New report on climate change released today

[angelo]

Someone calls this a rapture like cult. I think it's much worse than that. It seems climate has the power to turn perfectly intelligent human beings into idiotic zombie like morons.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

So there's no answer to my question about WTF did all that water go! Need I remind that icebergs, or even the entire North Pole were to melt, it would have zero effect on sea levels. but if all the land based ice sheets were to melt, the seas would flood ALL coastal areas up to 100 meters or more.

Here's an anti Swedish brat who has just as much right to speak her mind as does the lefts darling brat of the century!

What Thunberg says and this other teen says... are irrelevant to the fact that we are seeing higher temperatures raising at what are fast rates for such a large area. For instance. Take a bowl of water in your kitchen that is at room temperature. Heat it up 1 degree Celsius using only the energy in the air. Multiply that by quite a bit to understand the amount of energy required to increase temperatures over such a large system.

They can't argue the facts so they try to shoot every messenger bringing those facts.

 

[angelo]

So there's no answer to my question about WTF did all that water go! Need I remind that icebergs, or even the entire North Pole were to melt, it would have zero effect on sea levels. but if all the land based ice sheets were to melt, the seas would flood ALL coastal areas up to 100 meters or more.

Here's an anti Swedish brat who has just as much right to speak her mind as does the lefts darling brat of the century!

What Thunberg says and this other teen says... are irrelevant to the fact that we are seeing higher temperatures raising at what are fast rates for such a large area. For instance. Take a bowl of water in your kitchen that is at room temperature. Heat it up 1 degree Celsius using only the energy in the air. Multiply that by quite a bit to understand the amount of energy required to increase temperatures over such a large system.

They can't argue the facts so they try to shoot every messenger bringing those facts.

But that's exactly what the warmists/alarmist are doing! They can't argue the facts, so they attack the messenger. It's an old tactic that fails miserably as this video shows!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_8xd0LCeRQ

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Attack the messenger, like Thunberg? Seriously, your spam is spam relative to spam.

 

[angelo]

My deepest apologies. I had no idea the brat was a climate/atmospheric scientist!

 

[bigfield]

"It's only 'shooting the messenger' if the messenger is a climate scientist. Meanwhile, let me present this historian's opinion on climate science."

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

My deepest apologies. I had no idea the brat was a climate/atmospheric scientist!

It is baseline definition hypocrisy to play the ‘being attacked as the messenger’ card when you go about attacking the messenger all the time.

 

[angelo]

The messenger in this case is a brainwashed autistic kid who's been coached and told what to say by someone with ulterior motive.
That she's become the left's darling isn't surprising.

 

[ZiprHead]

The messenger in this case is a brainwashed autistic kid who's been coached and told what to say by someone with ulterior motive.
That she's become the left's darling isn't surprising.

Unlike the darling on the right, Naomi Seibt, who was actually hired by the Heartland Institute and praises white nationalists.

 

[repoman]

The messenger in this case is a brainwashed autistic kid who's been coached and told what to say by someone with ulterior motive.
That she's become the left's darling isn't surprising.

Unlike the darling on the right, Naomi Seibt, who was actually hired by the Heartland Institute and praises white nationalists.

Yeah kind of silly since acknowledging obvious human induced climate change is highly compatible with immigration slashing, lower trade levels and most importantly sensible ideology of ecofascism.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

They can't argue the facts so they try to shoot every messenger bringing those facts.

But that's exactly what the warmists/alarmist are doing! They can't argue the facts, so they attack the messenger. It's an old tactic that fails miserably as this video shows!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_8xd0LCeRQ

From the climate change side I see facts. From the deniers I see attacks on the climate change people.

