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No thread on Patrick Lyoya?

Derec

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A bit surprising there hasn't been a thread about Patrick Lyoya yet. He is the latest #BLM hashtag.
Lyoya had a tag that did not belong on the car and had a warrant and a revoked license. So he decided to run and to fight with the officer once he caught up with Lyoya. During the scuffle, he tried to grab the officer's tazer, at which point he was shot in the back of the head.

Patrick Lyoya’s troubles with police may have prompted his resistance to officer
Compilation of different videos of the traffic stop, the struggle and of the shooting

The list of his previous crimes needs some clarification. The "unlawful use of a motor vehicle" is really stealing cars. I wonder if the car he drove that fateful day was stolen or why else there would be fake plates on it. So far, the police won't confirm this one way of the other:

Authorities Won’t Say If Patrick Lyoya Was Driving A Stolen Car When He Was Stopped


The case prompted race-baiter Al Sharpton to speak at the funeral and generally insert himself into the case and for hearse chaser Ben Crump (he makes Saul Goodman look like Clarence Darrow) to take the case.

There have also been protests even though the investigation is not even done - no doubt in hopes that charging decision will be driven by the streets and not the facts of the case. In Grand Rapids the protests were mostly, but not entirely, peaceful (in addition to blocking roads, some Black Panther pulled a gun on a motorist), while in Portland there was vandalism (including of the police precinct) driven in no small part by the well founded belief that the lefty Multnomah County DA will not prosecute any rioters and looters).
Viral video depicts protester brandishing weapon, Royal Black Panther Party responds with disciplinary action
Group damages northeast Portland businesses, PPB Precinct

I can already imagine the responses from the usual suspects on here: he should never have been stopped for a license plate violation, the cop should have let him go when he started running, and other excuses for the behavior of the suspect. On the contrary, Lyoya could have avoided this easily by not resisting. He'd be in jail, but alive and unharmed.
 

Rhea

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The list of his previous crimes needs some clarification. The "unlawful use of a motor vehicle" is really stealing cars. I wonder if the car he drove that fateful day was stolen or why else there would be fake plates on it. So far, the police won't confirm this one way of the other:
What??? No. That is not equal to stealing cars.

People around here do that all the time. They have three cars and one license plate. Or they keep old plates from previous cars so that they have a plate while driving around, but that plate was long ago made inactive, but they don’t have money to register or insure the current one. It’s not legal, but they do own all the cars, and none of them are stolen. This one might be stolen, but the mis-matched plate is not what proves it.
 

Derec

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What??? No. That is not equal to stealing cars.
It is not equal. Which is why I clarified. The next link I posted makes it clear that the "unlawful use" he was convicted of three times before was about stolen cars.

People around here do that all the time. They have three cars and one license plate. Or they keep old plates from previous cars so that they have a plate while driving around, but that plate was long ago made inactive, but they don’t have money to register or insure the current one. It’s not legal, but they do own all the cars, and none of them are stolen.

Around where is that? As I said, we do not know if this car was stolen or not. But he has a history of car thefts. Also, how come these friends of yours can afford three cars, but can't afford the registration for them? I bet their cars are uninsured too, which is not only illegal but also dangerous.
 

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750.414 Motor vehicle; use without authority but without intent to steal.


Sec. 414.

Any person who takes or uses without authority any motor vehicle without intent to steal the same, or who is a party to such unauthorized taking or using, is guilty of a misdemeanor punishable by imprisonment for not more than 2 years or a fine of not more than $1,500.00. However, in case of a first offense, the court may reduce the punishment to imprisonment for not more than 3 months or a fine of not more than $500.00. However, this section does not apply to any person or persons employed by the owner of said motor vehicle or anyone else, who, by the nature of his or her employment, has the charge of or the authority to drive said motor vehicle if said motor vehicle is driven or used without the owner's knowledge or consent.
 

Rhea

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Around where is that?
Pennsyltucky. Or any rural or poor area from Alabama to Idaho.
As I said, we do not know if this car was stolen or not. But he has a history of car thefts.
May be true, but the plates are not your proof, that’s all.
Also, how come these friends of yours can afford three cars, but can't afford the registration for them?
Because the registration and insurance cost more than the car. If you’ve ever wondered where that shitbox with 250,000 miles on it goes next, it is here. So when you are fixing one, you drive the other.

