North Korean defector and her son die of starvation in South Korea after being denied welfare

[Fentoine Lum]

People starve in the south because they see no obligation to make sure you are well-fed or housed.

No obligation?
The article says that they MAY have died of starvation.
And the govt. refers to this case as a possible blind spot in the administration of the various agencies involved, not the result of their official policies.

So, is there any news article showing that defectors are purposefully left to starve in SK?

"And the govt. refers to this case as a possible blind spot in the administration of the various agencies involved, not the result of their official policies."


Gee, how unusual for an authoritarian power structure to deny any and all accountability. Why, we never see that sort of thing here.

 

[Keith&Co.]

People starve in the south because they see no obligation to make sure you are well-fed or housed.

No obligation?
The article says that they MAY have died of starvation.
And the govt. refers to this case as a possible blind spot in the administration of the various agencies involved, not the result of their official policies.

So, is there any news article showing that defectors are purposefully left to starve in SK?

"And the govt. refers to this case as a possible blind spot in the administration of the various agencies involved, not the result of their official policies."


Gee, how unusual for an authoritarian power structure to deny any and all accountability. Why, we never see that sort of thing here.

How is 'we may have a problem' complete denial?

 

[PyramidHead]

I've read a little about tourism in North Korea. Would you go?

From what I've read they assign you a "guide" who makes sure you see only what they want you to see, and that they put on a bit of a show for you to give you a false impression. Is that also lies?

I would love to go, actually, and the tour chaperones are meant as a convenience for the visitor more than anything else. The Koreans in DPRK don't hate foreigners, and are happy to talk to them if the conversation is being engaged in good faith and out of genuine curiosity. If it's some idiot in a suit asking about unicorns, they tend to get irritated. But the chaperones aren't there 24/7 and are usually just workers who want to make sure tourists get a good impression of where they live and work. Given how different things are compared to here, and given how much crap is made up about them, I would say that's not a bad idea.

And just remember, PyramidHead claims to be an anarchist.

Not anymore friendo, anarchism is for suckers

 

[PyramidHead]

Well, if you or any of the other members of the North Korea fan club we got here do go there be sure to grab me one of those Great Leader posters you see everywhere.

Now now. Being sentenced to 15 years hard labour, in a trial lasting less than an hour, for stealing a poster is totally consistent with not being a brutal dictatorship. Though admittedly it's really unfortunate he became the living dead by eating a bad Snickers bar and so North Korea had to mercifully send him home.

Until this thread, I didn't know anybody who was a NK fanboy. My world's a little bit sadder now.

I am quite enjoying this look into another mindset. Please Pyramidhead, tell us more.

What do you want to know? I mean, I'm not going to debunk every idiotic fabrication about the DPRK because it will never convince anybody who already uncritically swallows UN reports and American journalism. I think it's at least somewhat instructive that nobody has refuted (or even attempted to refute) any of the specific points I made. With shit like the Gulf of Tonkin and Iraqi yellowcake uranium still in living memory, to boot.

 

[Fentoine Lum]

"And the govt. refers to this case as a possible blind spot in the administration of the various agencies involved, not the result of their official policies."


Gee, how unusual for an authoritarian power structure to deny any and all accountability. Why, we never see that sort of thing here.

How is 'we may have a problem' complete denial?

", not the result of their official policies."


Here is another example:

U.S. drone strike kills 30 pine nut farm workers in Afghanistan
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-afghanistan-attack-drones-idUSKBN1W40NW

US drone strike intended for Isis hideout kills 30 pine nut workers in Afghanistan
Forty were also injured in the Wednesday attack which struck farmers and labourers who just finished work, Afghan officials say
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/sep/19/us-drone-strike-deaths-afghanistan-pine-nut-workers

We have slaughtered 4000 civilians in Afghanistan this year alone. We're "fighting terrorism" with terrorism, brilliant. What are we doing in Afghanistan again? Targeting ISIS? Who the Saudis support and fund? As we fight the Saudis' wars for them, guard their oil fields militarily, load them up with weaponry and participate in their genocide in Yemen?

Yes the unsubstantial people should never question authority at all, just swallow-n-follow.

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

And just remember, PyramidHead claims to be an anarchist.

Not anymore friendo, anarchism is for suckers

Ah, you stopped pretending. Good.

 

[PyramidHead]

And just remember, PyramidHead claims to be an anarchist.

Not anymore friendo, anarchism is for suckers

Ah, you stopped pretending. Good.

I wasn't pretending, I actually started out as a kind of Chomsky stan in the bottom left quadrant. Got tired of sticking up for untermensche so I went full tankie

 

[Fentoine Lum]

I am quite enjoying this look into another mindset. Please Pyramidhead, tell us more.

