Muslim flight attendant suspended for refusing to serve alcohol

[Derec]

Anyone else amused by how hard Max and Derec tried to set up those "liberal" strawmen only to have the actual comments by actual TFT members show how foolish those strawmen were?

Hardly a strawman as David Pakman, the lefty talk show host from the OP was supportive of her as were Arctish and Ford.
Besides, the progressive and feminist movements from the turn of the 20th century were quite opposed to alcohol, so there is some illiberal history there.

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If a person boarded a busy flight and did not receive alcohol then the airline broke its contract to that degree. So that would still have been a violation of their civil right as a consumer.

Not in the USA. Consumers do not have civil rights - people have civil rights.

"They were not people officer, they were consumers"?

 

[Tammuz]

As for employees, there was some talk of making reasonable accommodations for religious beliefs, but we didn't really discuss it, so we have no consensus on what they might be or how far they should go.

Can vegetarians who work in restaurants refuse to serve meat?

If serving alcohol is part of the job, then she has to do so as long as she works there. She is not being forced to drink herself.

 

[laughing dog]

"They were not people officer, they were consumers"?

Please show where consumers have civil rights as consumers. They do not - people have civil rights as people. Really, this isn't hard if one actually can think.

 

[Metaphor]

She was on The View.

In the clip, she specifically rejects the idea of being assigned another job with the same company.

She says she shouldn't have to choose between 'earning a living' and 'practising her religion properly'.

Newsflash Stanley: you can have both. Get any one of a million jobs that doesn't involve serving customers alcoholic drinks.

 

[RavenSky]

Hardly a strawman as David Pakman, the lefty talk show host from the OP was supportive of her as were Arctish and Ford.

I don't give a flying fuck what some never-heard-of-before "talk show host" you've labeled a "lefty" says, but let's take a look at what Arctish and Ford said in this thread:

Odd, I thought in the thread on Kim Davis we all agreed that if she won't do her job, she ought to be fired.

We agreed that elected officials who fail to fulfill their duties and honor their Oath of Office ought to be impeached or forced out.

As for employees, there was some talk of making reasonable accommodations for religious beliefs, but we didn't really discuss it, so we have no consensus on what they might be or how far they should go.

Odd, I thought in the thread on Kim Davis we all agreed that if she won't do her job, she ought to be fired.

You might have a point if the flight attendant in question didn't just refuse to serve alcohol herself, but also demanded that no alcohol be served on any flight she was working.

If serving alcohol is a normal and known duty for a flight attendant on that airline, then she should either be fired or transferred to a position where alcohol is not served (perhaps short flights).

I was thinking the same thing.

If she can't do the in-flight job, perhaps she could be offered a lateral transfer to another job that doesn't require the serving of alcohol.

Nope... their comments don't support your strawman at all. Do try to stop arguing when people are actually more or less agreeing with you for a change

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She was on The View.

In the clip, she specifically rejects the idea of being assigned another job with the same company.

She says she shouldn't have to choose between 'earning a living' and 'practising her religion properly'.

Newsflash Stanley: you can have both. Get any one of a million jobs that doesn't involve serving customers alcoholic drinks.

Bingo!

 

[AthenaAwakened]

She was on The View.

In the clip, she specifically rejects the idea of being assigned another job with the same company.

She says she shouldn't have to choose between 'earning a living' and 'practising her religion properly'.

Newsflash Stanley: you can have both. Get any one of a million jobs that doesn't involve serving customers alcoholic drinks.

Well then, I would say she doesn't want to work for this company and she should seek employment elsewhere.

 

[AthenaAwakened]

I watched the clip from The View.

She seems like a very nice person and I am sure she is a very good flight attendant.

But she took this job BEFORE she became a Muslim, and she served drinks. And after her conversion, she still for a time served drinks. Serving drinks as a part of her job is not something new to her. Her religion is. So new in fact that she didn't find out about the prohibition for serving alcohol until sometime after her conversion, which seem like she dropped the ball there, but whatever.