You didn’t know this? You can buy cars for $500, get parts from the junkyard for $80, and have it running by Friday. I guess I thought everyone knew that rural people drive cars into the ground and do not care a whole lot about legality of them.
I bet their cars are uninsured too, which is not only illegal but also dangerous.
But it’s a libertarian dream, so it is commonplace. Just ask the “radical constitutionlists” if they care about registrations or insurance.
Btw, fake plates reminded me of this scene. Enjoy!
LOL. What is that from? But no, that is not an image that comports with poor people moving plates around.
 

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Hey Derec, any reason you left out the video of the cop shooting Lyoya? I mean you provided all this context on how Lyoya deserved to die, but you left that out? Why?

Yeah, like we don't know the fucking answer already.
 

Derec

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Hey Derec, any reason you left out the video of the cop shooting Lyoya?
I did link to it. The reason I did not post it directly as a video is that the video is flagged as "sensitive" and thus has to be viewed on YouTube directly anyway.

I mean you provided all this context on how Lyoya deserved to die, but you left that out? Why?
I did not say he deserved to die, but play stupid games (like fight with a cop), win stupid prizes.

Yeah, like we don't know the fucking answer already.
That you have your preconceived notions and prejudices which led you not to see me having posted the damn video.
 

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How come when lawyers work for victims of police shootings, they are "shysters" or "hearse chasers" but when they work for police killers, they are simply lawyers?
 

Derec

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How come when lawyers work for victims of police shootings, they are "shysters" or "hearse chasers" but when they work for police killers, they are simply lawyers?
Because they are suing for millions even when police did nothing wrong. Hearse chaser specifically is a riff on "ambulance chaser".
Attorneys representing officers are not suing for millions. They are just fighting for their clients' freedom.

Remember that sovereign citizen bitch who threatened police with a shotgun and her family was awarded $38M even though the shooting was justified? Shyster is too good a word for them.

But what do you think about the case itself? Do you have any thoughts on it other than your concern about how I address greedy hearse chasers like Crump?
 

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Hey Derec, any reason you left out the video of the cop shooting Lyoya? I mean you provided all this context on how Lyoya deserved to die, but you left that out? Why?

Yeah, like we don't know the fucking answer already.
It's against the rules to post explicit acts of violence on the board.
 

Elixir

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More Derec flame bait.
The cop fucked up and a man is dead.
But the dead man won’t be causing any property damage any time soon, so party on!
 

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How come when lawyers work for victims of police shootings, they are "shysters" or "hearse chasers" but when they work for police killers, they are simply lawyers?
Because they are suing for millions even when police did nothing wrong. Hearse chaser specifically is a riff on "ambulance chaser".
Attorneys representing officers are not suing for millions. They are just fighting for their clients' freedom.

Remember that sovereign citizen bitch who threatened police with a shotgun and her family was awarded $38M even though the shooting was justified? Shyster is too good a word for them.
Apparently it was not justified in the eyes of that civil court. Nice to see the misogynistic touch.
Derec said:
But what do you think about the case itself? Do you have any thoughts on it other than your concern about how I address greedy hearse chasers like Crump?
I don’t care how you exhibit your biases. Once again a pointless and avoidable killing by the police is used as fuel for bigoted rants.
 

Derec

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More Derec flame bait.
No, I want an actual discussion. That your side so often resorts to flames when they run our of arguments is not my fault.

The cop fucked up and a man is dead.
The cop defended himself from a belligerent suspect.
It is Lyoya who fucked up royally. You could even say he fucked around and found out.
Let's see:
- he drove a car with fugazi plates.
- his driver's license was revoked
- he had two open warrants, including for a domestic violence incident (he hit his baby mama)
- instead of facing the music and letting himself be arrested, he decided to run and to fight with the officer when he caught up with him.

But the dead man won’t be causing any property damage any time soon, so party on!
But his supporters have, and probably will cause more if (as is likely and would be the correct decision) the DA decides not to pursue charges.

Why do you always dismiss property damage? Political extremists causing property damage in an attempt to effect change favorable to their side is a very bad thing in a democratic society. If anti-abortion activists were going around burning abortion clinics would you dismiss that as mere "property damage"?
 
