New "don't say gay" bill in Florida

[TomC]

Parents send their children to school for an education, not for the teacher push to a sexual agenda. That’s not the role of teachers.

You're the one trying to push an agenda.

I've got a clearly lesbian SIL but so in the closest about it I doubt she has ever admitted it to herself, let alone anyone else. Does that repression help anyone?

I know nothing about your SIL, but I can totally empathize. I spent my life, from roughly puberty to my mid 20s, in a closet built like a bomb shelter. I learned to hide myself and lie, especially to myself. It's a really unhealthy development process.
Tom

The continuous self-monitoring makes a person paranoid.

Funny how that works. I know that happens often. I kinda went the opposite.

I developed emotional rhino hide. I have to work at noticing, much less caring about, other people's feelings or thoughts. My partner is very attuned to the people around him. I'm painfully not. I think I was inclined to be solitary, he was inclined to be social, and our life experiences made things more so.
Tom

 

[Jarhyn]

Parents send their children to school for an education, not for the teacher push to a sexual agenda. That’s not the role of teachers.

You're the one trying to push an agenda.

I've got a clearly lesbian SIL but so in the closest about it I doubt she has ever admitted it to herself, let alone anyone else. Does that repression help anyone?

I know nothing about your SIL, but I can totally empathize. I spent my life, from roughly puberty to my mid 20s, in a closet built like a bomb shelter. I learned to hide myself and lie, especially to myself. It's a really unhealthy development process.
Tom

The continuous self-monitoring makes a person paranoid.

Funny how that works. I know that happens often. I kinda went the opposite.

I developed emotional rhino hide. I have to work at noticing, much less caring about, other people's feelings or thoughts. My partner is very attuned to the people around him. I'm painfully not. I think I was inclined to be solitary, he was inclined to be social, and our life experiences made things more so.
Tom

It takes a lot of ablation to scrub that hide off, and even more care is necessary if one is to keep it from regrowing. Still, it helps to remember how to put it up again.

It's kind of like the difference between having armor and having a good shield.

I can absolutely shield myself from bad faith "pity me" bullshit while I look at and help those whose circumstances are actually to blame. It exists in my own family and is bringing consequences with it. They are consequences I kept a shield for.

It takes work and a lot of crying but it's worth it.

 

[SigmatheZeta]

Parents send their children to school for an education, not for the teacher push to a sexual agenda. That’s not the role of teachers.

You're the one trying to push an agenda.

I've got a clearly lesbian SIL but so in the closest about it I doubt she has ever admitted it to herself, let alone anyone else. Does that repression help anyone?

I know nothing about your SIL, but I can totally empathize. I spent my life, from roughly puberty to my mid 20s, in a closet built like a bomb shelter. I learned to hide myself and lie, especially to myself. It's a really unhealthy development process.
Tom

The continuous self-monitoring makes a person paranoid.

Funny how that works. I know that happens often. I kinda went the opposite.

I developed emotional rhino hide. I have to work at noticing, much less caring about, other people's feelings or thoughts. My partner is very attuned to the people around him. I'm painfully not. I think I was inclined to be solitary, he was inclined to be social, and our life experiences made things more so.
Tom

While I was closeted, I was very drawn-in and asocial, actually, but that was almost entirely due to the self-monitoring problem. When I was alone, it wasn't a problem. When I was on the Internet in places where being queer was embraced (in the 1990's, over 14.4 kbps dial-up Internet), it wasn't a problem.

Coming out was a game-changer, though. It turns out that I really have a highly energetic personality type. Temperamentally, I am somewhere between Michio Kaku and Ozzy Osbourne. Excuse me, that is what my personality type is like when I am not closeted.

 

[ZiprHead]

Amendment to Florida 'parental rights' bill could lead to outing of LGBTQ students, critics say

The GOP-backed amendment would require information shared between a student and school personnel to be provided to parents, even if it may harm the student.

www.wtsp.com

TALLAHASSEE, Fla. — An amendment to the House version of Florida's "Parental Rights in Education" legislation, which critics have called the "don't say gay" bill, would require the disclosure of certain student information to a parent after a period of time.
Opponents contend this could equate to the forced outing of a child to family members who may not be supportive of their sexual identity. They fear this could put the child at risk of abuse.

