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Need anti-inerrancy resources help

I am now up to part 7 of this series with Israel Finkelstein. For those who want the latest and greatest news from archaeology and the Bible. This is a truly good resource from one of the most knowlegable archaeologists in the world.

Brian63, if you have not yet viewed any of this, you should. This will be the fastest way to get up to speed on any of this. It will not make you a seasoned expert, but it will help you in not making foolish claims.

And this series is a good resource for name dropping.
 
It seems there is a perpetual misunderstanding in this thread about how I would use such books, essays, podcasts, videos, etc.

Let this be perfectly clear:

I will not be getting into the details of any archaeological debates. Those are not the claims I will be making or disputing.

What I will be using these resources for is *GIVING EXAMPLES* of contrary materials. It is not necessary for me to have read them, understand, agree or disagree with them. The fact that they exist is enough. My use for them is to ask more general questions such as whether the group leaders or potential group members should even be willing to read from a wide variety of views, rather than the single view that the group leaders will espouse. That is it. That is all.

The only purpose for asking for authors and books is to give examples of such. It would be more helpful to have examples than to not have them. For all I know these contrary materials are overall flawed. But people can still learn and become more intelligent by reading what are flawed materials. It helps identify and minimize our biases, for instance. It enhances our critical thinking skills and learning how to apply logic. It is a test of our willpower.

For everyone reading: Do you only get your information from sources that you already agree with? Do you think you should? That others should? Or should we try to get our info from a diversity of viewpoints and simultaneously enhance our critical thinking skills in other ways to learn which resources are more or less credible?

I am in favor of the latter approach. I have had many discussions with fundamentalist Christians about philosophical problems with prophecies and how to evaluate them. What I do not get into is citing of specific chapter/verses, because I do not know or care about them. The general problems override those specific instances they perceive as evidence. But my case is augmented by making these additional points---that other contrary scholarly views exist and that it is better to read from a variety than a narrow selection, if you are going to read any at all.
 
Brian63 said:
What I will be using these resources for is *GIVING EXAMPLES* of contrary materials. It is not necessary for me to have read them, understand, agree or disagree with them. The fact that they exist is enough. My use for them is to ask more general questions such as whether the group leaders or potential group members should even be willing to read from a wide variety of views, rather than the single view that the group leaders will espouse. That is it. That is all.
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Why should they take your reading advice, when even you don't want to read the things you're recommending?

You also "don't know or care" about A.) the topic of the seminar you're attending, presumably biblical prophecies B.) the main source you know they are likely to cite, preumably the Bible. This is at best rude, and certainly doesn't demonstrate your superior capacity for considering unfamiliar viewpoints. I would not attend a seminar on a book without first reading the book, no. And I certainly recommend more books to others that I have not read and have no interest in. That's incredibly dishonest. And when they shut you down, will you take this as evidence of their close-mindedness, rather than your own obvious discourtesy?
 
Brian63 said:
Your attempted trolling will not work here.
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You know, I had decided that I would no longer participate in this discussion as it appeared to be a fruitless effort. But the thing is - @Politesse is right.

You cannot possibly be serious about your attempts to talk to these people if you don't even have any knowledge of what they are using for their basis of discussion. I don't know of any Christian who is going to seriously listen to someone who says that they know nothing about the Bible nor do they have any intention of learning about it. Plus, when someone recommends reading material to me the first thing I ask is "Can you tell me what you like about it?" If they can't provide an answer, I no longer have any interest in hearing anything else they have to say.

Mind you, I am not saying that you are being untruthful about your positions regarding helping others. What I am saying is that you are wasting your time if you don't at least read their source material and the source material you are recommending.

Ruth
 
If you go there only with a list of books you cannot say you have read, but only have a list of books you got from a fellow atheist on a forum, you will get blown off as a typical, know it all, ignorant atheist. If you insist, good luck.

I strongly suggest listening to the first six lecture of Finkelstein's series and lecture # 20. If somebody asks for an example from these archaeologists that means they should care, you will be like a guppy in a tank of piranahs if you can't produce.
 
