Nonwhites liking white racist politicians

[lpetrich]

Nonwhite Voters Are Not Immune to Right-Wing Populism - "From Toronto’s Rob Ford to Donald Trump, racist candidates attract nonwhite support. What gives?"

Starts off with Rob Ford, former mayor of Toronto, ON, CA.

In 2010, the city of Toronto, one of the most ethnically diverse places in the world and a supposed bastion of liberalism, elected a man widely considered to be a racist as its mayor. Rob Ford was a vulgar and incoherent oaf, a former city councilor who clashed with his colleagues in public and went on racist tirades against seemingly every minority group. But when Ford successfully ran for office, it wasn’t on the wave of a white backlash against diversity, as one might have expected. Instead it was immigrants and minorities, the very people Ford was supposedly insulting, who helped power his run. Not only that, for all his unapologetic crudity — probably even because of it — they loved him.

...
The more the media condemned him, the better Ford looked in the eyes of his supporters. Ford didn’t offer much in terms of policies or good governance, but his outlandish personality represented an “upraised middle finger,” as Toronto Life put it, against what many people felt was an arrogant, hypocritical, and morally self-satisfied establishment.

Seems like they liked him for being a boor.

One reason may be that, for a lot of nonwhite voters, Trump simply did not fit their definition of racism. The understanding of what constitutes racism is often different across class lines, especially when we’re talking about very ambiguous concepts like “tropes” and “dogwhistles.” Even when Trump makes what seem like obviously racially coded claims about immigration or crime, it’s not clear that people of color feel he’s talking about them personally. Trump seems glad to embrace Black and Latino supporters, for example, as long as they seem to fit with a certain image of success and conservatism.

Cubans, for instance, may feel that they are legitimate immigrants, as opposed to all those other Latinx immigrants.

Conservative rhetoric about issues like immigration, policing, and crime often appears to resonate with Black and Latino voters at least as much as conservative white voters — sometimes they even receive it more warmly. Both groups, along with a significant chunk of Asian Americans, also lean conservative on some issues, particularly religion, compared with white progressives who make up much of the Democratic voting coalition. All this, though, has not translated into majority support for the Republican Party — at least not yet — but it should be a serious warning sign to Democrats about taking nonwhite voters for granted.

...
In electoral politics, the picture tends to be more muddled, on account of several factors. For instance, it is clear that the charges against Trump as a racist are not just coming from educated white elites: Many of the activists, politicians, and ordinary people sounding the alarm about the president are themselves people of color from nonelite backgrounds.

Omarosa Manigault-Newman claims that she tried to talk some sense into Trump about racial issues. He worked with a black woman - her - but it didn't seem to stop him from having horrible stereotypes.

"It’s possible, for example, that his strongman appeal resonated with men for whom gender had more salience than racial identity in their voting decisions." - that seems likely. Trump did better among men than among women not only for white ones, but also for black ones and Hispanic ones.

 

[repoman]

Maybe they don't want to be subjected to "an unrelenting stream of immigration."



But in reality the Republicans, Trump included, do nothing about it either. They just posture differently, which is what the sheeple are responding to.

 

[Politesse]

Weird question, from my POV. Mexican-Americans were always assumed to be Republican when I was growing up, and it's still in the air a bit,there's a strong generational divide on how important religious issues like abortion are for individual voters. A person can care more about more issues than just one.

Refugees, I have found, often gravitate toward the politicians who are taking the firmest stance against the regime they are escaping, regardless of party affiliation. The DNC may have been shocked to lose Florida, but they really shouldn't be. The reaction ex-Cubans have toward the word "socialism" is not some new thing invented last month, it's been a consistent theme.

 

[Swammerdami]

When speaking of minorities who vote for the liars, don't forget that many of them are fake, e.g. "sock-puppet" accounts:

On Tuesday afternoon, Pennsylvania politician Dean Browning — a white, heterosexual, self-described "proud pro-life & pro-2A Christian conservative" — tweeted, "I'm a black gay guy and I can personally say that Obama did nothing for me, my life only changed a little bit and it was for the worse."

