No thread on Patrick Lyoya?

[Gospel]

As well as an idiot. But being an idiot isn't why he's dead. It's mostly the violent part.
Tom

Who knows what all caused him to try to deal with the traffic stop by assaulting a cop. But he did choose to do that and wound up dead.
It happens.
Tom

Mr Lyoya is dead because he assaulted a cop. If he had not done that he wouldn't be dead.

Only in your imagination does what Lyoya did fit the description of violence & assault. He was resisting arrest, evading arrest, and trying to run away. But let me guess you think my pointing this out is my supporting Lyoya running away or resisting arrest right? I'll save you time. No.

 

[laughing dog]

If you shoot someone in the back, that means they are not facing you. Which means at that moment they cannot possibly be a threat to you. That makes it cowardly.

A simplistic and incorrect view.

Handwaved bs

Glad you recognize your prior statement as "handwaved bs".

That is an dishonest characterization.

Somebody not facing you can definitely be a threat to you.

You failed basic reading because I wrote "Which means at that moment..".

Not specifically to Lyoya, but generally, if a perp is armed with a firearm and running away, he or she can easily shoot back at you over the shoulder. It will not be a well-aimed shot, of course, but it will still be a threat to you (a wild shot, if it hits, is as deadly as an well-aimed one) or innocent bystanders....

A shot that is not aimed at you is not a threat to you. Duh.

More importantly, in the context of the discussion, Mr. Lyoya was not armed with a firearm.

 

[Gospel]

I wonder how it is someone can be charged with resisting arrest and not assault. Could it be they are not one and the same thing?
I wonder how it is someone can be charged with evading arrest and not assault. Could it be they are not one and the same thing?

 

[TSwizzle]

I agree that any black person is putting their life at substantial risk simply by being in the vincinity of a police officer.

That must cause a lot of anxiety for the substantial number of black people that are police officers etc.

 

[Toni]

I agree that any black person is putting their life at substantial risk simply by being in the vincinity of a police officer.

That is major league BS. Even more than usual.
The risk of getting shot for "being in the vincinty[sic] of a police officer" is infinitesimal. Regardless of race.
Can you even point to any cases where somebody was shot just for "being in the vincinty[sic] of a police officer" in the last few years? And even if you could find a few, you would have to divide that number by the hundreds of millions of instances of people "being in the vincinty[sic] of a police officer" and it would be a very small probability indeed.
So yes, your statement is BS.

I don’t write that lightly or to be glib.

You definitely do. What you wrote has no relationship with reality. It's pure propaganda.

Breonna Taylor, Botham Jean. Legend Smalls survived being hit in the head by a police bullet but fragments remain in his skull. I don't know how the 1 year old is doing now but he was intensive care for a long time.

I don't understand where you get 'propaganda' from my words.

 

[Toni]

I agree that any black person is putting their life at substantial risk simply by being in the vincinity of a police officer.

That must cause a lot of anxiety for the substantial number of black people that are police officers etc.

Apparently police officers frequently fire their weapons when they are afraid.

 

[Gospel]

I agree that any black person is putting their life at substantial risk simply by being in the vincinity of a police officer.

That must cause a lot of anxiety for the substantial number of black people that are police officers etc.

Black police officers are no less susceptible to making mistakes than white officers. The last time I got pulled over for just rolling down my fucking window was by a black officer. You yourself acknowledge that the crime rate amongst minorities is higher than that of whites. which in fact makes an officer whether white or black more likely to mistake me for a criminal with ill intentions than they would you.

 

[TSwizzle]

I agree that any black person is putting their life at substantial risk simply by being in the vincinity of a police officer.

That must cause a lot of anxiety for the substantial number of black people that are police officers etc.

Apparently police officers frequently fire their weapons when they are afraid.

Yeah but isn't it just the white police officers that do that?

 

[TSwizzle]

Black police officers are no less susceptible to making mistakes than white officers.

OK, but I don't think I said they weren't.