Folks, I have had these discussions many times. They do not play out the way you are imagining. I have had philosophical discussions about the general nature of prophecies online for a couple decades, on other social media, and in real-life. They have been more productive than you realize. If you think they are doomed to fail, that represents a mistake in your own specific thinking rather than an inherent problem in the overall approach. It is possible and has been achieved.

I have had discussions about the historicity of parts of the bible. I explain that it is a subject that I do not know details of, but I do give my honest opinion which is based on a broader philosophical approach. That is an aspect that they often do not consider. Conducting these conversations well is possible. There are a lot of logical errors being committed by detractors and that is contributing to misunderstandings.
 
Did I ever indicate I was? No.
Did I ever believe I was? No.

Instead I pointed out that I have been. Probably differently than the ways others of you have. Hopefully you have had success with your approaches. I have had it with mine too.
 
I have an idea.

We will watch the debate and post replies for you. You can watch the thread on glasses that project video in your eye.

I grew up watching Mission Impossible on TV. The fate of the free world depends on your defeatingteise theists.

If you accept the mission should you be caprured we will disavow any knowledeg of your existence. Good luck Brian.

Key Mission Impossible theme song.
 
You are always full of fantastic insights and ideas, steve. In the future may we all learn as much as you have from your vast stores of intellect, knowledge, and wisdom.
 
Brian63 said:
You are always full of fantastic insights and ideas, steve. In the future may we all learn as much as you have from your vast stores of intellect, knowledge, and wisdom.
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Sorry my friend, I am immune to bullshit.

Learning requires letting go of your own preconceptions and rubbing elbows with people outside your intellectual bubble. In can be scary to let go an at east temporarily consider the other side may be right or at least valid points. I learned that as an engineer through hard knocks.

I heard it said genius is the ability to temporarily consider two opposing things to be true. Or seeing both sides.

It took a while to understand what I was being criticized for.

There is nothing profound in that. A theme that appears in lterature and movies un differnt forms.

I am not anti religion. We have freedom of belief and expression for all or we don't have it at all. I can relate to why people have religion even though I am atheist.

If somebody says god bless you I take in the spirit given and I don't get bent out of shape as some atheists might.

I can respect religious beliefs whie at the same tmie dbate issues with religion. Obviously there are Chrtians who do not repect anything else, but that is how i see it. I can not carry hate or bias.
 
Well done, steve. I have learned much from you and aspire to hold even a fraction of the well-grounded wisdom that you possess. You have not missed anything at all in this entire discussion. There is complete disagreement that you are immune to bullshit. Every view you espouse is completely sound. Perfect logic and thinking throughout.
 
Years debate on the forum was an education. Differernt views from both theists and atheists. I learned from all of it.
 
Clearly. Your skills in logic are exemplary.
 
Brian63 said:
Clearly. Your skills in logic are exemplary.
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Ok, what's the catch?

I am logical and cynical both.

To give you context my logic skills are pretty routine among the people I worked with. Nothing out of the ordinary.
 
Let modesty be added to your attributes.
 
steve_bank said:
Ok, what's the catch?
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He thinks his satirical skills are equivalent to the logic skills he is supposedly attributing to you.

Quite frankly, they are not. It is just tiresome for those of us who are reasonable adults.

Ruth
 
If he was a reasonable adult, why would he need someone to explain it to him? Something is wrong with your hypothesis. Unsure what.
 
TomC said:
Brian63 said:
Please do not derail this thread.

This thread is for accumulating a list of counter-views to research further. That is all.

Thank you.
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Sorry to upset you.
Tom
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The OP wishes to attend Christian events where he might not be welcome to enlighten said Christians about allegedly "unexpected" views that they may not be familiar with, but will not tolerate even a smidgen of discussion about the utility and efficacy of "cramming" on a subject that he is not knowledge in to prepare for such an encounter. The fucking irony!!
 
Brian63 said:
Please do not derail this thread.

This thread is for accumulating a list of counter-views to research further. That is all.

Thank you.
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If you cannot tolerate the opinions of others when asking for help, go do your homework on your own. We are not your servants, and you do not control what others might have to say on the subject.
 
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