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Derec

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Apparently it was not justified in the eyes of that civil court.
Because civil trials are paragons of finding out the truth. GTFO here!
Nice to see the misogynistic touch.
What "misogynistic" touch? Gaines was a bitch. It's not misogynistic to point that out any more than to point out that a particular male is a "dick" or a similar gendered insult. Did you see the video of her "sovereign citizen" traffic stop that led to the warrant service? The epithet applies.
I don’t care how you exhibit your biases. Once again a pointless and avoidable killing by the police is used as fuel for bigoted rants.
The one who is biased and bigoted is you.

I agree with you on one thing. This killing was 100% pointless and avoidable.
It could have been easily avoided by Lyoya not attempting to flee, and then not fighting with the officer for an extended period of time, even grabbing the officer's taser. I think Schurr showed quite a bit of restraint.

On a policy front, instead of nonsense about restricting traffic stops (meaning more barred drivers like Lyoya on the roads, endangering everyone else needlessly), how about increasing the police budget so we can have two officer patrols? Schurr having backup would have probably led to a different outcome here.
#fundThePolice
 

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the dead man won’t be causing any property damage any time soon,…
But his supporters have,

^ Derec’s rationale for instituting a police State … but not a racist one, of course.
Property damage.
 

thebeave

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Why do you always dismiss property damage? Political extremists causing property damage in an attempt to effect change favorable to their side is a very bad thing in a democratic society. If anti-abortion activists were going around burning abortion clinics would you dismiss that as mere "property damage"?

When its a lefty doing property damage to some random person's property, its no big deal and dismissed. When its a right winger doing damage to his own property, its a big deal ;)
 
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Loren Pechtel

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Chanting "I'm not resisting" doesn't make it so. The cop was trying to cuff him, he was trying to prevent it. Attempting to prevent it went up to a struggle for the taser--I strongly suspect he was simply trying to keep himself from being tased but that doesn't change the reality of the situation. I would fully expect taking a cop's taser to result in a bullet.
 

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Apparently it was not justified in the eyes of that civil court.
Because civil trials are paragons of finding out the truth. GTFO here!
And judgments from the police or DAs or you are?

Nice to see the misogynistic touch.
What "misogynistic" touch? Gaines was a bitch. It's not misogynistic to point that out any more than to point out that a particular male is a "dick" or a similar gendered insult. Did you see the video of her "sovereign citizen" traffic stop that led to the warrant service? The epithet applies.
I don’t care how you exhibit your biases. Once again a pointless and avoidable killing by the police is used as fuel for bigoted rants.
The one who is biased and bigoted is you.

I agree with you on one thing. This killing was 100% pointless and avoidable.
It could have been easily avoided by Lyoya not attempting to flee, and then not fighting with the officer for an extended period of time, even grabbing the officer's taser. I think Schurr showed quite a bit of restraint.

On a policy front, instead of nonsense about restricting traffic stops (meaning more barred drivers like Lyoya on the roads, endangering everyone else needlessly), how about increasing the police budget so we can have two officer patrols? Schurr having backup would have probably led to a different outcome here.
#fundThePolice
[/QUOTE]
Apparently it was not justified in the eyes of that civil court.
Because civil trials are paragons of finding out the truth. GTFO here!
Nice straw man. Apparently you feel unilateral judgments from DAs or the police or you are the paragons of finding out the truth. While I can understand the appeal, it is ridiculous.
Nice to see the misogynistic touch.
What "misogynistic" touch? Gaines was a bitch. .....
Doubling down on the misogyny is not a convincing argument. She is pretty much an arrogant dumbbell.

The one who is biased and bigoted is you.
I'm not the one who has a persistent and irrational animus towards black shooting victims and #BLM.
I agree with you on one thing. This killing was 100% pointless and avoidable.
It could have been easily avoided by Lyoya not attempting to flee, and then not fighting with the officer for an extended period of time, even grabbing the officer's taser. I think Schurr showed quite a bit of restraint.
Of course you do.
On a policy front, instead of nonsense about restricting traffic stops (meaning more barred drivers like Lyoya on the roads, endangering everyone else needlessly), how about increasing the police budget so we can have two officer patrols? Schurr having backup would have probably led to a different outcome here.
#fundThePolice
There is no basis in rationality for your conclusion.
 