The last time I got pulled over for just rolling down my fucking window was by a black officer. You yourself acknowledge that the crime rate amongst minorities is higher than that of whites. which in fact makes an officer whether white or black more likely to mistake me for a criminal with ill intentions than they would you.

And you lived to tell the tale. Did the officer not shoot you for some reason?

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Not his violence.

Yes, it was Lyoya's violence that resulted in his death.
Tom

No, it's because someone placed a gun to the back of his head and pulled the trigger.

"Someone"?

You do realize that it wasn't a random stranger, right?

Correct. It was a person that is supposed to be trained to handle situations like this and not kill people point blank from behind them.

 

[Toni]

I agree that any black person is putting their life at substantial risk simply by being in the vincinity of a police officer.

That must cause a lot of anxiety for the substantial number of black people that are police officers etc.

Apparently police officers frequently fire their weapons when they are afraid.

Yeah but isn't it just the white police officers that do that?

Black police officers are more likely to be charged with a crime when they kill somebody be.

 

[Gospel]

And you lived to tell the tale. Did the officer not shoot you for some reason?

No. I wasn't shot, but it would have been nice to roll my window down without having to worry about taxpayers money getting wasted over it.

 

[TomC]

Black police officers are no less susceptible to making mistakes than white officers. The last time I got pulled over for just rolling down my fucking window was by a black officer. You yourself acknowledge that the crime rate amongst minorities is higher than that of whites. which in fact makes an officer whether white or black more likely to mistake me for a criminal with ill intentions than they would you.

Exactly.

Here's what I see as the big picture problem. YBM, as a demographic group, are notoriously violent. Far more so than the next most violent demographic, YWM, much less other people. As a result, YBM are treated differently by cops in general. Cops are more suspicious, less respectful, quicker to draw a weapon, that sort of thing. It's human nature.

The flip side is this. YBM are consistently treated worse than other people by the police. Law abiding Joe College, pillar of his church youth group, is also treated with abrasive disregard. So even he develops a bad attitude towards cops in general. It's human nature.

It's a vicious cycle.
Add to that the guns and drugs and cut-rate mental health care the USA is known for, as well as the modern culture of entitlement and victimhood and divisiveness, and we've got huge social problems.

Demonizing and defunding the police isn't going to make anything better, quite the contrary.
Tom

 

[Toni]

Mr Lyoya is dead because he assaulted a cop. If he had not done that he wouldn't be dead.

That seems clear enough to me.

I'm honestly not able to understand what you mean because you've constructed your sentences so poorly that it is impossible to discern their meaning.

Maybe the problem is that you can't understand things that upset your biases?
Like your assumptions about cops and violent perps(who happen to be black)? That's what it looks like to me.
Tom

Maybe the problem is that you won’t write unambiguous sentences. Maybe you don’t want to be called out on your biases the way you are so fond of calling out those who disagree with you so you write gobblety goop to try to hide your bias abs provide plausible deniability when you get called on it.

Only a fool does not recognize that there is an enormous problem with gun violence in the US, or that police are part of it. Too many innocent people are killed by police, including children. Including infants. Disproportionately black.

 

[TomC]

Mr Lyoya is dead because he assaulted a cop. If he had not done that he wouldn't be dead.

Well, he might be. People who drive with that much alcohol in their system tend to wind up dead, or worse.

Which part of this did you find ambiguous?

Mr Lyoya is dead because he assaulted a cop. If he had not done that he wouldn't be dead.

That seems clear enough to me.

I'm honestly not able to understand what you mean because you've constructed your sentences so poorly that it is impossible to discern their meaning.

Maybe the problem is that you can't understand things that upset your biases?
Like your assumptions about cops and violent perps(who happen to be black)? That's what it looks like to me.
Tom

Maybe the problem is that you won’t write unambiguous sentences. Maybe you don’t want to be called out on your biases the way you are so fond of calling out those who disagree with you so you write gobblety goop to try to hide your bias abs provide plausible deniability when you get called on it.

Only a fool does not recognize that there is an enormous problem with gun violence in the US, or that police are part of it. Too many innocent people are killed by police, including children. Including infants. Disproportionately black.

