Noah and the flood

[steve_bank]

The question of minimum population size came up on another thread.

If all surface life was killed in the flood leaving only Noah and company, then every huann group existing today must have come from Noah.

Blacks, whites, asians and so on. Further in the time scale from the alleged time of the flood to the rise of advanced cultures like Egypt and China children would have to be changing generation by generation. It would have to be observable by parents.

How did diversity in humans come about starting with Adam and Eve followed by the Noah bottleneck?

Hey wife, how come baby has slanted eyes?

 

[phands]

There was no noah. There was no flood.

Move on.

 

[steve_bank]

There was no noah. There was no flood.

Move on.

And who the fuck are you? Pope of the internet?...heeheeeheeeheee.

It was an obious quetion for theists to respond to. I always have to rember to connect the dots for people.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

The Noah story is a fable, as any intelligent person knows. It was adopted from Babylonian literature while the Jews were in exile.

It doesn't rain 725 feet of rain everyday for 40 days, ever.

 

[Lion IRC]

Noah’s family (all heterosexuals BTW) spread out and went their separate ways continuing on to live God’s blessing to be fruitful and populate the Earth. And as descendants of Adam, they likely shared his skin pigmentation.

Adam (אדם) literally means "red", and there is an etymological connection between adam and adamah, adamah designating "red clay" or "red ground" in a non-theological context

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adamah

This initial skin pigmentation would be a useful starting point for subsequent variation in skin colour as Ham, Shem and Japheths descendents spread out around the world living in different climates.

 

[steve_bank]

Noah’s family (all heterosexuals BTW) spread out and went their separate ways continuing on to live God’s blessing to be fruitful and populate the Earth. And as descendants of Adam, they likely shared his skin pigmentation.

Adam (אדם) literally means "red", and there is an etymological connection between adam and adamah, adamah designating "red clay" or "red ground" in a non-theological context

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adamah

This initial skin pigmentation would be a useful starting point for subsequent variation in skin colour as Ham, Shem and Japheths descendents spread out around the world living in different climates.

So, there was evolutionary adaptation by selection in new environments? Creationists call that micro evolution while rejecting the greater scope of evolution.

You Are saying Adam and Eve carried all the genetic variation we see today? Have not heard that one before.

Adam was red skinned? There is no possible way to trace the mening back to original documents, there are no orginal documents.

My point was the time scale. Post flood Egyptian and other civilizations with distinct languages and culture and genetic diversity would had to have oend overnight so to speak. A dozen people of the Arc leading to all that including the number of humans would be impossible.

Fair skinned white Europeans to blacks in the African plains and Pygmies for that matter.

 

[Lion IRC]

All things are possible for God
(See Luke 1:37)

 

[Worldtraveller]

All things are possible for God
(See Luke 1:37)

All things are possible for Ra.
All things are possible for Thor.
All things are possible for Zues.
All things are possible for Ghanesh.

....the list goes on. Thing is: there's no evidence for any of them that can't be claimed as evidence for all of them.

There is specifically no evidence for any kind of global flood, and lots of evidence against (in that most known physical principles would have to be violated).

 

[Sarpedon]

Hey Lion, can you tell me when all this happened?

How long was it from the ark to the tower of Babel, for existence? And the date of the Tower please. Because according to the bible, the races didn't start diverging after the ark, but after the Tower.

 

[ideologyhunter]

Me and Moogly are in the same ark on this one. Jesus Christ, discussion of the logical imperatives of Noah's Ark? Why not discuss the physics of Humpty Dumpty and his great fall? An eggshell thick enough to hold in human-sized organs would need to fall at a velocity of --of -- is this me talking, or the Ecstasy?
Listen, if you want to disprove Noah's Ark, forget about discussions of square cubits or debris on Mt. Ararat or what the carnivores ate for 40 days (or 150 days, because it's a fun Bible, innit?) Just look at Noah's age as he built the Ark. He was 600, but we can assume a cut, fit 600. I'm 1/10th of that. I lost my car keys today. I submit that at age 600, Noah would have daydreamed and nailed his dick to the gopher wood. That would have thrown off God's schedule entirely. Any challenges from the inerranticists?

 

[phands]

There was no noah. There was no flood.

Move on.

And who the fuck are you? Pope of the internet?...heeheeeheeeheee.

It was an obious quetion for theists to respond to. I always have to rember to connect the dots for people.

Dunno about pope....maybe an antipope. And why bother to debate the never-happened with idiots who cite abject guff like what LIRC regurgitated?

We must be about due for a replay of the moronic Walt Brown and his HydroPlates brain-fart.