Toni

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How come when lawyers work for victims of police shootings, they are "shysters" or "hearse chasers" but when they work for police killers, they are simply lawyers?
Because they are suing for millions even when police did nothing wrong. Hearse chaser specifically is a riff on "ambulance chaser".
Attorneys representing officers are not suing for millions. They are just fighting for their clients' freedom.

Remember that sovereign citizen bitch who threatened police with a shotgun and her family was awarded $38M even though the shooting was justified? Shyster is too good a word for them.

But what do you think about the case itself? Do you have any thoughts on it other than your concern about how I address greedy hearse chasers like Crump?
Shooting someone in the back of the head when you have him pinned to the ground is definitely wrong, particularly when he is unarmed.

From what I saw and read, it sounded like Lyoya panicked, grabbed at a taser and the cop panicked, and shot him in the back of the head after he had already subdued him.

I think that shooting a suspect carries a high threshold of reasonableness and need. Shooting one in the back of the head while the suspect is face down on the ground with you on top of him? Quite a lot higher.

There are many questions about this shooting, starting with whether or not the police officer was correct in pulling him over in the first place:


FFS, police need to really, really, really learn that shouting at people when you have a gun pointed at them is unlikely to get you a calm, reasoned response to whatever question or demand you are shouting. Instead, people panic and someone gets hurt, often dead. Of course it's usually the person who is being shouted at so no big deal I guess, especially if his skin is dark.

FWIW, racism is an enormous problem in Grand Rapids:

 

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Pennsyltucky. Or any rural or poor area from Alabama to Idaho.
But Grand Rapids is not rural by any stretch of imagination. And St. Patrick of Lyoya wore designer clothes (like Gucci) so he has no "I am so poor I can't afford to register my car" excuse.
The Driver, the Officer and the Deadly Traffic Stop in Grand Rapids

May be true, but the plates are not your proof, that’s all.
I did not say they were.

Because the registration and insurance cost more than the car. If you’ve ever wondered where that shitbox with 250,000 miles on it goes next, it is here. So when you are fixing one, you drive the other.
Reality check. The car Lyoya was driving is no 250k mile shitbox.

You didn’t know this? You can buy cars for $500, get parts from the junkyard for $80, and have it running by Friday. I guess I thought everyone knew that rural people drive cars into the ground and do not care a whole lot about legality of them.
Oh, I knew. I am just surprised you seem to be approving of the practice.

But it’s a libertarian dream, so it is commonplace. Just ask the “radical constitutionlists” if they care about registrations or insurance.
You mean sovereign citizens? Those people are nuts.

LOL. What is that from? But no, that is not an image that comports with poor people moving plates around.
Better Call Saul. One of the best shows on TV right now. There is also this cool webisode as a documentary from after the events of Breaking Bad.
And yeah, that's why I thought better of it and deleted it from my post. :)
 
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Derec

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^ Derec’s rationale for instituting a police State … but not a racist one, of course.
Property damage.
Nobody here is seeking to institute a police state. That's pretty slanderous.
However, those who commit crimes such as destroying property should be held responsible regardless of race or political positions.
Why are you so loathe to admit that political violence from the left is just as wrong as from the right?

P.S.: learn to quote, oldtimer.
 

Derec

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And judgments from the police or DAs or you are?
Of course not, although police and DAs are more knowledgeable on the matters of law than 12 random people.
But we should look at the actual facts of the case no matter what DAs and juries say. Thing is, you never try to make a reasoned argument from the facts - you always go to questionable arguments from authority.
The facts here are pretty simple: Gaines threatened police with a firearm and was thus a credible threat to police and also to her child who was in the apartment with her. The entire thing is on her. She escalated a situation that was a simple FTA warrant into an armed standoff.