 

[lpetrich]

AOC seemed to be addressing Joe Biden in some recent tweets:

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez on Twitter: "$1.7T is not enough to tackle climate change.
Inadequate climate plans are a form of denialism over how bad this problem really is.
My generation & future ones will have to contend with the horrifying mess that the cowardly leadership of previous ones left us. It’s a betrayal." / Twitter
then
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez on Twitter: "While political leaders are quick to point fingers at other countries, they still continue to champion TRADE DEALS w/ no emission standards.
When Bernie brought up climate in a previous debate on trade, he was chastised. He takes climate change seriously. Other policies do not." / Twitter

 

[lpetrich]

AOC seemed to endorse playing hardball in trade deals to get emissions reductions.

Something that may make that less necessary would be local climate activists, however. I've listed nations with known climate-activist demonstrations, and I've identified some nations as "activism deserts". Some of them are very poor nations, but others are relatively rich -- and big emitters. China is the biggest, followed by Russia and Saudi Arabia.


Julian Brave NoiseCat on Twitter: "Democrats already have a plan for the next recession. It's called the Green New Deal.
@MarkVinPaul and I wrote about how to think about stimulus, deficits and climate for the @DataProgress blog: https://t.co/r724dDLJ9z" / Twitter
noting
Decarbonization must be the Democrats’ Recession Plan

But for Democrats to center the economic and climate ambitions of the Green New Deal in their fiscal policy, they will have to challenge central tenets of the Clinton and Obama years—namely fixation on monetary policy, fear of deficits and timidity in the face of planetary crisis.

In political terms, this means that Democrats need to do away with their obsession with “pay-fors”. When hawkish politicians send young Americans off to war, no one ever asks how we will pay for the carnage. And when Republicans raided the treasury to pass tax cuts for billionaires and corporations, they never had to explain how they were going to offset the loot. But, when it comes time to fight climate change and patch the threadbare social safety net, suddenly profligate conservative lawmakers become scrupulous auditors with their liberal counterparts happy to take on the role of faithful accountants. Despite lawmakers’ fears, Data for Progress polling has shown that the cost of a Green New Deal doesn’t impact public support for the policy: a $100 billion Green New Deal enjoys the same support as a $1 trillion package.

 

[lpetrich]

Opinion | Think This Pandemic Is Bad? We Have Another Crisis Coming - The New York Times - "Ms. Gunn-Wright is director of climate policy at the Roosevelt Institute."
Homepage - Roosevelt Institute - "The Roosevelt Institute is the nonprofit partner to the Franklin D. Roosevelt Presidential Library and Museum in Hyde Park, NY—America’s first presidential library."

"On the last Friday in March, I lost hope." She had had it earlier because she had counted on her fellow Americans' will to survive.

Friends sent me video after video of Republican senators debating stimulus measures to address the coronavirus crisis, standing in the Senate chamber, saying that the Green New Deal — a proposal that I helped create — was the reason millions of Americans would not receive the help that they need.

I was furious. Of the nearly $2 trillion in aid proposed in that first version of the Coronavirus Aid, Relief, and Economic Security Act, known as the CARES Act, $500 billion went toward a business-relief fund with little to no oversight.

AOC did a wonderfully theatrical denunciation of that "shameful" action.

In three of the states with the highest number of Covid-19 cases — Illinois, Michigan and Louisiana — African-Americans made up 40 to 70 percent of deaths from the disease, far outpacing the percentage of black people in each state. Many of the black communities ravaged by Covid-19 are “front-line communities” — where residents live adjacent to heavily polluting industries. If you’re black or Latinx — and especially if you’re poor — it is difficult not to live in a front-line community. Oil, gas and petrochemical industries have concentrated so heavily in low-income, majority-black-and-brown areas that black people are 75 percent more likely to live near industrial facilities than the average American.

Metro Detroit, the epicenter of Michigan’s Covid-19 outbreak, is home to steel mills, waste-processing plants and the only oil refinery in the state — all in or near low-income, black and Latinx neighborhoods. The people most likely to die from toxic fumes are the same people most likely to die from Covid-19. It’s like we are watching a preview of the worst possible impacts of the climate crisis roll right before our eyes.