The tweet continued: "Everything is so much better under Trump though. I feel respected — which I never do when democrats are involved."

Browning, who is a former commissioner in Lehigh County, Pennsylvania, sent this tweet in response to one of his earlier posts, in which he said, "What Trump built in 4 years, Biden will destroy in 4 months."

Browning claims that he was relaying a message from “Dan Purdy” but investigation shows that that name was associated with several other socks; and ...

@DanPurdy322 is an account with a cartoon of a Black man wearing a beanie as its avatar and a Trump 2020 logo as its header. As people on Twitter soon discovered, it also has a history of posting extremely racist and sexist remarks. Sample tweets include “Black ppl can’t count” and “black women will be the death of America,” among many others, in Purdy’s short time on the platform.

The VOX article mentions that

Many [Twitter accounts alleging blackness] used photos of Black men from news reports or stock images, including one in which the text “black man photo” was still watermarked on the image. White nationalists have also had a history of disguising as “antifa” online to sow fear toward leftists.

A good rule of thumb is: If a Republcian says it, assume it is a lie.

 

[TomC]

Nonwhite Voters Are Not Immune to Right-Wing Populism - "From Toronto’s Rob Ford to Donald Trump, racist candidates attract nonwhite support. What gives?"

The problem I have with this OP is the implication that only white people are racist. Of course they're not the only racists. Racism isn't based on a phenotype, it's based on human psychology and mental processes.

We are a tribal species. And we depend upon categorization to negotiate every day life. And the word racism has spread to include nearly every ethnic distinction, like the difference between Israeli Jews and and the Muslim Palestinians. They're almost indistinguishable, ethnically.

Non-white people aren't different. They've got their own personal biases and interests, and oftentimes those coincide with those of other flavors of racists. So, they're just as likely to join forces with a white racist as anybody else.
Tom

 

[Politesse]

It also reflects the longheld belief of the DNC that non-whites owe them votes in exchange for not being overtly racist. An attitude which probably costs them more votes than it gains them. I know for a fact that reservation communities get very tired of politicians who come around once every two years, promise the moon, and then return to Washington to resume ignoring any and all Native concerns as usual. Regardless of Party. The question should not be "Waaah, why aren't minorities voting for us like they are supposed to?" It should be "What have we done to substantively improve the lives of people who usually get abused or ignored by their government, including ourselves?"

 

[Worldtraveller]

It also reflects the longheld belief of the DNC that non-whites owe them votes in exchange for not being overtly racist. An attitude which probably costs them more votes than it gains them. I know for a fact that reservation communities get very tired of politicians who come around once every two years, promise the moon, and then return to Washington to resume ignoring any and all Native concerns as usual. Regardless of Party. The question should not be "Waaah, why aren't minorities voting for us like they are supposed to?" It should be "What have we done to substantively improve the lives of people who usually get abused or ignored by their government, including ourselves?"

I'm hoping the 'gang' will slowly get the DNC to realize this. Not holding my breath, but I do have a little hope.

 

[Derec]

Maybe these politicians are not "racist" as claimed by the OP.

"Racism" has become a completely useless term because it has been thrown around so much, and so inconsistently.
Be against illegal immigration? Racist!
Be against racial preferences? Racist!
Literally say that white people were created in a laboratory by a black scientist named Yakub? Totally NOT racist, because "black people can't be racist".

 

[Elixir]

Maybe these politicians are not "racist" as claimed by the OP.
"Racism" has become a completely useless term because it has been thrown around so much, and so inconsistently.

I think the term has no meaning for people who are incapable of the sort of introspection required to see racism within oneself.

 

[Derec]

It also reflects the longheld belief of the DNC that non-whites owe them votes in exchange for not being overtly racist.

While nobody owes any party a vote, I find this idea that certain groups should base their votes on a party getting them special treatment by the government very dangerous.
All citizens should be equal before the law. There should be no legal advantages for somebody because they were born a certain race or ethnicity.