What do you want to know? I mean, I'm not going to debunk every idiotic fabrication about the DPRK because it will never convince anybody who already uncritically swallows UN reports and American journalism. I think it's at least somewhat instructive that nobody has refuted (or even attempted to refute) any of the specific points I made. With shit like the Gulf of Tonkin and Iraqi yellowcake uranium still in living memory, to boot.

I'm sure we all recall selling NK nuclear reactors and helping fund the deal don't we? An utterly bipartisan affair, the deal was initiated under the Clinton administration and wrapped up under the Bush administration. The nuclear reactors were sold to NK through a company Don Rumsfeld had once sat on the board of directors of. Seeing as how Bush ponied up something on the order of ~$90M, US taxpayers helped fund the deal. All a mere two years before NK was placed on an "axis of evil" list.

The two faces of Rumsfeld
2000: director of a company which wins $200m contract to sell nuclear reactors to North Korea
2002: declares North Korea a terrorist state, part of the axis of evil and a target for regime change
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2003/may/09/nuclear.northkorea


Rumsfeld Company Sold Nuclear Weapon Equipment to North Korea
https://www.realnews247.com/rumsfeld_company_sold_reactors_to_n_korea.htm

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

I am quite enjoying this look into another mindset. Please Pyramidhead, tell us more.

What do you want to know? I mean, I'm not going to debunk every idiotic fabrication about the DPRK because it will never convince anybody who already uncritically swallows UN reports and American journalism. I think it's at least somewhat instructive that nobody has refuted (or even attempted to refute) any of the specific points I made. With shit like the Gulf of Tonkin and Iraqi yellowcake uranium still in living memory, to boot.

How about that actress the current Kim's father is said to have kidnaped and forced to make movies for him. Is that an urban legend or did that actually happen? I faintly remember hearing about it.

 

[PyramidHead]

I am quite enjoying this look into another mindset. Please Pyramidhead, tell us more.

What do you want to know? I mean, I'm not going to debunk every idiotic fabrication about the DPRK because it will never convince anybody who already uncritically swallows UN reports and American journalism. I think it's at least somewhat instructive that nobody has refuted (or even attempted to refute) any of the specific points I made. With shit like the Gulf of Tonkin and Iraqi yellowcake uranium still in living memory, to boot.

How about that actress the current Kim's father is said to have kidnaped and forced to make movies for him. Is that an urban legend or did that actually happen? I faintly remember hearing about it.

I mean, I'm not going to debunk every idiotic fabrication about the DPRK because it will never convince anybody who already uncritically swallows UN reports and American journalism.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

How about that actress the current Kim's father is said to have kidnaped and forced to make movies for him. Is that an urban legend or did that actually happen? I faintly remember hearing about it.

I mean, I'm not going to debunk every idiotic fabrication about the DPRK because it will never convince anybody who already uncritically swallows UN reports and American journalism.

What? That was just created out of whole cloth? I think they had interviews with them etc. Are you aware of this or are you just dismissing it out of hand?

 

[PyramidHead]

ME: If you want to know how people actually live in the DPRK, how they organize their government, what their historical situation was and how it affects them today, I can post things about that
YOU: Ok
ME: But it's pointless to go through every bizarre rumor and debunk them one by one, now that I have clearly established that many such rumors are uncontroversially debunked
YOU: Ok
ME: So can we talk about something other than bizarre rumors, since they clearly fall into a pattern of unreliable and/or fabricated stories and exaggerations if not satire
YOU: Ok
ME: Ok
YOU: But what about that one time Kim Jong Il rode his bike to the moon

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

Ah, you stopped pretending. Good.

I wasn't pretending, I actually started out as a kind of Chomsky stan in the bottom left quadrant. Got tired of sticking up for untermensche so I went full tankie

Untermensche also thought he was an anarchist.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

And just remember, PyramidHead claims to be an anarchist.

Not anymore friendo, anarchism is for suckers

So why should we think you are less of a sucker now than when you fell for it?

 

[bilby]

The DPRK is heavily sanctioned, so economic hardship is to be expected.

Whatever the real numbers are, and the real causes, sanctions and embargoes only make it worse. If there's real provocation needing a response, targeted military strikes are a better option, to inflict damage onto the regime in power.

The world would be better if we had *free trade with N Korea and Cuba and Iran and all countries, and no economic sanctions, regardless of ideological differences.

*unilateral free trade if necessary

That would certainly help them with their nuclear weapons program - they could just buy warheads and delivery systems from the USA.

Or would you actually not be in favour of unilateral free trade with DPRK, but instead would restrict trade in certain items?

 

[PyramidHead]

And just remember, PyramidHead claims to be an anarchist.

Not anymore friendo, anarchism is for suckers

So why should we think you are less of a sucker now than when you fell for it?

You don't have to think anything in particular about me, but I can see the allure of asking that instead of engaging the substance of what I'm saying