Arctish
Centimillionaire
The truth is the truth. It is unfair to simply say everything is bad in Cuba. Literacy rates went up after Castro came into power,
I don't know about you but I prefer honest commentary over PC blather.
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The truth is the truth. It is unfair to simply say everything is bad in Cuba. Literacy rates went up after Castro came into power,
I don't know about you but I prefer honest commentary over PC blather.
Oh, please, keep up the praise. I encourage it. Especially in South Florida.
Derec
Contributor
Mussolini made the trains run on time (tbh, who else could in a place like Italy?) and Hitler built the Autobahn and the original VW Käfer (Beetle).
Doesn't mean they need to be praised for it.
Derec
Contributor
Arctish
Centimillionaire
Are you two actually pointing out truths as a way to discourage people from acknowledging truths?
Or are you attempting a Godwin by equating a famous Communist with the two most well known Right wing fascists in world history, and then bringing up Werhner von Braun for some reason that has nothing to do with Castro?
Not everything in Cuba is bad. If you think it is, you obviously haven't looked into the matter yourselves. If you already know that not everything is bad but you're going to spout knee-jerk bullshit anyway, your comments are valueless. I prefer honest commentary over propaganda and recitations of dogma, too.
And just so you know, I memorized nearly every Tom Lehrer song back in my college days. I never quite got the The Elements down pat, but I used to sing Poisoning Pigeons in the Park whenever it was my turn to cook dinner.
[YOUTUBE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yhuMLpdnOjY[/YOUTUBE]
Or are you attempting a Godwin by equating a famous Communist with the two most well known Right wing fascists in world history, and then bringing up Werhner von Braun for some reason that has nothing to do with Castro?
Not everything in Cuba is bad. If you think it is, you obviously haven't looked into the matter yourselves. If you already know that not everything is bad but you're going to spout knee-jerk bullshit anyway, your comments are valueless. I prefer honest commentary over propaganda and recitations of dogma, too.
And just so you know, I memorized nearly every Tom Lehrer song back in my college days. I never quite got the The Elements down pat, but I used to sing Poisoning Pigeons in the Park whenever it was my turn to cook dinner.
[YOUTUBE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yhuMLpdnOjY[/YOUTUBE]
Again, I encourage you to promote how wonderful things are in Cuba. Keep it up to November. Thanks!
Arctish
Centimillionaire
Not everything is bad in Cuba ≠ things are wonderful in Cuba.
I know what you're doing. You are twisting Sanders' words into a strawman version so you can attack him for saying something he didn't actually say. It's utterly dishonest. It's 'Swift Boat Veterans for a Version of the Story that No One Who Saw What Actually Happened Would Call Truth' updated for the 2020 election.
I expect more of it, and worse, before the election's over.
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Don2 (Don1 Revised)
Contributor
Let me restate this:
1. We need a radically different environmental policy. It's more critical than anything else. Survival of the species and planet is the highest order of everything. It trumps politics. If we don't exist, politics is meaningless.
2. We are hearing that Bernie isn't going to beat Trump because he's a socialist and the media is going to go nuts. I agree, but I am adding no one is going to beat Trump. I will stand by this prediction and if I am wrong anyone can call me on it after the election is over.
I am not advocating voting for Trump at all or asking him to support a Green New Deal. That would be illogical. Basically, we need a Democrat to support a Green New Deal. I'd be willing to go to the voting booth, vote for Bloomberg and throw up in my mouth by doing so if he supported a radical environmental policy to stop the planet from warming, but he doesn't and wouldn't. At the same time, I think we're fucked, because neither Bernie nor anyone else can win. I don't think any candidate can stand against the right-wing monstrosity of established powers.
Elixir
Made in America
Very likely it will be up to US Marshals and USSS to uphold the election results, and forcibly override Trump, Barr and McConnell who are not going to submit to the will of the public. They never have yet, and there's no reason to think that a little thing like an election is going to stand in the way of their Junta.
thebeave
Contributor
I think you're kind of missing their point. The way things are these days, if you make any kind of praise, however benign, to a despot it essentially means you support everything about that person, and the posters in this thread are merely pointing that out. I could say I really like Hitler's watercolor drawings, and a good chunk of people hearing that would disown me and say I support the killing of Jews (seriously). Try it yourself. Go to an anti-Trump leftie rally and say to a group of protesters that you admire Trump for passing the criminal reform bill. Or passing laws helpful to veterans. You'd be lucky to get out of there without being labeled a right wing, white supremeicist yourself. Its the same situation with Bernie indicating something he likes about the Castro regime. The voters are going to go into torch and pitchfork mode.