An attitude which probably costs them more votes than it gains them. I know for a fact that reservation communities get very tired of politicians who come around once every two years, promise the moon, and then return to Washington to resume ignoring any and all Native concerns as usual.

Aren't you so-called "Native" (really Siberian) Americans getting enough special treatment as it is?
- monopoly businesses like casinos
- tax exemptions
- special welfare programs
- exemption from drug laws or federal laws prohibiting possession of bird feathers

What more do you want? Automatic federal ban on all development you dislike like pipelines and telescopes?

It should be "What have we done to substantively improve the lives of people who usually get abused or ignored by their government, including ourselves?"

Sure, Jan. I would also feel "abused" and "ignored" by the government if it allowed only members of my ethnic group to start a very lucrative and tax-free business. NOT!

$1 Million Each Year for All, as Long as Tribe’s Luck Holds

Today, the Shakopee Mdewakanton are believed to be the richest tribe in American history as measured by individual personal wealth: Each adult, according to court records and confirmed by one tribal member, receives a monthly payment of around $84,000, or $1.08 million a year.
The financial success of the 480 members of the Shakopee Tribe — whose ancestors 150 years ago were hunted down, slaughtered and eventually exiled from Minnesota — derives from their flourishing casino and resort operation, which on weekends swells the population of their tiny reservation to the size of a city.
“We have 99.2 percent unemployment,” Stanley R. Crooks, the tribe’s president, said as he smiled during a rare interview. “It’s entirely voluntary.”

[...]

While the new commercial casinos turn over much of their revenue to state and local governments, tribal facilities do not pay direct state taxes because of the tribes’ status as sovereign nations.

Yeah, but what has the government done for y'all lately, right?

 

[Derec]

I think the term has no meaning for people who are incapable of the sort of introspection required to see racism within oneself.

Case in point of what I have been trying to say. People like you throw that term at anybody who disagrees with you on policy positions.

 

[Politesse]

While nobody owes any party a vote, I find this idea that certain groups should base their votes on a party getting them special treatment by the government very dangerous.
All citizens should be equal before the law. There should be no legal advantages for somebody because they were born a certain race or ethnicity.


Aren't you so-called "Native" (really Siberian) Americans getting enough special treatment as it is?
- monopoly businesses like casinos
- tax exemptions
- special welfare programs
- exemption from drug laws or federal laws prohibiting possession of bird feathers

What more do you want? Automatic federal ban on all development you dislike like pipelines and telescopes?

It should be "What have we done to substantively improve the lives of people who usually get abused or ignored by their government, including ourselves?"

Sure, Jan. I would also feel "abused" and "ignored" by the government if it allowed only members of my ethnic group to start a very lucrative and tax-free business. NOT!

$1 Million Each Year for All, as Long as Tribe’s Luck Holds

Today, the Shakopee Mdewakanton are believed to be the richest tribe in American history as measured by individual personal wealth: Each adult, according to court records and confirmed by one tribal member, receives a monthly payment of around $84,000, or $1.08 million a year.
The financial success of the 480 members of the Shakopee Tribe — whose ancestors 150 years ago were hunted down, slaughtered and eventually exiled from Minnesota — derives from their flourishing casino and resort operation, which on weekends swells the population of their tiny reservation to the size of a city.
“We have 99.2 percent unemployment,” Stanley R. Crooks, the tribe’s president, said as he smiled during a rare interview. “It’s entirely voluntary.”

[...]

While the new commercial casinos turn over much of their revenue to state and local governments, tribal facilities do not pay direct state taxes because of the tribes’ status as sovereign nations.

Yeah, but what has the government done for y'all lately, right?

Add to the list of ways not to make friends: describing legal obligations as "gifts" that the government "chooses" to grant, and should stop granting in the name of "fairness".

 

[laughing dog]

Maybe these politicians are not "racist" as claimed by the OP.