Nice straw man. Apparently you feel unilateral judgments from DAs or the police or you are the paragons of finding out the truth. While I can understand the appeal, it is ridiculous.
I do not think that, which is why this is not a straw man. At least not on my part.
DAs can be wrong. Sometimes they know better, but still do it for political reasons like Mike Nifong (Crystal Magnum) and Paul Howard (Rayshard Brooks), sometimes they are just fallible human beings.
Which is why we should always go to the facts of the case in question.
Like this Lyoya guy: he had fake plates - not just expired plates, but plates belonging to another car, implying criminal intent. Which is why he was stopped.
He had his license revoked, but still drove. He had two open warrants, including for domestic violence.
Instead of coöperating with police, he ran and then fought with the officer for an extended period, including trying to grab the officer's taser.
Those are the facts. Given those facts, why do you think the officer is in the wrong, rather than Lyoya?

Doubling down on the misogyny is not a convincing argument. She is pretty much an arrogant dumbbell.
You have a ridiculously broad definition of "misogyny".

However, upon further reflection, I withdraw me calling her a "bitch". It was uncalled for. The females of canis lupus familiaris have done nothing to deserve such a comparison. For that matter, neither did free weights.

I'm not the one who has a persistent and irrational animus towards black shooting victims and #BLM.
Animus toward #BLM is quite rational. They are a horrible organization that has set race relations in this country back decades.
I do not have any animus toward Lyoya. I wish he had made better choices and was alive.
I do have an animus toward faux-liberal media that tries to sanitize him and pretend that he had no fault in what happened to him. Take for example NPR.
Patrick Lyoya fled Congo to escape war. A traffic stop in Michigan cost him his life
It's pretty much a hagiography. No mention of warrants or criminal record. Not even of the revoked license. Even the NY Times piece was much more evenhanded.

Of course you do.
Because it fits the facts. Did you even watch the video?

There is no basis in rationality for your conclusion.
You know, argumentation is more than automatic gainsaying of everything the other person says.
Which parts of the paragraph you were replying to do you disagree specifically, and, most importantly, why? Please be specific.

P.S.: As I told Elixir, learn to quote, oldtimer.
 
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Derec

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Shooting someone in the back of the head when you have him pinned to the ground is definitely wrong, particularly when he is unarmed.
He wasn't pinned to the ground. Pinning somebody implies that they have been immobilized. Lyoya was moving around until the end, trying to get up. Also, unarmed does not mean that he is not a threat. In hand-to-hand combat with a police officer, an unarmed perp can arm him or herself with the officer's weapon. That has happened many times before, sometimes with fatal consequences.

Police Killed With Their Own Guns

"Unarmed" is a red herring with perps who are willing to use force to avoid going to jail.

From what I saw and read, it sounded like Lyoya panicked, grabbed at a taser and the cop panicked, and shot him in the back of the head after he had already subdued him.
Did you watch the whole video? Lyoya was not subdued at any point. He continued to resist throughout the encounter.
I agree that he probably panicked because he did not want to go to jail. But he had plenty of time to stop resisting and comply. What was his goal? To tire the officer down so much that he could get away? Would he resort to harming the officer if he thought it necessary to escape? Do you think the officer should have to take that chance?

I think that shooting a suspect carries a high threshold of reasonableness and need. Shooting one in the back of the head while the suspect is face down on the ground with you on top of him? Quite a lot higher.
Just because the officer was on top of the perp does not mean he was immobilized. He continued to struggle and grab for the taser. He already once successfully got up after the officer was on top of him.

There are many questions about this shooting, starting with whether or not the police officer was correct in pulling him over in the first place:
You do not think fake plates are sufficient grounds to pull somebody over? This is not even a case of expired plates (as in the St. Daunte case), these were plates that belong to another vehicle.

Horrible headline. The only one who questions it is the Lyoya family shyster, and he has a vested interest in muddying the waters. From the article:
TND said:
It's unclear if Schurr knew Lyoya's driver's license was revoked or whether he knew there was an active arrest warrant out for Lyoya. Grand Rapids Police said Lyoya was pulled over because of a license plate did not match the car's registration.
"If you determine the plate is not valid and pull them over, you have a legitimate, legal traffic stop," Langham said.
Unlike family shyster Ven Johnson, Lewis Langham, a former police officer and now a defense attorney, is a disinterested party here.