How to get people back to work? Public investment. FDR was rather cautious during the 1930's, because he did not want to seem like an excessively big spender. But Japan's attack on Pearl Harbor provoked a massive outpouring of government spending.

What might be something similar? RGW proposes action to counteract climate change. A massive effort to construct renewable-energy facilities and upgrade buildings and similar sorts of things. Not just in the US but in most other industrialized nations.

 

[lpetrich]

Rhiana Gunn-Wright on Twitter: "my op-ed for the @nytimes came out today, and i'm prouder of it than i've been of anything in a long time. ..."

my op-ed for the @nytimes came out today, and i'm prouder of it than i've been of anything in a long time.

i know i'm supposed to write a long thread linking to facts and follow-up, but the thing i want to say most is that i almost didn't write it.

one of the weird things about amassing more power (/moving up in your career/becoming a leader/getting older) is that people want to hear what *you* think. you're allowed to speak clearly and without qualifiers. you have earned, somehow, the right to have an opinion.

but i've seen people too many lose jobs, lose respect, even die because they said their opinions out loud. and i'm not talking about cancel culture. i'm talking about people – regular marginalized folks – who had the nerve to speak before they were asked to.

i've seen it happen to my mom. to my friends. hell, i've almost lost a job or two over it.

that stuff stays with you. it stayed with me, at least.

so when i got an email asking me to write an op-ed, i almost said no. i don't like putting myself in danger.

and i really, truly felt like i was in danger. (yes, i know that it was mostly in my head.)

but thank God for the people who see you and tell you that they will walk with you, even when it gets scary (like @ArielaRW and @JenParker393). thank goodness for the folks who think your opinion matters in the first place (like @kevinjdelaney).

and thank goodness for the @rooseveltinst for giving me a crew of co-workers who also believe that we can remake the world in the ways that we need, even when people tell you to be "reasonable" and "strategic" instead.

i know that i just tweeted an oscars acceptance speech for an op-ed but i did something i never thought i could do so i'm gonna celebrate it and reflect on it for a bit.

i'm not just somebody's analyst anymore

I first encountered her spring last year when she appeared in a national town hall with AOC.

 

[angelo]

Perhaps if the COVID-19 pandemic continues for another couple of years, it may at least clean up the Earth's pollution somewhat. But at what cost?

 

[lpetrich]

Perhaps if the COVID-19 pandemic continues for another couple of years, it may at least clean up the Earth's pollution somewhat. But at what cost?

I've never been a fan of the argument that it's necessary to break eggs to make an omelet.

CNBC Now on Twitter: "BREAKING: Crude oil falls 300% to nearly negative $40 per barrel [url]https://t.co/HlsH3slbGO https://t.co/2SEY8DJyk7" / Twitter[/url]
noting
Eva Golinger on Twitter: "As if things couldn't get more surreal. Now oil dropped to negative $40. It's a good time to re-think fossil fuel dependence and move to renewable energy sources that don't require mass storage and don't harm the planet. https://t.co/Fc1OrCMXvS" / Twitter

PetriN on Twitter: "Well, you now have to pay someone to buy Western Canada Select oil. Unreal. https://t.co/rUsNJdLhoh" / Twitter
noting
Eric Holthaus on Twitter: "A little bit earlier this evening, the price for Canadian crude oil went negative.
In the Alberta tar sands, at least for the moment, oil is now worthless. This is a turning point in the climate movement. https://t.co/PgSSyS3Vyv" / Twitter

350 dot org on Twitter: "Let's be clear - the fossil fuel industry was struggling way before COVID19. You can read a full explanation by @drvox here:
It would be a shame to emerge from this crisis still clinging to the past rather than facing, and preparing for, the future."" / Twitter
noting
Coronavirus stimulus will be wasted on oil and gas; negative oil prices show fossil fuels are in decline - Vox - "Oil and gas companies were already facing structural problems before Covid-19 and are in long-term decline."

