Split New York City Mayoral Race

[laughing dog]

“Unindicted conspirator” !!! Someone who has so little evidence that there are no charges, let alone a conviction.

A very weak smear by association in my opinion.

 

[ZiprHead]

“Unindicted conspirator” !!! Someone who has so little evidence that there are no charges, let alone a conviction.

A very weak smear by association in my opinion.

You expect better from the New York Post?

 

[Derec]

“Unindicted conspirator” !!! Someone who has so little evidence that there are no charges, let alone a conviction.

A very weak smear by association in my opinion.

You expect better from the New York Post?

"Unindicted co-conspirator" is a legitimate legal term (see this case for example), not something made up by the Post.

Anyway, regardless of the of criminal prosecution of Jeffrey Kearse, what do you think about his support for the Blind Sheikh and his Islamist views, including this:

Wahhaj has also derided the LGBTQ community as “a disease of this society,” the report found.

He also said this:

Islam is better than democracy. Allah will cause his deen [Islam as a complete way of life], Islam to prevail over every kind of system, and you know what? It will happen.

And yet Mamdani is embracing him. Do you two have anything at all to say about that, or do you just want to bitch about the Post daring to write less than fawning articles about Mr. Cardamom?

 

[laughing dog]

“Unindicted conspirator” !!! Someone who has so little evidence that there are no charges, let alone a conviction.

A very weak smear by association in my opinion.

You expect better from the New York Post?

"Unindicted co-conspirator" is a legitimate legal term (see this case for example), not something made up by the Post.

Anyway, regardless of the of criminal prosecution of Jeffrey Kearse, what do you think about his support for the Blind Sheikh and his Islamist views, including this:

Wahhaj has also derided the LGBTQ community as “a disease of this society,” the report found.

He also said this:

Islam is better than democracy. Allah will cause his deen [Islam as a complete way of life], Islam to prevail over every kind of system, and you know what? It will happen.

And yet Mamdani is embracing him. Do you two have anything at all to say about that, or do you just want to bitch about the Post daring to write less than fawning articles about Mr. Cardamom?

I did not have the article in mind.

If there isn’t enough evidence to sustain a charge, it is a nothing burger. Which makes it s weak smear attempt.

Religious fanatics of all stripes say vicious or stupid things. Those quotes could easily come from a Christian nationalist. Photo ops with community leaders are common. I wonder if he had a picture with Fred Phelps (Westboro Church) or Doug Wilson (Christian Nationalist), would the NY Post even bother?

The voters of NYC get to decide whether this matters. It’s their town.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

“Unindicted conspirator” !!! Someone who has so little evidence that there are no charges, let alone a conviction.

A very weak smear by association in my opinion.

You expect better from the New York Post?

"Unindicted co-conspirator" is a legitimate legal term (see this case for example), not something made up by the Post.

Anyway, regardless of the of criminal prosecution of Jeffrey Kearse, what do you think about his support for the Blind Sheikh and his Islamist views, including this:

Wahhaj has also derided the LGBTQ community as “a disease of this society,” the report found.

He also said this:

Islam is better than democracy. Allah will cause his deen [Islam as a complete way of life], Islam to prevail over every kind of system, and you know what? It will happen.

And yet Mamdani is embracing him. Do you two have anything at all to say about that, or do you just want to bitch about the Post daring to write less than fawning articles about Mr. Cardamom?

I'm suffering from deja vu.. I remember this exact sort of discussion but about a church in Chicago... 17 or so years ago. I'm also remembering all of the hype and fear amounted to absolutely nothing. If you are afraid of Mamdani turning NYC into a caliphate, your fears are ridiculous. The city is too diverse for anything like that.

As far as the Post, I'd fact check if they reported the sun rose in the East.

 

[GenesisNemesis]

“Unindicted conspirator” !!! Someone who has so little evidence that there are no charges, let alone a conviction.

A very weak smear by association in my opinion.

You expect better from the New York Post?

"Unindicted co-conspirator" is a legitimate legal term (see this case for example), not something made up by the Post.

Anyway, regardless of the of criminal prosecution of Jeffrey Kearse, what do you think about his support for the Blind Sheikh and his Islamist views, including this:

Wahhaj has also derided the LGBTQ community as “a disease of this society,” the report found.