Elixir
Made in America
I'm sure you won't be disappointed - the "I'm not a trumpsuckers" here offer a virtually unlimited supply of dishonest distortions.
Don2 (Don1 Revised)
Contributor
1. Cubans in Miami and other Cubans who left Cuba are generally right-wing. They are non-representative of the whole country, slightly to the right of our average. 2. Various media outlets are quote-mining him. What he actually said is not different from President Obama.* 3. Our situation right now is that corporations have created and magnified echo chambers to sell media brands and the corporate media establishes relations with powerful politicians to use them for quotes constantly and the politicians like it. Bernie is not inside that system benefiting from it.
So, overall, we are hearing a product of this mess and not seeing past it. Or at least, some of us aren't.
*
https://obamawhitehouse.archives.go...a-and-president-raul-castro-cuba-joint-pressPresident Obama said:
Elixir
Made in America
So Trump supports imprisoning, torturing and killing anyone who criticizes him. Thanks for making that clear. I guess he also supports starving a huge percentage of those citizens who escape imprisonment.
Love letters are SO revealing.
thebeave
Contributor
Don't you think you're being just a teeny bit hyperbolic?
PyramidHead
Contributor
The resurgence of socialism-lite as a political faction in America is carrying with it a contingent of actual communists, who either critically support Bernie Sanders or don't support any candidate. For us, it is unproblematic for Bernie to praise Castro because we know Castro was a great leader and a hero, though not without flaws like any human being. We know the same is true about V.I. Lenin, Josef Stalin, Mao Zedong, Kim Jong-Il, Thomas Sankara, Che Guevara, Enver Hoxha, Hugo Chavez, and Salvador Allende, among others. All were vastly more compassionate, courageous, and committed to building a just world than any American president. To acknowledge this is to acknowledge that for all of your life, you have been relentlessly lied to about every one of these people, for reasons that are as obvious as they are tragic when you understand how capitalism sustains itself.
We wish Bernie was as cool as his critics are making him out to be. We wish he had visited the USSR in the 50's rather than in the midst of its implosion back into capitalism. We want a President who doesn't feel the need to lie about China and Venezuela. We will have to wait. But for now, we're voting for Bernie, and there are more of us than you probably think, especially among the youngest generation of voters, who have the benefit of the internet to counter what remains of the Cold War propaganda permanently installed in the brains of their parents.
We wish Bernie was as cool as his critics are making him out to be. We wish he had visited the USSR in the 50's rather than in the midst of its implosion back into capitalism. We want a President who doesn't feel the need to lie about China and Venezuela. We will have to wait. But for now, we're voting for Bernie, and there are more of us than you probably think, especially among the youngest generation of voters, who have the benefit of the internet to counter what remains of the Cold War propaganda permanently installed in the brains of their parents.
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"not without flaws"
Really?
Really?
You're just fuckin' with us now, aren't you.
PyramidHead
Contributor
I have been making a conscious effort to be more patient with people who respond like you do, because the lies about the historical legacy of socialism are ubiquitous and so ingrained in our culture by this point that it's silly to expect a different reaction. However, I will not be swayed by them, and will only emphatically repeat: no, I am not fucking with you, and if you're genuinely curious about that, I would be glad to help you learn more.
I live in Florida, in the swing part of this swing state, and it seems to have trended a little more Red this past decade. Republicans have an iron grip on the state aparatus, and we now have 2 Republican senators, including former Governor and medicare fraudster Rick Scott. I would have made Trump a slight favorite to retain Florida against whomever, even before this Cuba nonsense bubbled up, with whatever help he needed from Tallahasse in terms of voter roll purges and barriers to voter registration and ex-felons voting.
The Dems path to the White House in 2020 may not run through the Sunshine State ... they'll likely need to put Texas in play and work like the devil in Michigan, Wisconsin and Penn. There's just too many octogenarians here on Medicare who will show up to defeat the candidate promising socialized healthcare reform.
The Dems path to the White House in 2020 may not run through the Sunshine State ... they'll likely need to put Texas in play and work like the devil in Michigan, Wisconsin and Penn. There's just too many octogenarians here on Medicare who will show up to defeat the candidate promising socialized healthcare reform.
Elixir
Made in America
While Trump's budgets include radical cuts to Medicare - the very social program that takes care of them? I used to live in red FL decades ago (Naples)... as I recall it wasn't quite THAT stupid back then.