House Bill 1557, as it's written, bars school personnel from discouraging or prohibiting the notification of parents or parental involvement in critical decisions affecting a student's mental, emotional or physical health or well-being. Such information, however, could be withheld from a student's parents "if a reasonably prudent person would believe that disclosure would result in abuse, abandonment, or neglect."

But the amendment filed last week by one of the bill's sponsors, Republican State Rep. Joe Harding, places a six-week time limit until when information learned by school officials from a student would need to be disclosed to a parent.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Man, we are going to have no teachers in twenty years. This us v them relationship being created by the GOP is going to make this profession evaporate.

 

[Jarhyn]

Man, we are going to have no teachers in twenty years. This us v them relationship being created by the GOP is going to make this profession evaporate.

Not in Florida at any rate.

I feel bad for anyone trapped there in that, surrounded by stupid.

 

[laughing dog]

Ideally, every child should be comfortable confiding anything to their parent(s). But we don't live in an ideal world. Having a caring adult advisor or mentor can be extremely helpful to a child in need. Whether that adult is a favorite aunt or uncle or grandparent or cousin or neighbor or teacher or counselor or family friend is irrelevant.

This bill is just another example of conservative narcissism and authoritarianism masquerading as "parental rights". This isn't just stupid, it is downright harmful.

 

[TomC]

This bill is just another example of conservative narcissism and authoritarianism masquerading as "parental rights". This isn't just stupid, it is downright harmful.

Ya know, this brings up another point.
The OP is about teaching curriculum.

@Trausti rather derailed the discussion with a video about a mother. A mother who was outraged by finding out that her child was suicidal. Apparently, blaming the teacher and school for not contacting her to let her know that her kid is suicidal.

Apparently, it's the school and teachers fault that Mom is so out of touch with her own child that she doesn't know her kid is suicidal unless someone else tells her about it.

Which brings me to my real point. Modern parents seem to commonly expect the school system to parent their children, and then have the audacity to complain bitterly when the teachers don't parent the children the way the parents want them to parent.
Sorry Mom. You didn't notice that your child was suicidal. That's probably why the kid confided in a teacher and not you.

Get it?
Tom

 

[ZiprHead]

'I cannot teach in Florida': LGBTQ educators fear fallout from new school law

Following the enactment of what critics call the “Don’t Say Gay” law, some LGBTQ teachers have quit the profession altogether.

www.nbcnews.com

Last month, a group of parents in Orlando, Florida, demanded “consequences” against sixth grade science teacher Robert Thollander. His crime? Thollander acknowledged his marriage at school.

“He married a man. This alone is not an issue. Sharing the details … with all his 6th grade students is the issue,” the parents wrote in a letter sent to their children’s school board, which was shared with NBC News. “It was not appropriate. Many of these students felt very uncomfortable with the conversations and shared this with their families.”


Had Thollander just “said he will be out for a few days because he was getting married, no problem,” the letter continued, “but to discuss the details and create an uncomfortable situation for the students with no benefit to teaching his subject matter is inappropriate.”

Nevertheless, the incident prompted Thollander to make this school year his last after 11 years of working in Florida as a teacher.

“A lot of trust is given to teachers, and it made it seem like I wasn’t trusted because there’s something wrong with me for being gay,” he said. “It makes it seem like being gay is something vile or disturbing or disgusting when it’s described as making children uncomfortable knowing that I’m married to a man. It hurt.”

While the Orlando parents did not succeed in having Thollander disciplined or ousted, he and other LGBTQ teachers in the state worry that newly signed state law — titled Parental Rights in Education but dubbed by critics as the “Don’t Say Gay” law — will galvanize parents to take similar action against them. In fact, Thollander said he believes the parents who complained about him were emboldened by the bill even before it was signed into law.

 

[Gospel]

Desantis is doing a great job turning genuine concerns over the vague partition of the law that doesn't pertain to Kindergarteners into this;



He knows Disney workers (AKA the LGBTQ segment of Disney Customers/Employees) aren't against the Kindergarten part of the law but are against the vague ass part of the law that reaches beyond Kindergarten. Every time he's asked about said concerns he brings up Kindergarteners. Like no shit sherlock, I'm ok with that part of it, its the other crap in there that leaves way too much open for interpretation. But he and his voters are used to making up their own interpretations (looking at my wife's bible right now), so they see no cause for alarm.

Edit:: Typos & Q.