He also said this:

Islam is better than democracy. Allah will cause his deen [Islam as a complete way of life], Islam to prevail over every kind of system, and you know what? It will happen.

And yet Mamdani is embracing him. Do you two have anything at all to say about that, or do you just want to bitch about the Post daring to write less than fawning articles about Mr. Cardamom?

You never have anything to say about Christian nationalists (who have, largely, taken over the government as part of Project 2025, which we know is happening), so spare me your pearl clutching.

 

[Tigers!]

Will ther be any more debates?

 

[Politesse]

Tomorrow, yes.

 

[Derec]

I did not have the article in mind.
If there isn’t enough evidence to sustain a charge, it is a nothing burger. Which makes it s weak smear attempt.

As I have explained, it is not a "smear attempt". You just don't want to acknowledge it, or comment on the horrible statements this Islamist cleric has made.

Religious fanatics of all stripes say vicious or stupid things. Those quotes could easily come from a Christian nationalist.

Whataboutism. An Islamist made these statements, and the Democratic nominee, and prohibitive frontrunner, for NYC mayor has embraced him.
You want to ignore it and instead want to talk about hypothetical "Christian nationalists".

Photo ops with community leaders are common. I wonder if he had a picture with Fred Phelps (Westboro Church) or Doug Wilson (Christian Nationalist), would the NY Post even bother?

It would certainly be major news, not just in the Post but also in the NY Times.

But Kearse is worse than either of these two. Imagine if an unindicted coconspirator in the Oklahoma City bombings said things like "Christianity is better than democracy. Christ Jesus will cause his Way, Christianity to prevail over every kind of system, and you know what? It will happen."
And then call for Christian New Yorkers to wage Holy War against everyone else to make it happen.
And then imagine a politician embraced this so-called "community leader". That he is even considered a "community leader" in any way is already outrageous, him palling around with the likely new mayor of NYC is disqualifying for Mamdani, as it would be for any politician embracing a supporter of Christian nationalist terrorism.

The voters of NYC get to decide whether this matters. It’s their town.

It is their town, and most of us will not vote in the election. But this election will have repercussions well beyond the Five Boroughs, and is thus a legitimate topic of discussion here.

 

[Derec]

I'm suffering from deja vu.. I remember this exact sort of discussion but about a church in Chicago... 17 or so years ago.

As distasteful as Obama's racist pastor has been, this Kearse guy is a 1000x worse.

If you are afraid of Mamdani turning NYC into a caliphate, your fears are ridiculous. The city is too diverse for anything like that.

Mamdani can do a lot of damage short of "turning NYC into a caliphate". For example, he can forbid the NYPD to cooperate with Feds on Islamic terrorism-related cases.

As far as the Post, I'd fact check if they reported the sun rose in the East.

What are you saying here exactly? Are you saying that Mamdani embracing Islamist Jihad supporters is as obvious as Sun rising in the East, and that it therefore should not warrant further mention?
Is the Pope Catholic?
Does the bear shit in the woods?
Does the Sun rise in the East?
Does Mamdani embrace Jihadists?

 

[Derec]

You never have anything to say about Christian nationalists (who have, largely, taken over the government as part of Project 2025, which we know is happening), so spare me your pearl clutching.

This is a thread about the NYC mayoral race. The frontrunner in that race embraced an Islamist preacher who has supported the ringleader of the 1993 WTC bombing.
If a "Christian nationalist", especially one who testified as a character witness in support of the likes of Timothy McVeigh, had been embraced by a NYC mayoral candidate, your hobbyhorse would be on topic. As it stands, it's a derail.

Note that this was more than a mere "photo op". Mamdani attended an event hosted by this Islamist preacher and has praised him.