"Racism" has become a completely useless term because it has been thrown around so much, and so inconsistently.
Be against illegal immigration? Racist!
Be against racial preferences? Racist!
Literally say that white people were created in a laboratory by a black scientist named Yakub? Totally NOT racist, because "black people can't be racist".

You are right - racist is used so indiscriminately and inconsistently that it is difficult to take seriously. "Racist" used to be taken to mean that someone believed that a race (usually their own) was superior to others. Now, the term has been watered down by snowflakes of all races to mean "bigot" or "identify by race".

 

[lpetrich]

Nonwhite Voters Are Not Immune to Right-Wing Populism - "From Toronto’s Rob Ford to Donald Trump, racist candidates attract nonwhite support. What gives?"

The problem I have with this OP is the implication that only white people are racist. ...

People of other races are completely capable of being racist. Consider Leonard Jeffries, with his racist theories of Sun People vs. Ice People. But there aren't a lot of black supremacists in US politics, people who say that we should treat the honkies the way that the honkies treated us.

 

[ronburgundy]

It is true that on average, non-whites in the US are more socially conservative than white liberals who vote Democrat. On many issues from abortion, to LGBT issues, to to Church-state separation issues non-whites often are closer to Republican whites than Democrat whites. And although I can't find any relevant data on it at the moment, it would be surprising if the same wasn't true for sexist views and female equality issues among non-white men relative to white liberal men.

Religiosity has a lot to do with this, as does poverty and hardship which breed religiosity and the forms of fear and intolerance that is the foundation of social conservatism.

Non-whites are certainly capable of bigotry, and the GOP has become the big tent for all forms of bigotry. A non-white whose cares more about aligning with fellow bigots on the issues of gender, LGBT, and religion than they do about opposing racial bigots would likely ally with the GOP. This explains why black men are about twice as likely to be Republicans as black women, who would need to overlook both the racism and sexism of the GOP.

Another source of non-whites in the GOP is likely the military. While there are some liberals and Dems in the military and the partisan gap has reduced somewhat in recent years, the military culture tends to breed conservatism. For starters, there is it's inherently authoritarian nature and non-stop reinforcement of inequalities of respect and power afforded in its ranks (note the inequality inherent to the very concept of rank), and authoritarianism and inequality are core defining features of social conservatism. Further shaping military culture is that white soldiers come disproportionately from GOP controlled states. Most states over-represented in the military are "Red" while most states under-represented are "blue". There are about 6 million non-white vets or active duty alive right now, which is about 11% of the total number of eligible non-white voters. Add to that the spouses, parents, and children of soldiers and you get close to 1 in 3 non-whites who are directly influenced by an allegiance to the armed forces that tends to breed conservatism.

Finally, don't forget about the people who don't care about anyone or anything but lowering their taxes. There are some selfish high income non-whites. And there are also some selfish middle and lower income non-whites who, like their white counterparts, are dumb enough to believe that GOP promises of lower taxes and cut social services will be a net benefit to them.

But these same factors have been at play for decades while the % of non-whites in the GOP remains rather stable, with the exception of Asians who who went from being slightly more Republican in the mid 90's to heavily Democrat now. So, the fear of a mass exodus of non-whites to the GOP is unlikely. The GOP would have to become less racist which is the opposite of what's happening. Plus, since racism and other bigotries are highly overlapping among whites, that would mean they would become less bigoted in other ways and would lose some of their appeal to conservative non-whites. Besides, that would mean the GOP fundamentally changes, is no longer socially conservative, no longer a party that would nominate someone like Trump (or most GOP candidates in the past 20 years), and no longer such a threat to secularism and progressivism.

In sum, it is a good thing for liberals and Dems that white conservatives and the GOP are so racist that they don't provide a viable alternative even to the majority of non-whites who are generally conservative. However, this is not some happenstance but tethered to the nature of social conservatism in a racial context like the US, and cannot change unless the GOP divorces itself from it's socially conservative base for the past half century.

 

[Bomb#20]

$1 Million Each Year for All, as Long as Tribe’s Luck Holds

Today, the Shakopee Mdewakanton are believed to be the richest tribe in American history as measured by individual personal wealth: Each adult, according to court records and confirmed by one tribal member, receives a monthly payment of around $84,000, ...