FFS, police need to really, really, really learn that shouting at people when you have a gun pointed at them is unlikely to get you a calm, reasoned response to whatever question or demand you are shouting. Instead, people panic and someone gets hurt, often dead. Of course it's usually the person who is being shouted at so no big deal I guess, especially if his skin is dark.
There is no evidence that Lyoya's skin color had anything to do with this. Why do you leftists want to make everything about race?

FWIW, racism is an enormous problem in Grand Rapids:
Funny how "racism" is always just anti-black racism. Never anti-white racism. For example Al Sharpton, who made a lucrative career out of hating whitey, spoke at St. Patrick of Lyoya's funeral.
Or how about this tweet?


"Cave imp" (and similar) is a common slur against white people by black nationalists and black power types. Note that this is not considered hate speech by "totally unbiased" Twitter moderators. :rolleyes:
 

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What the fuck does some random tweet have to do with well documented racism in Grand Rapids?

Police need to quit shouting at people because it’s extremely ineffective at communicating what you want someone to do. That has absolutely nothing to do with skin color.
 

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James Woods the actor used to do this all the time on Twitter too. Find a crime committed by a black person caught on camera and wave it around to prove to everyone that POC are bad. His followers threads were big on this type of content.

I'm not accusing you of this Derec, Im sure your motives are pure.
 

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And judgments from the police or DAs or you are?
Of course not, although police and DAs are more knowledgeable on the matters of law than 12 random people.
But we should look at the actual facts of the case no matter what DAs and juries say. ........
Facts held shape opinions and judgments, but so do biases and values. The jurors in that civil case heard testimony (which you did not), and saw all the evidence (which you did not). Of course, you can disagree with their unanimous verdict, but their verdict is clear evidence that your opinion was not widely held as valid.





You have a ridiculously broad definition of "misogyny".

However, upon further reflection, I withdraw me calling her a "bitch". It was uncalled for. The females of canis lupus familiaris have done nothing to deserve such a comparison. For that matter, neither did free weights.....
With each response you confirm my observation.
I'm not the one who has a persistent and irrational animus towards black shooting victims and #BLM.
Animus toward #BLM is quite rational. They are a horrible organization that has set race relations in this country back decades.....
Every organization has it good people and bad people. One could make the same comment about the police if one were to focus on the bad apples.

Of course you do.


There is no basis in rationality for your conclusion.
You know, argumentation is more than automatic gainsaying of everything the other person says.
Just following your example.
Which parts of the paragraph you were replying to do you disagree specifically, and, most importantly, why? Please be specific.
There is no evidence that another police officer on the scene would have prevented that tragedy.
P.S.: As I told Elixir, learn to quote, oldtimer.
The quality of my quotes reflected the quality of your responses.
 

Loren Pechtel

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Shooting someone in the back of the head when you have him pinned to the ground is definitely wrong, particularly when he is unarmed.

From what I saw and read, it sounded like Lyoya panicked, grabbed at a taser and the cop panicked, and shot him in the back of the head after he had already subdued him.

I think that shooting a suspect carries a high threshold of reasonableness and need. Shooting one in the back of the head while the suspect is face down on the ground with you on top of him? Quite a lot higher.

There are many questions about this shooting, starting with whether or not the police officer was correct in pulling him over in the first place:
Saw?? Did you not see an extended struggle over the taser? The cop didn't fire because of a grab at the taser. I think the cop fired at the loss of the taser--which would be perfectly justified. Means, motive and opportunity:

Means: Yes, use the taser to incapacitate the officer, take his gun. Even if it's already been fired it still works at contact range.

Motive: The guy has already shown he doesn't intend to permit the officer to arrest him. The officer isn't required to bet his life on how far the guy will go in resisting.

Opportunity: He's within contact range on the taser.
 

Derec

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"American of great distinction" is the new "Prince of Brooklyn Center" or "the day he was killed, he was spreading the word of Jesus Christ".

'Enough is enough:' Friends, family gather for Patrick Lyoya's funeral

Fox17 said:
Congresswoman Brenda Lawrence spoke at the funeral.
“This is personal to me,” said Rep. Lawrence.
Lawrence is Michigan’s only member of Congress of African descent. Rep. Lawrence honored the Lyoya family during her speech, proclaiming Patrick as an “American of great distinction.”

