Municipal Gas Station Proves Popular in Kentucky

[Bronzeage]

The people who make most of the big decisions with respect to gas stations are not the people you see inside them.

Would it be fair to say you don't have much understanding of what goes into running gas stations?

No, the people who make those decisions are the ones who run gas stations, not simply the ones who work at the counter. Like, for instance, the municipal employees who have been running this gas station.

What is the skillset that the people doing such jobs for a corporation have which you feel that the people doing such jobs for the municipality don't have?

It's not that complicated. I'm sure any good city government would have people who could run a gas station. That's not the important questions.

The real question is who is paying for all this. The station attendant is a city employee, so somewhere there is a payroll clerk in the personnel office, who keeps track of his/her pay. There is probably insurance and pension included in the deal, so that's another expense of running a gas station that is not likely to be considered. When the station needs maintenance, will this be paid out of the general operating fund, or does the small fuel profits go into a reserve set aside for this purpose. What about insurance? Does the city have insurance which covers the damages is a citizen is injured or their car is set on fire at the pump? I'm sure the insurance company feels there is a difference in the risk between fueling government vehicles and selling to the public. There are many small expenses which go into running a business. It's easy to piggyback a small operation on a big one and lose sight of the real expenses.

 

[ksen]

Bronzeage, it's an already existing municipal fueling station that private citizens can now use. Why do you think that's all of a sudden going to require all these additional costs?

 

[Tom Sawyer]

No, the people who make those decisions are the ones who run gas stations, not simply the ones who work at the counter. Like, for instance, the municipal employees who have been running this gas station.

What is the skillset that the people doing such jobs for a corporation have which you feel that the people doing such jobs for the municipality don't have?

It's not that complicated. I'm sure any good city government would have people who could run a gas station. That's not the important questions.

The real question is who is paying for all this. The station attendant is a city employee, so somewhere there is a payroll clerk in the personnel office, who keeps track of his/her pay. There is probably insurance and pension included in the deal, so that's another expense of running a gas station that is not likely to be considered. When the station needs maintenance, will this be paid out of the general operating fund, or does the small fuel profits go into a reserve set aside for this purpose. What about insurance? Does the city have insurance which covers the damages is a citizen is injured or their car is set on fire at the pump? I'm sure the insurance company feels there is a difference in the risk between fueling government vehicles and selling to the public. There are many small expenses which go into running a business. It's easy to piggyback a small operation on a big one and lose sight of the real expenses.

It seems to me that every single one of those expenses would have an equivalent expense at a gas station run by a corporation. I also don't see why those expenses would be significantly different if only municipal vehicles are allowed to fill up there.

 

[Bronzeage]

Who is "we?"

If this price is actually less than the final cost of delivering a gallon of gas to a citizens car, the taxpayers are subsidizing driving a car.

If you read the story you'd know the city is not selling under cost. They are selling at cost plus a couple percentage points. What they are not doing is charging for profit.

Why stop at gasoline? Food is a critical need. Why not open a no frills discount grocery store. Medical care is a critical need. Why not open the county health department to the public and sell low cost medical care?

Indeed, why not do this?

There's nothing magical about "profit" that causes things to be done faster or better. Oftentimes the quest for profits leads to dangerous shortcuts and lost lives.

In the meantime, I hope the sewers of Somerset flow downhill, the potholes are filled, the grass is cut at all the parks(I assume they have parks), the police cars have good tires and the roofs of the schools don't leak. This is what people expect when they pay taxes to a city.

Maybe you should read the story so you don't start making points that aren't related to this at all. There's no diversion of tax revenues from other places to this one fueling station.

Yes, I read the story and even quoted part of it. There is more to the cost of a gallon of gas, than the wholesale price.

I don't believe there is no diversion of tax dollars because I don't believe that is possible.

If you believe government work can't lead to short cuts and lost lives, I have to assume you have never worked for the government.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Is it much of a business? They don't really set prices for the main product they sell, they usually don't perform any service for distributing the product, and may not even be involved in the financial transaction either. So all they need to do is sell over priced bags of Cheez-Its and reasonably priced sodas, beer, and cigarettes.

In my experience gasoline companies spend a tremendous amount of time and effort in setting the gasoline price. The clerk does not just hang up the number he feels like that day.

That is what I said. They don't set the price. Outside sources do.

You touch on convenience store operations, which opens up a whole new set of issues. Pricing, promotions, staffing, training, optimal facility layout. Etc.

But this place doesn't do that.

 

[Keith&Co.]

