NC dad fatally shot during struggle for Taser with Harnett Co. deputy, witness says

[JonA]

And what are those times? Are they when the homeowner informs you that he's aware of his legal rights and closes the door, or is some higher level of special circumstances required?

When someone's safety or life is in immediate danger might be one; or a suspect in a crime is fleeing and immediate action is required to prevent their flight and future apprehension might be another.

But I don't know all of them. And I'm sure lists are available.

Let's start our discussion with: why was the cop there?

 

[Tom Sawyer]

And what are those times? Are they when the homeowner informs you that he's aware of his legal rights and closes the door, or is some higher level of special circumstances required?

When someone's safety or life is in immediate danger might be one; or a suspect in a crime is fleeing and immediate action is required to prevent their flight and future apprehension might be another.

But I don't know all of them. And I'm sure lists are available.

Let's start our discussion with: why was the cop there?

To ask some questions of a guy whom they thought lived there. There was no indication that the person they were looking for was in the residence and no arrest warrant issued for him which would have required exceptional actions on the part of the police. What was in the residence was a guy who got lippy with them and who pretended that he had rights in his own home.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Only a jerk would get lippy being woken up in the middle of the night by police looking for a person at their place that wasn't even there.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Trying to take the taser is fighting.

While the intent was probably defensive the cops would have no way of knowing what would happen if he actually got his hand on the taser.

I also can't see felony murder here although I could go for manslaughter.

Why would it matter if he were fighting? From a legal point of view, I mean. I get it from the "We should be passive sheep who should cowtow to any demands from authority figures because we're useless cowards" point of view.

His actions posed a threat to the cops.

If somebody enters your house illegally and assaults you, is there a legal problem with your fighting back against him? I do not think that there is, so the question of whether he was fighting or not fighting is a moot one. If someone commits msnslaughter during the commission of a felony, North Carolina treats it as felony murder. Illegally breaking into someone's house is a felony and the manslaughter which occurred during this crime falls under that law.

In most states at least you are not supposed to resist illegal arrests & searches even if they are obviously illegal. You go along and let the courts sort it out.

 

[Toni]

Why would it matter if he were fighting? From a legal point of view, I mean. I get it from the "We should be passive sheep who should cowtow to any demands from authority figures because we're useless cowards" point of view.

His actions posed a threat to the cops.

If somebody enters your house illegally and assaults you, is there a legal problem with your fighting back against him? I do not think that there is, so the question of whether he was fighting or not fighting is a moot one. If someone commits msnslaughter during the commission of a felony, North Carolina treats it as felony murder. Illegally breaking into someone's house is a felony and the manslaughter which occurred during this crime falls under that law.

In most states at least you are not supposed to resist illegal arrests & searches even if they are obviously illegal. You go along and let the courts sort it out.

I'm not sure that extends to allowing yourself to be assaulted by police officers.

 

[laughing dog]

His actions posed a threat to the cops.

If somebody enters your house illegally and assaults you, is there a legal problem with your fighting back against him? I do not think that there is, so the question of whether he was fighting or not fighting is a moot one. If someone commits msnslaughter during the commission of a felony, North Carolina treats it as felony murder. Illegally breaking into someone's house is a felony and the manslaughter which occurred during this crime falls under that law.

In most states at least you are not supposed to resist illegal arrests & searches even if they are obviously illegal. You go along and let the courts sort it out.

I'm not sure that extends to allowing yourself to be assaulted by police officers.

Some day, people will wake up and use the successful MO of the police: kill the only witnesses.

 

[ksen]

His actions posed a threat to the cops.

So? Under North Carolina's Castle Doctrine he had every right to pose a threat to the cops since they were trying to enter his home illegally and he felt they were trying to do him harm.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

His actions posed a threat to the cops.

So? Under North Carolina's Castle Doctrine he had every right to pose a threat to the cops since they were trying to enter his home illegally and he felt they were trying to do him harm.

Which is the key distinction in this case. This wasn't a case of some cops trying to rough him up on the street. This was a case of people entering his home illegally and he has a right to defend his property against that. The fact that the people illegally entering his home happened to be employed by the police department doesn't take away his property rights since there are limitations on when the authorities are allowed to do that and none of those applied here.

When somebody breaks into your home, you have no legal obligation to submit to whatever they want you to submit to and then take it up with the courts later. You can defend your property. He was acting within his legal rights and the cops were not acting within their legal rights. It doesn't matter if this was an intelligent or logical response on his part - all that matters is that it was a legal response. The fact that the cops' illegal actions caused him to pose a threat to them and led to his death puts his death under the felony murder rules.

 

[fast]

The affidavit is available

 

[bleubird]

Why would it matter if he were fighting? From a legal point of view, I mean. I get it from the "We should be passive sheep who should cowtow to any demands from authority figures because we're useless cowards" point of view.

His actions posed a threat to the cops.

If somebody enters your house illegally and assaults you, is there a legal problem with your fighting back against him? I do not think that there is, so the question of whether he was fighting or not fighting is a moot one. If someone commits msnslaughter during the commission of a felony, North Carolina treats it as felony murder. Illegally breaking into someone's house is a felony and the manslaughter which occurred during this crime falls under that law.

In most states at least you are not supposed to resist illegal arrests & searches even if they are obviously illegal. You go along and let the courts sort it out.

Site support for this.Most states.At least.Loren the IT lawyer,says so!

 

[Loren Pechtel]

His actions posed a threat to the cops.

So? Under North Carolina's Castle Doctrine he had every right to pose a threat to the cops since they were trying to enter his home illegally and he felt they were trying to do him harm.

Enter illegally, I'll agree. Trying to harm him--did that state exist until he resisted?

 

[bilby]

So? Under North Carolina's Castle Doctrine he had every right to pose a threat to the cops since they were trying to enter his home illegally and he felt they were trying to do him harm.

Enter illegally, I'll agree. Trying to harm him--did that state exist until he resisted?

If someone forcibly enters your home at 3.30am without your permission, it seems reasonable to assume that they are not there to vacuum your carpets for you. The law recognises this; and makes no exceptions for police officers who are not performing their lawful duties. A police officer who exceeds his lawful authority is just an armed thug who happens to be wearing a uniform.

If you were confronted by an armed thug breaking into your home at 3.30am, would you allow them to do as they pleased, until and unless they physically assaulted you first?

 

[abaddon]

So? Under North Carolina's Castle Doctrine he had every right to pose a threat to the cops since they were trying to enter his home illegally and he felt they were trying to do him harm.

Enter illegally, I'll agree. Trying to harm him--did that state exist until he resisted?

The gist of the Castle Doctrine is it's presumed that harm is intended.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

So? Under North Carolina's Castle Doctrine he had every right to pose a threat to the cops since they were trying to enter his home illegally and he felt they were trying to do him harm.

Enter illegally, I'll agree. Trying to harm him--did that state exist until he resisted?

Why do you care? If I break into a store and an employee attacks me and I kill him to defend myself, I am guilty of felony murder because a man died as a result of my committing the crime.

If you agree that the cop was entering illegally, then the death which occurred as a result of his committing that crime makes him guilty of felony murder. The details of the fight aren't relevant. The only thing that matters is that the fight which killed the man happened during the commission of a felony. The is especially true when its they man's home in a place with castle doctrine laws.

 

[ksen]

So? Under North Carolina's Castle Doctrine he had every right to pose a threat to the cops since they were trying to enter his home illegally and he felt they were trying to do him harm.

Enter illegally, I'll agree. Trying to harm him--did that state exist until he resisted?

Yes.