 

[lpetrich]

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez on Twitter: "Now is the time to create millions of good jobs building out the infrastructure and clean energy necessary to save our planet for future generations.
For our economy, our planet, and our future, we need a #GreenNewDeal." / Twitter

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez on Twitter: "Now is the time to create millions of good jobs building out the infrastructure and clean energy necessary to save our planet for future generations.
For our economy, our planet, and our future, we need a #GreenNewDeal." / Twitter

Demetrius L Burns on Twitter: "@AOC Honest question here. I been in the oil industry 13yrs. Started from the bottom worked to a management position. I dont have a college degree, so if this industry goes under I'll be out of a job. We've already laid off 3/4 of our work force since this covid happened." / Twitter
then
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez on Twitter: "@Dburns4221 What we need to do is bring workers like you to the table in our transition to renewable infrastructure, & guaranteeing pensions for fossil fuel workers.
If you see what is happening to coal workers, the mines get $ and workers are hung to dry. We can’t allow for that to happen." / Twitter
then
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez on Twitter: "@Dburns4221 When the coal industry started a long-term decline, instead of moving swiftly to support workers, DC got into a lobbyist-friendly vicious cycle of bailouts that helped co’s more than it helped workers.
This time we need to invest in creating opportunities & financial security." / Twitter

 

[lpetrich]

That Twitter thread contained a deleted tweet from her:

You absolutely love to see it.

This along with record low interest rates means it's the right time for a worker-led, mass investment in green infrastructure to save our planet. *cough*

It was in response to
Brandon Smith on Twitter: "Oil prices now at “negative values,” meaning oil producers have to pay people to take it off their hands and store it because when demand plunges (like now), that is less expensive for them than building more storage and/or shutting wells down. https://t.co/MQVHc2EXyf" / Twitter

AOC composed another response:
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez on Twitter: "This snapshot is being acknowledged as a turning point in the climate movement. Fossil fuels are in long-term structural decline.
This along w/ low interest rates means it‘s the right time to create millions of jobs transitioning to renewable and clean energy. A key opportunity. https://t.co/UqT8DI5u2I" / Twitter

I like this response:
Zina Spezakis for Congress NJ9 on Twitter: "@AOC 1/2 We should start transitioning fossil fuel workforces into renewables and clean tech.
Even without the #coronavirus demand disruption, wind energy has become cheaper than the most efficient natural gas plants.
Let's speed up the transition to a clean energy system by:" / Twitter
then
Zina Spezakis for Congress NJ9 on Twitter: "@AOC 2/2
1. eliminating fossil fuel subsidies,
2. increasing R&D, and
3. holding fossil fuel executive liable for the knowingly destroying our planet by funding disinformation campaigns." / Twitter

I like ZS because she's very familiar with the details of renewable-energy systems.

 

[bigfield]

Perhaps if the COVID-19 pandemic continues for another couple of years, it may at least clean up the Earth's pollution somewhat. But at what cost?

The 2008 recession caused carbon emissions to drop slightly before growth resumed again once the global economy recovered. It effectively acted as a very short term pause in our emissions growth. I expect the pandemic will be a more amplified version of the same pattern: emissions will drop as the global recession/depression bites, then emissions will resume growing once the global economy returns to growth.

Cities normally shrouded in smog are currently enjoying clear air, but when the economy returns to business as usual, the air will return to noxious as usual. The environment, and the people living in it, are only going to get a short reprieve before we go back to using the same machines as before.

The pandemic is certainly not a solution to the world's environmental problems. I suspect many governments will prioritise economic recovery over any efforts to reduce emissions. "How can you worry about climate change", they'll say, "we're got to fix the economy first!"

The pandemic is also going to throw off the IPCC's projections. None of their CO₂ emissions scenarios accounted for a global economic shutdown.