In my experience gasoline companies spend a tremendous amount of time and effort in setting the gasoline price. The clerk does not just hang up the number he feels like that day. Price too low, you're screwed. Price too high, you're also screwed. There are entire organizations set up just to set the price. They also have organizations whose job it is to set up procurement channels to insure reliable and low cost supply of gasoline.

All of which is absolutely meaningless in this case.
We spent X per gallon to buy gas.
We charge X +Y% to sell the gas.

Done.

 

[Bronzeage]

It's not that complicated. I'm sure any good city government would have people who could run a gas station. That's not the important questions.

The real question is who is paying for all this. The station attendant is a city employee, so somewhere there is a payroll clerk in the personnel office, who keeps track of his/her pay. There is probably insurance and pension included in the deal, so that's another expense of running a gas station that is not likely to be considered. When the station needs maintenance, will this be paid out of the general operating fund, or does the small fuel profits go into a reserve set aside for this purpose. What about insurance? Does the city have insurance which covers the damages is a citizen is injured or their car is set on fire at the pump? I'm sure the insurance company feels there is a difference in the risk between fueling government vehicles and selling to the public. There are many small expenses which go into running a business. It's easy to piggyback a small operation on a big one and lose sight of the real expenses.

It seems to me that every single one of those expenses would have an equivalent expense at a gas station run by a corporation. I also don't see why those expenses would be significantly different if only municipal vehicles are allowed to fill up there.

As I said, it's easy to piggyback off a larger organization and lose track of the expenses. Is it a significant difference? That would depend upon anyone's definition of significant. The city can use government workers to support the gas station and the cost of their time is not put against the sales of gasoline.

There is certainly one expense which is significantly different. We can be certain the city gas station is not paying property taxes.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

It seems to me that every single one of those expenses would have an equivalent expense at a gas station run by a corporation. I also don't see why those expenses would be significantly different if only municipal vehicles are allowed to fill up there.

As I said, it's easy to piggyback off a larger organization and lose track of the expenses. Is it a significant difference? That would depend upon anyone's definition of significant. The city can use government workers to support the gas station and the cost of their time is not put against the sales of gasoline.

There is certainly one expense which is significantly different. We can be certain the city gas station is not paying property taxes.

OK, true. I fail to see what that would have to do with their ability to run a gas station, however.

My posts were in response to dismal's question about city workers not being as good as corporate workers at running a gas station.

 

[ksen]

Yes, I read the story and even quoted part of it. There is more to the cost of a gallon of gas, than the wholesale price.

Ok. So what costs do you think aren't going to be covered given that the station is charging the cost to them per gallon plus a slight markup? Sounds like they're the people using the service will be covering the cost of that service at the pump.

I don't believe there is no diversion of tax dollars because I don't believe that is possible.

Your feelings don't trump the facts as laid out in the story.

If you believe government work can't lead to short cuts and lost lives, I have to assume you have never worked for the government.

There is a lot more accountability with government than there is in private business.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Somehow I doubt the cost allocations are correct.

 

[ksen]

It seems to me that every single one of those expenses would have an equivalent expense at a gas station run by a corporation. I also don't see why those expenses would be significantly different if only municipal vehicles are allowed to fill up there.

As I said, it's easy to piggyback off a larger organization and lose track of the expenses. Is it a significant difference? That would depend upon anyone's definition of significant. The city can use government workers to support the gas station and the cost of their time is not put against the sales of gasoline.

The cost of their time is already in the city budget.

There is certainly one expense which is significantly different. We can be certain the city gas station is not paying property taxes.

It's already not paying property taxes. So what?

- - - Updated - - -

Somehow I doubt the cost allocations are correct.

shocker

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Somehow I doubt the cost allocations are correct.

Why? Is Hamas involved?

 

[Nice Squirrel]

Cities are run by people, gas stations are run by people. People is the common factor, so as long as you have people employed by the city who are capable of doing the job, why shouldn't they be any good at it?

Ah.

Are people working for a city likely to be as good at running gas stations as people who work for a company that runs gas stations?

Yes.

 

[Nice Squirrel]

WTF people? Cities run all sorts of businesses just fine. This is what happens when you hire smart people and pay them well.

 

[ksen]

No Squirrel. It's only a matter time before the fueling death panels are brought up to speed. Then where will we be?

WHERE!? WILL!? WE!? BE!? THEN!?

 

[Bronzeage]

As I said, it's easy to piggyback off a larger organization and lose track of the expenses. Is it a significant difference? That would depend upon anyone's definition of significant. The city can use government workers to support the gas station and the cost of their time is not put against the sales of gasoline.

The cost of their time is already in the city budget.

There is certainly one expense which is significantly different. We can be certain the city gas station is not paying property taxes.

It's already not paying property taxes. So what?