“When I stand on that stage,” said Mamdani, 34, before an all-male crowd dressed in caftans and skullcaps, “and I have a former governor trying to make me feel ashamed for standing up for universal human rights—and extending them to Palestinians as well—I know I am not alone.”
The crowd erupted. “Allahu Akbar,” several men shouted gleefully in a video of the speech obtained by The Free Press. Other men who were there cried out “takbīr,” an Arabic call to praise God.
This wasn’t your typical campaign event held at Boys & Girls Clubs or the home of a major donor. It was a “pre-Jummah address” held at Masjid At-Taqwa, a Brooklyn mosque led by Siraj Wahhaj, whose name appeared on a list drawn up by federal prosecutors of “unindicted persons who may be alleged as co-conspirators” in the 1993 bombing of the World Trade Center. In a photo later posted to X by Mamdani, he beamed beside Wahhaj and called him “one of the nation’s foremost Muslim leaders and a pillar of the Bed-Stuy community for nearly half a century.”
That imam, a Brooklyn native born Jeffrey Kearse, has long been linked to radical Islam. He served as a character witness for Omar Abdel-Rahman—the notorious “Blind Sheikh” convicted in 1995 of plotting terrorist attacks against the United States. When asked about his relationship to the “Blind Sheikh” in court, Wahhaj replied, “I respect him.” A former follower of the Nation of Islam—a radical, pro-segregation group—Wahhaj resurfaced similar themes in his address on Friday.

Mamdani Praises Imam Once on NYPD’s Terrorist Watch List

 

[Derec]

Will ther be any more debates?

Speaking of the first debate:

In recent months, Mr. Cuomo, who is running for mayor on an independent line, has claimed that Mr. Mamdani, the Democratic nominee, wants to go further to legalize prostitution, pointing to his previous support for state bills that would decriminalize it.
Mr. Mamdani has stressed that he has never supported legalization and called Mr. Cuomo’s comments smears.
[...]
Soon after his election to the Assembly in 2020, Mr. Mamdani stated that it was his “fundamental belief that sex work is work” and that the safety of prostitutes should be at the forefront of any response.
“Criminalizing clients, friends, family and allies of sex workers makes it extraordinarily difficult for them to meaningfully participate in public life, including paying rent, earning a living or even walking down the street,” he wrote in a questionnaire when running for re-election in 2022.
He also said in the survey that he opposed the “Nordic model,” legislation that would prohibit arresting prostitutes themselves while allowing clients to be detained and charged.

Cuomo Tries to Make Prostitution an Issue in Mayor’s Race

It is disappointing that Mr. Cardamom is running away from one of the few (and perhaps only) positions where he originally got it right.
Instead, he is holding fast to positions where he is dead wrong, like rent freezes, hostility toward Israel and embrace of Islamist extremists.
Disappointing.

 

[laughing dog]

I did not have the article in mind.
If there isn’t enough evidence to sustain a charge, it is a nothing burger. Which makes it s weak smear attempt.

As I have explained, it is not a "smear attempt".

Guilt by association is a smear attempt.

You just don't want to acknowledge it, or comment on the horrible statements this Islamist cleric has made.

Religious fanatics of all stripes say vicious or stupid things. Those quotes could easily come from a Christian nationalist.

Whataboutism. An Islamist made these statements, and the Democratic nominee, and prohibitive frontrunner, for NYC mayor has embraced him.
You want to ignore it and instead want to talk about hypothetical "Christian nationalists".

No. I’d prefer a rational discussion about what he might accomplish rather than smear attempts. But you keep doing you.

Photo ops with community leaders are common. I wonder if he had a picture with Fred Phelps (Westboro Church) or Doug Wilson (Christian Nationalist), would the NY Post even bother?

It would certainly be major news, not just in the Post but also in the NY Times.

Maybe, maybe not.

But Kearse is worse than either of these two. Imagine if an unindicted coconspirator in the Oklahoma City bombings said things like "Christianity is better than democracy. Christ Jesus will cause his Way, Christianity to prevail over every kind of system, and you know what? It will happen."
And then call for Christian New Yorkers to wage Holy War against everyone else to make it happen.
And then imagine a politician embraced this so-called "community leader". That he is even considered a "community leader" in any way is already outrageous, him palling around with the likely new mayor of NYC is disqualifying for Mamdani, as it would be for any politician embracing a supporter of Christian nationalist terrorism.

According to you, that is a “whataboutism “.

The voters of NYC get to decide whether this matters. It’s their town.

It is their town, and most of us will not vote in the election. But this election will have repercussions well beyond the Five Boroughs, and is thus a legitimate topic of discussion here.

It is a legitimate topic that merits a rational discussion. Why not try some instead of inane smears? I know its possible because the post prior to this is a perfect example.