I have no problem with businesses and employees accommodating religion practices, but she is making changes in her life and she wants everybody else to make those changes with her. And she keeps discovering more changes to make. What if later on she discovers that she should not be in a room where alcohol is consumed? Then do the passengers have to stop drinking?

This thing just doesn't feel right, doesn't feel right at all.

 

[Horatio Parker]

I watched the clip from The View.

She seems like a very nice person and I am sure she is a very good flight attendant.

But she took this job BEFORE she became a Muslim, and she served drinks. And after her conversion, she still for a time served drinks. Serving drinks as a part of her job is not something new to her. Her religion is. So new in fact that she didn't find out about the prohibition for serving alcohol until sometime after her conversion, which seem like she dropped the ball there, but whatever.

I have no problem with businesses and employees accommodating religion practices, but she is making changes in her life and she wants everybody else to make those changes with her. And she keeps discovering more changes to make. What if later on she discovers that she should not be in a room where alcohol is consumed? Then do the passengers have to stop drinking?

This thing just doesn't feel right, doesn't feel right at all.

I've heard that religious converts, particularly those with serious background problems such as addiction, are the most zealous.

I played a few gigs with a Muslim convert, and he was wrestling with the issue of playing venues that served alcohol. Seemed extreme to me considering that he largely made his living that way.

 

[whichphilosophy]

Hardly a strawman as David Pakman, the lefty talk show host from the OP was supportive of her as were Arctish and Ford.
Besides, the progressive and feminist movements from the turn of the 20th century were quite opposed to alcohol, so there is some illiberal history there.

- - - Updated - - -

If a person boarded a busy flight and did not receive alcohol then the airline broke its contract to that degree. So that would still have been a violation of their civil right as a consumer.

Not in the USA. Consumers do not have civil rights - people have civil rights.

"They were not people officer, they were consumers"?

A consumer is a person by definition. a person who uses a service or something of value e.g. drinks.

 

[whichphilosophy]

I watched the clip from The View.

She seems like a very nice person and I am sure she is a very good flight attendant.

But she took this job BEFORE she became a Muslim, and she served drinks. And after her conversion, she still for a time served drinks. Serving drinks as a part of her job is not something new to her. Her religion is. So new in fact that she didn't find out about the prohibition for serving alcohol until sometime after her conversion, which seem like she dropped the ball there, but whatever.

I have no problem with businesses and employees accommodating religion practices, but she is making changes in her life and she wants everybody else to make those changes with her. And she keeps discovering more changes to make. What if later on she discovers that she should not be in a room where alcohol is consumed? Then do the passengers have to stop drinking?

This thing just doesn't feel right, doesn't feel right at all.

Most Arab airlines serve alcohol with the exception of

Saudi Arabian Airlines
Iran Air
Pakistan International Airlines
Kuwait Airlines
Eqyptair They can bring their own alcohol and ask for it to be served.
Royal Brunei Airlines but they can bring their own and ask for it to be served.

She can apply to one of those airlines

I think she is also very wrong as to what here responsibility as air cabin crew though safety is a key issue
http://www.prospects.ac.uk/air_cabin_crew_job_description.htm
Air cabin crew:
Job description



The role of an air cabin crew member is to provide excellent customer service to passengers while ensuring their comfort and safety throughout the flight. They are trained to deal with security and emergency situations which may arise and can administer first aid to passengers.

Cabin crew ensure that all emergency equipment is in working order prior to take off and that there are enough supplies. They also help passengers to board the plane and give a demonstration of safety procedures and equipment.

Air cabin crew strive to make the flying experience a pleasant one for the passengers and will serve refreshments and meals and sell gifts and duty-free items. Cabin crew may work on short or long-haul flights.

 

[ZiprHead]

So new in fact that she didn't find out about the prohibition for serving alcohol until sometime after her conversion, which seem like she dropped the ball there, but whatever.

Just curious. Is there a prohibition on serving alcohol or just consuming?

 

[Ford]

Hardly a strawman as David Pakman, the lefty talk show host from the OP was supportive of her as were Arctish and Ford.

For the record, I was not "supportive of her." I was pointing out that that max was making an inaccurate comparison of the two situations.