I try to think and post with nuance. If you find that unintelligible the problem isn't me.
Tom

 

[Toni]

Not his violence.

Yes, it was Lyoya's violence that resulted in his death.
Tom

No, it's because someone placed a gun to the back of his head and pulled the trigger.

"Someone"?

You do realize that it wasn't a random stranger, right?
It was someone who is expected to deal with violent drug addled criminals who are a danger to the rest of us, like Lyoya.
Tom

We all realize it wasn't a random stranger but a trained police officer. Rational people object to police officers executing suspects.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Black police officers are no less susceptible to making mistakes than white officers. The last time I got pulled over for just rolling down my fucking window was by a black officer. You yourself acknowledge that the crime rate amongst minorities is higher than that of whites. which in fact makes an officer whether white or black more likely to mistake me for a criminal with ill intentions than they would you.

Exactly.

Here's what I see as the big picture problem. YBM, as a demographic group, are notoriously violent. Far more so than the next most violent demographic, YWM, much less other people. As a result, YBM are treated differently by cops in general. Cops are more suspicious, less respectful, quicker to draw a weapon, that sort of thing. It's human nature.

No, that would be failed training for police officers.

Demonizing and defunding the police isn't going to make anything better, quite the contrary.

Trouble is, being critical of police shootings is viewed as "demonizing" the police these days. Any talk of oversight is responded to with anger. We have no fair legal system in place to police the police.

 

[laughing dog]

Mr Lyoya is dead because.

I try to think and post with nuance.

"Try" and "achieve" are different outcomes as your posts readily prove.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Not his violence.

Yes, it was Lyoya's violence that resulted in his death.
Tom

No, it's because someone placed a gun to the back of his head and pulled the trigger.

"Someone"?

You do realize that it wasn't a random stranger, right?
It was someone who is expected to deal with violent drug addled criminals who are a danger to the rest of us, like Lyoya.
Tom

We all realize it wasn't a random stranger but a trained police officer. Rational people object to police officers executing suspects.

"Executing" is a pretty damning charge... but shooting a person, who is on the ground, in the back of the head is galaxies away from "self-defense". And it sounds hard to include the word "justified" regarding such a shooting.

 

[Gospel]

Black police officers are no less susceptible to making mistakes than white officers. The last time I got pulled over for just rolling down my fucking window was by a black officer. You yourself acknowledge that the crime rate amongst minorities is higher than that of whites. which in fact makes an officer whether white or black more likely to mistake me for a criminal with ill intentions than they would you.

Exactly.

Here's what I see as the big picture problem. YBM, as a demographic group, are notoriously violent. Far more so than the next most violent demographic, YWM, much less other people. As a result, YBM are treated differently by cops in general. Cops are more suspicious, less respectful, quicker to draw a weapon, that sort of thing. It's human nature.

The flip side is this. YBM are consistently treated worse than other people by the police. Law abiding Joe College, pillar of his church youth group, is also treated with abrasive disregard. So even he develops a bad attitude towards cops in general. It's human nature.

It's a vicious cycle.
Add to that the guns and drugs and cut-rate mental health care the USA is known for, as well as the modern culture of entitlement and victimhood and divisiveness, and we've got huge social problems.

Demonizing and defunding the police isn't going to make anything better, quite the contrary.
Tom

You seem to get it. So you do understand why this guy

Prosecutor reviews case of Army officer who was hit with pepper spray during traffic stop

A special prosecutor has begun to review the case of Army Lieutenant Caron Nazario, who was hit with pepper spray in the face by Windsor police in December.

abcnews.go.com

was treated the way he was right? Because the police didn't see the tag, they immediately thought foul play, and when they discovered the driver was black that didn't put them at ease at all. In fact, he now needed to bow down to however they wanted to execute the law. The military gear and his explanation didn't help either because YBM dress like that sometimes & always claims they dindu nuffin. Heck YBM in military gear is probably a black nationalist.

Regardless, it's not the officer's fault that YBMs are known to be bad actors so it's not their fault when they become bad actors themselves as a result.

No worries America, still