate, then, who knows.

I imagine though, that if there were Taliban leaders being cared for in the hospital, and someone turned up to "borrow" them, that a doctor who worked for MSF might be able to stare them down. Those doctors know the risks. They know it may happen to them. .
That is the risk of working for MSF. You are caring for someone and the other side shows up
Of course that's crazy, but if it was not an accident then....?

 

[Frikki]

Putin's forces have already damaged 3 Syrian medical facilities in a week like it's nobody's business:

On Wednesday, Physicians for Human Rights, an advocacy group, said it had confirmed that Russian airstrikes had damaged three medical facilities in Syria.

“With these actions, Russia is damaging hospitals, putting patients and medical staff at risk, and depriving civilians of lifesaving access to health care,” the group said in a statement.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/08/w...izes-for-bombing-of-afghanistan-hospital.html

How many more will they damage?

I unlike you, aspire to be better than the fucking Russians.

 

[Will Wiley]

MSF: 'Potential Evidence' Was Destroyed by Vehicle at Kunduz Hospital

A vehicle containing U.S. personnel "destroyed potential evidence" on Thursday by forcing its way onto the ruined site of a hospital bombed by American forces in Afghanistan, the charity said.

Doctors Without Borders, which ran the facility in Kunduz, initially said the vehicle was a "U.S. tank," although U.S. military officials in Kabul and the Pentagon later denied this.

"We don't even have tanks there," one official pointed out.

The charity, which is also known as Médecins Sans Frontières (MSF), said in an emailed statement to NBC News that it had been informed the tank contained a delegation from a "U.S./NATO/Afghan investigation team" looking into the incident. It did not say who provided that information.

The charity said the vehicle's "unannounced and forced entry" through the gates had also frightened staff and damaged property.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

MSF: 'Potential Evidence' Was Destroyed by Vehicle at Kunduz Hospital

A vehicle containing U.S. personnel "destroyed potential evidence" on Thursday by forcing its way onto the ruined site of a hospital bombed by American forces in Afghanistan, the charity said.

Doctors Without Borders, which ran the facility in Kunduz, initially said the vehicle was a "U.S. tank," although U.S. military officials in Kabul and the Pentagon later denied this.

"We don't even have tanks there," one official pointed out.

The charity, which is also known as Médecins Sans Frontières (MSF), said in an emailed statement to NBC News that it had been informed the tank contained a delegation from a "U.S./NATO/Afghan investigation team" looking into the incident. It did not say who provided that information.

The charity said the vehicle's "unannounced and forced entry" through the gates had also frightened staff and damaged property.

Since they said "tank" when there weren't any in theater how credible are they??

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

MSF: 'Potential Evidence' Was Destroyed by Vehicle at Kunduz Hospital

Since they said "tank" when there weren't any in theater how credible are they??

Good point. I'm starting to doubt the US military bombed the hospital at all.