 

[Gospel]

And his dodging the real issue works. Just yesterday I asked my wife her opinion on the Mickey Mouse war (yeah I called it that) & she said " I agree with Disantis. If Disney prides itself on being a kid-friendly organization they shouldn't be against banning sex talks with babies". her words exactly. When I told her that it's not about the babies but young adults she said "the law has nothing to do with grades higher than kindergarten".

At that moment I went to the store to buy a pack of cigarettes. gave one to some random dude standing outside and we smoked together in silence for a while before I asked "what's going on with you"? I won't share his story (that would be derailing) but it was much less frustrating than mine.

 

[Trausti]

This bill is just another example of conservative narcissism and authoritarianism masquerading as "parental rights". This isn't just stupid, it is downright harmful.

Could you give the non-groomer, non-pedophile, explanation as to why you need to talk to K-3 kids about their sexuality? And keep this from their parents?

 

[Trausti]

Modern parents seem to commonly expect the school system to parent their children, and then have the audacity to complain bitterly when the teachers don't parent the children the way the parents want them to parent.

Do they? Or do parents expect schools to teach reading, writing, etc., and leave values to the parents. When (some) teachers try to break the bond between parent and child, parents rightly get upset.

 

[Trausti]

Desantis is doing a great job turning genuine concerns over the vague partition of the law that doesn't pertain to Kindergarteners into this;

View attachment 38000

He knows Disney workers (AKA the LGBTQ segment of Disney Customers/Employees) aren't against the Kindergarten part of the law but are against the vague ass part of the law that reaches beyond Kindergarten. Every time he's asked about said concerns he brings up Kindergarteners. Like no shit sherlock, I'm ok with that part of it, its the other crap in there that leaves way too much open for interpretation. But he and his voters are used to making up their own interpretations (looking at my wife's bible right now), so they see no cause for alarm.

Edit:: Typos & Q.

Unsurprising that some Disney workers are mad they can’t sexualize children.

Disney World employees child predator sting operation

Three Walt Disney World employees, a registered nurse and two military veterans were among 17 suspects arrested in an undercover sting targeting suspected child predators in Central Florida, according to reports.

www.ajc.com

Four Disney employees arrested in Florida human trafficking, child predator sting

The campaign, called Operation March Sadness 2, led to the arrests of 108 people, the Polk County Sheriff's Office said.

www.nbcnews.com

Two Disney employees among 17 arrested in child pornography sting in Florida

"Each one of these arrests has removed a predator from our streets, and the internet," Polk County Sheriff Grady Judd said in a statement.

www.nbcnews.com

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Teachers don't need permission from parents to do their job. They work for the school board. Let me ask you something, do you believe that a student is more likely to succeed with or without parent participation?

Are you asking me this?

I think that the main reason Catholic and other private schools out perform the public schools so much is due to having more engaged and invested parents. Parental participation is crucial.
Tom

You misspelled cherry picking their enrollment.

 

[TomC]

Teachers don't need permission from parents to do their job. They work for the school board. Let me ask you something, do you believe that a student is more likely to succeed with or without parent participation?

Are you asking me this?

I think that the main reason Catholic and other private schools out perform the public schools so much is due to having more engaged and invested parents. Parental participation is crucial.
Tom

You misspelled cherry picking their enrollment.

I didn't misspell anything.

Of course they can cherry pick enrollment. But they don't need to do that. Parents who don't much care about their children's education don't bother going to the fuss and expense of private education. Parents do the cherry picking, not the school.
Tom

 

[Elixir]

But they don't need to do that

Naked assertion.
IME, the Catholic schools ARE more concerned with the parents’ ability to pay exorbitant tuition than with the kids’ academic performance.

 

[marc]

Of course they can cherry pick enrollment. But they don't need to do that. Parents who don't much care about their children's education have to work two or three jobs to keep a roof over their head don't bother going to the fuss and have time for participation or money for the expense of private education.

 

[TomC]

But they don't need to do that

Naked assertion.
IME, the Catholic schools ARE more concerned with the parents’ ability to pay exorbitant tuition than with the kids’ academic performance.

Then perhaps you are less familiar with the Catholic schools than I am?

Do you recognize that possibility?
Tom

 

[TomC]

Of course they can cherry pick enrollment. But they don't need to do that. Parents who don't much care about their children's education have to work two or three jobs to keep a roof over their head don't bother going to the fuss and have time for participation or money for the expense of private education.

I'd rather lose the Catholic bashing derail.
I'm asking nicely.
Tom