The flight attendant was refusing to be the one serving alcohol, not demanding that no alcohol be served on her flights. Kim Davis was refusing to allow anyone in her office to issue licenses.

Just so we're clear, I don't support people refusing to do their jobs because of a sudden outbreak of religious conviction. If you can't carry out duties you've carried out before you found Jesus/Allah/L. Ron Hubbard, then you should find another job.

 

[whichphilosophy]

Hardly a strawman as David Pakman, the lefty talk show host from the OP was supportive of her as were Arctish and Ford.

For the record, I was not "supportive of her." I was pointing out that that max was making an inaccurate comparison of the two situations.

The flight attendant was refusing to be the one serving alcohol, not demanding that no alcohol be served on her flights. Kim Davis was refusing to allow anyone in her office to issue licenses.

Just so we're clear, I don't support people refusing to do their jobs because of a sudden outbreak of religious conviction. If you can't carry out duties you've carried out before you found Jesus/Allah/L. Ron Hubbard, then you should find another job.

Jesus served wine. Isn't he supposed to have turned water into wine.

 

[abaddon]

Jesus served wine. Isn't he supposed to have turned water into wine.

Not on an Air Arabia flight he didn’t. But I’d respect anyone who did.

 

[AthenaAwakened]

So new in fact that she didn't find out about the prohibition for serving alcohol until sometime after her conversion, which seem like she dropped the ball there, but whatever.

Just curious. Is there a prohibition on serving alcohol or just consuming?

This is the first I ever heard that you can't serve alcohol. I have an acquaintance, nice guy from Afghanistan and he is Muslim. He owns two convenience stores and he sells beer and wine in both.

So I don't know. But I do know that like with any religion, there are liberal, moderate and conservative sects. Maybe she's conservative. I don't know.

 

[fast]

Odd, I thought in the thread on Kim Davis we all agreed that if she won't do her job, she ought to be fired.

We agreed that elected officials who fail to fulfill their duties and honor their Oath of Office ought to be impeached or forced out.

As I recall, there was the wording, "in good conscious", but no exceptions were discussed regarding morally unconscionable behavior. Wouldn't a parallel example with such conditions invoke a variant response from the left such that right and wrong trumps what's legal and not?

 

[Ford]

Just curious. Is there a prohibition on serving alcohol or just consuming?

This is the first I ever heard that you can't serve alcohol. I have an acquaintance, nice guy from Afghanistan and he is Muslim. He owns two convenience stores and he sells beer and wine in both.

A few years back I was looking into a trip to Dubai, and my buddy who'd been there before (Navy guy) was like "ooh, you'll have a blast!" and starts recommending bars I should check out.

Of course maybe they hire non-Muslims to serve the drinks?

 

[ZiprHead]

Just curious. Is there a prohibition on serving alcohol or just consuming?

This is the first I ever heard that you can't serve alcohol. I have an acquaintance, nice guy from Afghanistan and he is Muslim. He owns two convenience stores and he sells beer and wine in both.

So I don't know. But I do know that like with any religion, there are liberal, moderate and conservative sects. Maybe she's conservative. I don't know.

Half the C-stores around here are owned by middle-easterners whom I assume many are Muslim. They all sell alcohol, including hard liquor.

 

[J842P]

Just curious. Is there a prohibition on serving alcohol or just consuming?

This is the first I ever heard that you can't serve alcohol. I have an acquaintance, nice guy from Afghanistan and he is Muslim. He owns two convenience stores and he sells beer and wine in both.

So I don't know. But I do know that like with any religion, there are liberal, moderate and conservative sects. Maybe she's conservative. I don't know.

Islam doesn't really have a central authority so on things that aren't explicitly in the Koran, which I am unsure of with regards to serving alcohol, you'll get different scholars with different opinions (fatwahs).

 

[whichphilosophy]

Jesus served wine. Isn't he supposed to have turned water into wine.

Not on an Air Arabia flight he didn’t. But I’d respect anyone who did.

A lot of Arabic owned airlines serve alcohol. Few don't per my earlier posts.