- - - Updated - - -

It's always a little weird when someone concedes all my points, but still disagrees with me.

"already in the city budget," does not make it free. It is still an expense. The taxes the privately operated gas station must pay go to support their competitor, who is underselling them because payroll from the city budget is used to operate the city station.

If gas station operators have become some kind of social pariah and not subject to the protection of law the rest of us enjoy, I hadn't heard about it. Why have they been singled out? I know the city has a functioning gas station, and it was easy to open to the public, but why stop there.

I'm sure the city owns a lot of lawn mowers and weed eaters. They could do people's yards. After all, their salary is already in the budget and they can get their fuel from the city gas station. There maybe painters and carpenters on the payroll. There's no reason they couldn't remodel a kitchen for the town's people. There's no need to limit this benefit to manual trades. City clerks could run off copies of garage sale fliers for less than it costs at the local print shop.

If the city worked really hard at this program, eventually everyone could be working for the city to provide services to the city. Is there any problem with that?

 

[Nice Squirrel]

No Squirrel. It's only a matter time before the fueling death panels are brought up to speed. Then where will we be?

WHERE!? WILL!? WE!? BE!? THEN!?

I'm thinking about all the towns I've lived in with municipal store and facilities. They've been around for more than a century in the United States, and probably longer. They don't spell the death of anything. I'm not sure why this gas station is even news.

 

[ksen]

The cost of their time is already in the city budget.

There is certainly one expense which is significantly different. We can be certain the city gas station is not paying property taxes.

It's already not paying property taxes. So what?

- - - Updated - - -

It's always a little weird when someone concedes all my points, but still disagrees with me.

Well, since the point I was addressing was that opening up this already existing fueling station to the public wouldn't divert tax revenues away from other city departments then I disagree with you. All the expenses of this department have already been budgeted. There's no taking away from parks, playground, or puppy dogs to make this happen.

"already in the city budget," does not make it free. It is still an expense.

No one said any differently.

The taxes the privately operated gas station must pay go to support their competitor, who is underselling them because payroll from the city budget is used to operate the city station.

So?

If gas station operators have become some kind of social pariah and not subject to the protection of law the rest of us enjoy, I hadn't heard about it. Why have they been singled out? I know the city has a functioning gas station, and it was easy to open to the public, but why stop there.

Yes, why stop there? I agree.

I'm sure the city owns a lot of lawn mowers and weed eaters. They could do people's yards. After all, their salary is already in the budget and they can get their fuel from the city gas station. There maybe painters and carpenters on the payroll. There's no reason they couldn't remodel a kitchen for the town's people. There's no need to limit this benefit to manual trades. City clerks could run off copies of garage sale fliers for less than it costs at the local print shop.

If the city worked really hard at this program, eventually everyone could be working for the city to provide services to the city. Is there any problem with that?

Nope, that sounds great.

 

[Bronzeage]

The cost of their time is already in the city budget.

There is certainly one expense which is significantly different. We can be certain the city gas station is not paying property taxes.

It's already not paying property taxes. So what?

- - - Updated - - -

It's always a little weird when someone concedes all my points, but still disagrees with me.

Well, since the point I was addressing was that opening up this already existing fueling station to the public wouldn't divert tax revenues away from other city departments then I disagree with you. All the expenses of this department have already been budgeted. There's no taking away from parks, playground, or puppy dogs to make this happen.

"already in the city budget," does not make it free. It is still an expense.

No one said any differently.

The taxes the privately operated gas station must pay go to support their competitor, who is underselling them because payroll from the city budget is used to operate the city station.

So?

If gas station operators have become some kind of social pariah and not subject to the protection of law the rest of us enjoy, I hadn't heard about it. Why have they been singled out? I know the city has a functioning gas station, and it was easy to open to the public, but why stop there.

Yes, why stop there? I agree.

I'm sure the city owns a lot of lawn mowers and weed eaters. They could do people's yards. After all, their salary is already in the budget and they can get their fuel from the city gas station. There maybe painters and carpenters on the payroll. There's no reason they couldn't remodel a kitchen for the town's people. There's no need to limit this benefit to manual trades. City clerks could run off copies of garage sale fliers for less than it costs at the local print shop.

If the city worked really hard at this program, eventually everyone could be working for the city to provide services to the city. Is there any problem with that?

Nope, that sounds great.

It does sound great if you want to live in a city where there is basically no choice of from who you buy, or what you buy.

 

[Nice Squirrel]

If the city worked really hard at this program, eventually everyone could be working for the city to provide services to the city. Is there any problem with that?

Nope, that sounds great.

We'd still need the Chinese to make our Obama Phones.