 

[steve_bank]

All things are possible for God
(See Luke 1:37)

Actually that summarizes thjem ,odern history of Christianity and sconce. God works in mysterious ways unfathomable to us mere humans.

When cornered in an argument and can not fit an explanation into scripture say it is god that made it happen. There are different fossils at different depts. in the Earth, god must have placed them there when he created the Earth, circa 19th century.

 

[steve_bank]

I forgot this one, Cosby as Noah.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bputeFGXEjA

 

[Lion IRC]

Hey Lion, can you tell me when all this happened?

Nope. I don’t even have strong opinion.
And neither is it a matter of Christian orthodoxy or salvation to believe in a particular timeline.

How long was it from the ark to the tower of Babel, for existence? And the date of the Tower please. Because according to the bible, the races didn't start diverging after the ark, but after the Tower.

The word “race” is unscientific. Show me the science which defines where one race begins and another race stops.

 

[Sarpedon]

Quite correct. The concept was quite popular among Christians over the years. Call it groups sharing the same language then.

And your timeline evasions are telling. I'm not asking about christian orthodoxy. I'm wondering when all this had time to happen. You can't leave for 15 minutes and then come back claiming you've played an entire regulation soccer game and not raise a few eyebrows.

If you think these are literal events that had to happen, you must have at least some idea of when they happened. We've had this conversation before, and I expected you would dodge again, but I have to shine the spotlight on your dishonesty whenever I can. It's really quite comical that one would have the opinion that certain things definitely happened, and that it is important to believe that they did, but it is absolutely unimportant to have an opinion on when they happened.

As I said before: If you say that something happened, it is fair for me to ask 'when?' If you can't answer 'when?' you have to answer 'well why do you think it happened, if you don't know when?'

 

[Lion IRC]

Scientists aren’t dishonest when they say they don’t know.
It’s not timeline evasion.

 

[Lion IRC]

Is Sarpedon Greatest Iam ?

 

[Elixir]

Quite correct. The concept was quite popular among Christians over the years. Call it groups sharing the same language then.

And your timeline evasions are telling. I'm not asking about christian orthodoxy. I'm wondering when all this had time to happen. You can't leave for 15 minutes and then come back claiming you've played an entire regulation soccer game and not raise a few eyebrows.

If you think these are literal events that had to happen, you must have at least some idea of when they happened. We've had this conversation before, and I expected you would dodge again, but I have to shine the spotlight on your dishonesty whenever I can. It's really quite comical that one would have the opinion that certain things definitely happened, and that it is important to believe that they did, but it is absolutely unimportant to have an opinion on when they happened.

As I said before: If you say that something happened, it is fair for me to ask 'when?' If you can't answer 'when?' you have to answer 'well why do you think it happened, if you don't know when?'

My favorite timeline ridiculousness has to do with evolution...
Somehow, a single boatload of critters exploded into more than a hundred million species after the Good Ship Ark I ran aground. Okay, that might be something that some quasi-reasonable people can accept. But it is simply not believable that nobody bothered to note the thousands of new species that were popping up every week/day/hour during this amazing event. I know that if a crockoduck suddenly appeared in my yard or aquarium, I'd be more than a little bit dumbfounded and would do whatever was in my power to document it. Almost all of these new species would be like crockoducks to those humans who were around to witness their appearance. But not one word about it - anywhere.
This problem also goes to the distribution of that hundred million species. I truly love the creo notion that kangaroos were blown to Australia by a volcano and some of the other straws to which they cling to try to "address" this little problem (when they actually try).

 

[Elixir]

When cornered in an argument and can not fit an explanation into scripture say it is god that made it happen. There are different fossils at different depts. in the Earth, god must have placed them there when he created the Earth, circa 19th century.

Lol - reminds me of a CARM conversation wherein I asked about the fact that old earth geologic theory pointed Neil Shubin's team to the exposed Devonian rock on Ellesmere Island, and old earth evolutionary theory implied that a transitional "fishapod", if it ever existed, should appear in such rock. So they went to Ellesmere island for several summers, and lo and behold, found the predicted fishapod (tiktaalik). I asked how that could have happened if both old-earth geology and old-earth evolution theories were incorrect. Was God simply favoring scientists over his "faithful", or what?
The only answer I got was this:
"Simple. They just looked in the Fish Layer!"



This, at a site that bans not only "Fundies Say The Darnedest Things", but even the acronym FSTDT!!!

 

[Sarpedon]

I've always been Sarpedon.

You are correct that scientists often admit uncertainty. However that does not mean they don't at least have a guess. Name one thing that scientists say happened, but they don't even give a range of when. I'm not asking for a precise date. How about a 500 year range, can you do that?