He was a poser and a criminal. There is nothing "of great distinction" in Patrick Lyoya's life. Dudes like him are a dime a dozen. And Congresswoman Brenda Lawrence is an idiot for saying what she said.
 

Gospel

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If only black people would stop glorifiying or supporting those who glorify thug life will we be able to affect change and reduce rap sheets. I think if we stop supporting artists that glorify violence we may have a chance. For exaple these guys,

Thug life glorifier and profiteer Puff Daddy
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thug life glorifier and profiteer Ja Rule
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Thug life glorifier and profiteer Lil Wayne
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Thug life glorifier and profiteer 50 Cent
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Thug life glorifier and profiteer Lil Pump.
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If we can just stop the black community from supporting these people and put their money in their community instead we might be able to make a difference.
 

Gospel

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If we can just stop the black community from supporting these people
If we could stop white people … problem solved.

I'm very serious about the hood culture and the people they admire (or strive to be tougher or crazier than). It's a real thing. This doesn't mean that outside influences are nonexistent for example; most thug life music artists get the majority of their money from the white population. But it is a very serious problem in our neighborhoods and seeing success stories of how the life of crime was used to get out of the hood you'd think people would actually give it a go.
 

Trausti

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If we can just stop the black community from supporting these people
If we could stop white people … problem solved.

I'm very serious about the hood culture and the people they admire (or strive to be tougher or crazier than). It's a real thing. This doesn't mean that outside influences are nonexistent for example; most thug life music artists get the majority of their money from the white population. But it is a very serious problem in our neighborhoods and seeing success stories of how the life of crime was used to get out of the hood you'd think people would actually give it a go.

Three years ago, Lamar Grace left Detroit for the suburb of Southfield. He got a good deal — a 3,000-square-foot colonial that once was worth $220,000. In foreclosure, he paid $109,000.

The neighbors were not pleased.


"They don't want to live next door to ghetto folks," he says.

That his neighbors are black, like Grace, is immaterial. Many in the black middle class moved out of Detroit and settled in the northern suburbs years ago; now, due to foreclosures, it is easy to buy or rent houses on the cheap here. The result has been a new, poorer wave of arrivals from the city, and growing tensions between established residents and the newcomers.
 

Don2 (Don1 Revised)

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Shyster is too good a word for them.

You've been told before but for some reason...

Every word that we speak carries its own history. A tale of travel, a silly story or heavy hatred in its every syllable. Ethnophaulisms, or ethnic slurs, have their own etymology, which is important to understand to see why these words should not continue in modern vocabulary. The JT collected this short, incomplete list of words used against Jewish people to explore where they came from.

...

Shyster: Readers, please be warned and take care that this one is particularly offensive. This word was defined as “unscrupulous lawyer” in 1843’s U.S. slang according to the Online Etymology Dictionary, probably altered from German Scheisser “incompetent worthless person,” from Scheisse “shit” from Old High German skizzan “to defecate.”
 

Derec

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You've been told before but for some reason...

Told what exactly? That some website considers the term offensive?

I know where the term (likely) comes from. "Scheisser" - "shitter" - a fitting term for a bullshit artist hearse chaser like Crump. And he is not even Jewish btw.

I have noticed this from you and other posters on the left. Whenever you have zero arguments about the actual issue of the thread, you like to belabor minutiae such as this "language police" derail.
 
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Playball40

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The list of his previous crimes needs some clarification. The "unlawful use of a motor vehicle" is really stealing cars. I wonder if the car he drove that fateful day was stolen or why else there would be fake plates on it. So far, the police won't confirm this one way of the other:
What??? No. That is not equal to stealing cars.

People around here do that all the time. They have three cars and one license plate. Or they keep old plates from previous cars so that they have a plate while driving around, but that plate was long ago made inactive, but they don’t have money to register or insure the current one. It’s not legal, but they do own all the cars, and none of them are stolen. This one might be stolen, but the mis-matched plate is not what proves it.
And let's NOT FORGET, the police would have had to have RUN THE PLATE to know it was a mis-match. They didn't PULL HIM OVER for that - they saw a black guy in a car and just decided he looked suspicious.
 

Loren Pechtel

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The list of his previous crimes needs some clarification. The "unlawful use of a motor vehicle" is really stealing cars. I wonder if the car he drove that fateful day was stolen or why else there would be fake plates on it. So far, the police won't confirm this one way of the other:
What??? No. That is not equal to stealing cars.