 

[ZiprHead]

Cuomo deleted this ad after 20 minutes, following backlash

 

[TomC]

Cuomo deleted this ad after 20 minutes, following backlash

Can this ad be put in the "tired of AI" thread?
Tom

 

[Derec]

Cuomo deleted this ad after 20 minutes, following backlash

Horrible AI slop aside, most of this is based on what Mamdani said in his political career.

Cuomo is an ass for his continued demonizing of sex work though. I wonder if he is also a hypocrite about it like Eliot Spitzer.
And Mamdani is a coward for running away from perhaps his only sensible position.

 

[Derec]

As I have explained, it is not a "smear attempt".

Mamdani associating with somebody who supports Islamism and Jihad is relevant to his character and judgment.

No. I’d prefer a rational discussion about what he might accomplish rather than smear attempts.

I have discussed Mr. Cardamom's policy proposals as well as political positions. Those topics have not gotten a short shrift in the 21 pages of this thread.
But at the same time, discussing the character and judgment of the frontrunner is also very relevant, as it would be if the shoe were on the other foot.
As Euripides said "Every man is like the company he is wont to keep".

But you keep doing you.

Right back at ya.

Maybe, maybe not.

No maybes about it, and you know it. You'd be all over it if the shoe were on the other foot.

According to you, that is a “whataboutism “.

No, it's me painstakingly explaining your (and GenesisNemesis') whataboutism to you.

It is a legitimate topic that merits a rational discussion. Why not try some instead of inane smears? I know its possible because the post prior to this is a perfect example.

As I have explained it, pointing out a mayoral candidate praising and attending the event of an Islamist who supports jihadism and terrorism is not smearing.

 

[southernhybrid]

You never have anything to say about Christian nationalists (who have, largely, taken over the government as part of Project 2025, which we know is happening), so spare me your pearl clutching.

This is a thread about the NYC mayoral race. The frontrunner in that race embraced an Islamist preacher who has supported the ringleader of the 1993 WTC bombing.
If a "Christian nationalist", especially one who testified as a character witness in support of the likes of Timothy McVeigh, had been embraced by a NYC mayoral candidate, your hobbyhorse would be on topic. As it stands, it's a derail.

Note that this was more than a mere "photo op". Mamdani attended an event hosted by this Islamist preacher and has praised him.

“When I stand on that stage,” said Mamdani, 34, before an all-male crowd dressed in caftans and skullcaps, “and I have a former governor trying to make me feel ashamed for standing up for universal human rights—and extending them to Palestinians as well—I know I am not alone.”
The crowd erupted. “Allahu Akbar,” several men shouted gleefully in a video of the speech obtained by The Free Press. Other men who were there cried out “takbīr,” an Arabic call to praise God.
This wasn’t your typical campaign event held at Boys & Girls Clubs or the home of a major donor. It was a “pre-Jummah address” held at Masjid At-Taqwa, a Brooklyn mosque led by Siraj Wahhaj, whose name appeared on a list drawn up by federal prosecutors of “unindicted persons who may be alleged as co-conspirators” in the 1993 bombing of the World Trade Center. In a photo later posted to X by Mamdani, he beamed beside Wahhaj and called him “one of the nation’s foremost Muslim leaders and a pillar of the Bed-Stuy community for nearly half a century.”
That imam, a Brooklyn native born Jeffrey Kearse, has long been linked to radical Islam. He served as a character witness for Omar Abdel-Rahman—the notorious “Blind Sheikh” convicted in 1995 of plotting terrorist attacks against the United States. When asked about his relationship to the “Blind Sheikh” in court, Wahhaj replied, “I respect him.” A former follower of the Nation of Islam—a radical, pro-segregation group—Wahhaj resurfaced similar themes in his address on Friday.

Mamdani Praises Imam Once on NYPD’s Terrorist Watch List

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/othe...big-deal-when-prior-mayors-did-so/ar-AA1OWrVM

Front-running New York City mayoral candidate Zohran Mamdani is defending his decision to meet with (and praise) a radical Brooklyn imam - claiming that prior NYC mayors had also met with him and falsely asserting that they did not garner national attention.