As to whether the tribe's luck will hold...

A beaming Donald Brant, general manager of Bally's Atlantic City, reported that the casino had "an unbelievable night" Monday, cleaning up at the blackjack table, on the slot machines, and elsewhere."Man, we were on fire all night," Brant said. ... By the end of the night, the casino walked away a major winner, up $515,274.

"I had a sense that we were doing pretty well," Brant said. "So I checked around with the pit bosses, and it turned out that nearly all the dealers and croupiers were way, way ahead. It was amazing. A night like that only comes along five, six times a week, tops."​

 

[Elixir]

I think the term has no meaning for people who are incapable of the sort of introspection required to see racism within oneself.

Case in point of what I have been trying to say. People like you throw that term at anybody who disagrees with you on policy positions.

My point holds regardless of any policy position. I don't consider anyone immune to indulging in refusal to self-examine. Myself included.

 

[southernhybrid]

I decided to watch Shepard Smith's newish news show on CNBC last night just to see what it was like. It was better than I expected, and he did a piece that explains at least a little bit of why some Mexican Americans in Texas voted for Trump. They showed a map of Texas and how the counties along the border voted in the last election. They were mostly very blue. Then they interviewed a good number of Mexican American voters to ask why they voted for Trump this time, as the map was changed drastically from blue to red. The answer was almost one of two things. Most voted for Trump because the worked in the oil business and were worried that the Biden and the Dems would destroy the oil industry, which would put them out of work. A smaller number seemed concerned about social issues like abortion. I think the fear of job loss explained why most of these folks changed parties.

As far as some Black males go, from what I've read, there are two reasons why some voted for Trump. One is the macho thing. The perceive Trump as a man's man, a macho man or some other bullshit term like that. Or, they are very affluent and. they voted for lower taxes. My rather wealthy brother in law did the same thing. He claims that his taxes were much lower under Trump, and since that has always been his primary concern, he voted for Trump. Such voters come in all shades of skin. Btw, my bro in law in of Arabic descent, and Trump certainly isn't a friend of Syrians or Lebanese, but my bro in law doesn't care if Trump is a racist, all he cares about is.....and I quote...."he put more money in my pocket. I assume that some of the very wealthy Black men in Atlanta feel the same way.

Cuban Americans have always tended to be conservative, so that's no great surprise that a good percentage of them supported Trump. They feel for the scary socialist label that Republicans painted the Dems with.

I have a much harder time understanding why so many women continued to support Trump, a sexist man who has been accused of sexual assault by over 20 women. I guess it's just hard to understand why people vote the way they do. Some of us are one item voters. Some of us only vote for something that helps us personally, and some of us are more concerned about what helps the majority of people and what we see as better for the country.

 

[repoman]

This is what is under the surface about the wokes overestimating that everyone else agrees with them:

 

[ronburgundy]

This is what is under the surface about the wokes overestimating that everyone else agrees with them:

Highly irrelevant to this thread, given that the Democratic party is very far from "woke". They nominated an establishment white male boomer who could have been elected as a Republican for most of his career, and is exactly the kind of person likely to try and do a rap song to try and connect with a young racially diverse crowd. Many on the left refused to vote for Biden (1/3 of eligible voters didn't vote), and those that did only did so to oppose someone so vile an devoid of any human decency that they held their nose and allied with classic liberals which many on the left regard as just slightly less evil. Choosing to ally with the opposition to a party that aggressively courts and promotes xenophobia, racism, misogyny, LGBT bigotry, religious hatred, and antiscience theocratic neofascism doesn't require that one be "woke".

The only way that video is relevant is that there sadly are some people whose core values and interests are more aligned with classic liberalism and the Dems, but are also so dangerously stupid to be influenced by alt-right propaganda that uses videos like this "wokeness" as though it has meaningful consequential differences between electing Biden vs. Trump that overshadow that actual consequential difference of that choice.