People around here do that all the time. They have three cars and one license plate. Or they keep old plates from previous cars so that they have a plate while driving around, but that plate was long ago made inactive, but they don’t have money to register or insure the current one. It’s not legal, but they do own all the cars, and none of them are stolen. This one might be stolen, but the mis-matched plate is not what proves it.
And let's NOT FORGET, the police would have had to have RUN THE PLATE to know it was a mis-match. They didn't PULL HIM OVER for that - they saw a black guy in a car and just decided he looked suspicious.
Some places have cops that are sitting there run plates they see.

There are also automatic plate readers but whether they can figure out the plate doesn't match the car I don't know.
 

Toni

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Shyster is too good a word for them.

You've been told before but for some reason...

Every word that we speak carries its own history. A tale of travel, a silly story or heavy hatred in its every syllable. Ethnophaulisms, or ethnic slurs, have their own etymology, which is important to understand to see why these words should not continue in modern vocabulary. The JT collected this short, incomplete list of words used against Jewish people to explore where they came from.

...

Shyster
: Readers, please be warned and take care that this one is particularly offensive. This word was defined as “unscrupulous lawyer” in 1843’s U.S. slang according to the Online Etymology Dictionary, probably altered from German Scheisser “incompetent worthless person,” from Scheisse “shit” from Old High German skizzan “to defecate.”
Also: Shylock, from Merchant of Venice by Shakespeare.
 

Derec

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And let's NOT FORGET, the police would have had to have RUN THE PLATE to know it was a mis-match. They didn't PULL HIM OVER for that - they saw a black guy in a car and just decided he looked suspicious.
Police can run somebody's plates BEFORE they pull them over. The car Schurr was driving in particular was equipped with an automatic license plate reader.

You have zero evidence that Lyoya was pulled over for "driving while black". Do you think he just happened to pull over a guy with mismatched plates, revoked driver's license and two arrest warrants by accident?
 

Toni

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Also: Shylock, from Merchant of Venice by Shakespeare.
I do not think these two are etymologically related. Besides, Shylock wasn't even a lawyer.
I do not think that those who use ethnic slurs are terribly particular at the precise derivation of the slurs they use. Or know the difference.
 

Derec

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I do not think that those who use ethnic slurs are terribly particular at the precise derivation of the slurs they use. Or know the difference.
Just because a word is of non-English origin does not make it an ethnic slur. "Shyster" is a slur, if you want to call it that, against unethical lawyers. It has no ethnic component.
 

Jarhyn

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So, this whole thread is a dumpster fire...

Imagine you have a gun for a moment and someone who is a bit of an idiot, and really afraid of your gun, and you need that person to do something they don't want to do.

There are only a few things you can do.

You can speak to them.

You can discharge the weapon (at them or in a "safe" direction).

Of speaking to them, you can do it at various volumes and bearings.

Yelling will only make them more hopped up on adrenaline.

So will firing the weapon.

It stands to reason then that talking to them at a reasonable volume in a low calm voice and helping direct them to what they need to do to get the gun no longer pointed at them might be the most reasonable choice here.

The less control that a person exhibits over their voice, the more someone's voice shifts as they shout, the less enunciated their commands, the more panicked the person listening will be, the more apparent it is that the person with the gun is "froggy" and may shoot no matter what is done. Why is it being "froggy"? IDFK, ask my Drill Sgt.

"Getting froggy" breeds hesitation, and jumpiness in the person being commanded.

The officer here "got froggy", and then someone died.
 

Toni

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I do not think that those who use ethnic slurs are terribly particular at the precise derivation of the slurs they use. Or know the difference.
Just because a word is of non-English origin does not make it an ethnic slur. "Shyster" is a slur, if you want to call it that, against unethical lawyers. It has no ethnic component.
It did where I come from. I learned my slurs from those who were not terribly familiar with Shakespeare or particular about the difference between lawyers and loan sharks.
 

Derec

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It did where I come from.

Is that the same one horse town you usually like to regale us about?

But enough about policing language. Let's get back to policing the streets. What do you think about the Patrick Lyoya case?
 
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