Mamdani spoke at imam Siraj Wahhaj's Brooklyn mosque Friday and praised him on X as "one of the nation's foremost Muslim leaders and a pillar of the Bed-Stuy community for nearly half a century."

Mayoral opponents of Democratic nominee Mamdani - former Democratic New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo and Republican Curtis Sliwa - each criticized Mamdani over his praise of Wahhaj, and Mamdani pushed back against the criticism. And they will likely make the meeting an issue when the debate again Wednesday night, ahead of Election Day on Nov. 4.

"The same imam met with Mayor Bloomberg, met with Mayor de Blasio, campaigned alongside Eric Adams, and the only time it became an issue of national attention was when I met with him," Mamdani, a Muslim, said to reporters over the weekend. "That's because of the fact of my faith and because I'm on the precipice of winning this election."

Mamdani has received death threats and been accused of all kinds of shit that wasn't true. He's been attacked because he's a Muslim. Interestingly enough, some Muslims have attacked him because he supports the LBGTQ community, abortion rights etc.

I simply see a very idealistic young man who wants to make an extremely expensive city more affordable. Do I think he can accomplish many of his goals? No, but at least his heart is in the right place and he's a refreshing change from the current mayor and the former governor, just to mention two. He's been brutally attacked by Republicans who have said that he shouldn't have been permitted to stay in the US or become a citizen, despite coming here with his mother when he was 7. Give us a break. There is nothing scary about Mamdani unless you're a bigot who doesn't like people who are from different backgrounds or cultures.

I have an idiot friendly acquaintance who believes that Muslims are taking over the country, despite the fact that they make up about 1.3% of the population, according to the statistics I read. We are a country that is not supposed to have a religious test to run for office. We are supposed to support freedom of religion which also means freedom from religion. Mamdani isn't pushing his beliefs on the city of NY, but the White Christian Nationalists want us all be ruled by the crazy Christian Right. Why the fuck are you or anyone else worried about one Muslim who will likely be the major of one city?

 

[laughing dog]

As I have explained, it is not a "smear attempt".

Mamdani associating with somebody who supports Islamism and Jihad is relevant to his character and judgment.

True. But throwing in “unindicted conspirator” is a smear.

No. I’d prefer a rational discussion about what he might accomplish rather than smear attempts.

I have discussed Mr. Cardamom's policy proposals as well as political positions. Those topics have not gotten a short shrift in the 21 pages of this thread.
But at the same time, discussing the character and judgment of the frontrunner is also very relevant, as it would be if the shoe were on the other foot.
As Euripides said "Every man is like the company he is wont to keep".

But you keep doing you.

Right back at ya.

Maybe, maybe not.

No maybes about it, and you know it. You'd be all over it if the shoe were on the other foot.

Nope.

According to you, that is a “whataboutism “.

No, it's me painstakingly explaining your (and GenesisNemesis') whataboutism to you.

LOL- wrong again.

It is a legitimate topic that merits a rational discussion. Why not try some instead of inane smears? I know its possible because the post prior to this is a perfect example.

As I have explained it, pointing out a mayoral candidate praising and attending the event of an Islamist who supports jihadism and terrorism is not smearing.

Yes, it is guilt by association. How and for what dids Mr Mamdani praise the imam? Is it for his political views or community work or dometjing else? It makes a difference.

The previous post clearly illustrates how your bigotry drives your smear.

 

[Derec]

True. But throwing in “unindicted conspirator” is a smear.

No, it's not. It's a common legal term.

You are smearing me by falsely claiming that I am smearing Kearse.

Yes, it is guilt by association.

That the very likely next mayor of NYC is associating with jihadists is a very serious issue.

How and for what dids Mr Mamdani praise the imam? Is it for his political views or community work or dometjing else? It makes a difference.

He called him "one of the foremost Muslim leaders", which includes his views on the role of Islam.
Those views can be summed up in this statement of his

Islam is better than democracy. Allah will cause his deen, Islam to prevail over every kind of system, and you know what? It will happen.

In any case, I don't think you can separate his Islamist and pro-Jihad political view from any "community work" he does. Nazis should not be praised for doing "community work" and neither should Islamists.

The previous post clearly illustrates how your bigotry drives your smear

It is not bigotry. You are just willfully blind to the dangers of Islamism because Islamism and western Leftism are currently allied.