NYPD cops fatally shoot bipolar black man holding metal pipe police mistake for gun on Brooklyn street

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

A bipolar Brooklyn man waving a metal object at passersby was fatally shot by police Wednesday when cops responding to 911 calls for a man with a gun said he “took a two-handed shooting stance” and pointed at them.

The man, identified by family members as Saheed Vassell, 34, was a father of a teenage boy who worked as a welder.

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york...n-metal-pipe-nyc-article-1.3914960#pt0-198097

I would wait a little to see what comes out. We only have the police version of events. Nothing independent.

For example, and this is just theoretical, they are claiming 911 calls said he had a gun. There could have been callers or even people on scene telling police it was not a gun. Or maybe independent witnesses will say it wasn't a shooting stance or it was an obvious joke.

But we'll have to see what kind of independent info comes out.

I will add that pic of "pipe" (more like a whirlydoo) do not really look like a gun. Police shot him 10 times. Was it even necessary?

 

[fast]

On my first read through, I misinterpreted who the welder was. Did anyone else do that?

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

On my first read through, I misinterpreted who the welder was. Did anyone else do that?

Yes.

 

[Derec]

Linky no worky. Here's another article.
NYPD cops fatally shoot bipolar black man holding metal pipe police mistake for gun on Brooklyn street
It says Saheed was bipolar and yet refused treatment. Oh, and this is the object he was holding.

I wonder what that doohickey is and how big it is - the photo doesn't have anything for size reference.

- - - Updated - - -

On my first read through, I misinterpreted who the welder was. Did anyone else do that?

Antecedents are not strong with the authors of that piece, sure.

 

[Derec]

The man, identified by family members as Saheed Vassell, 34, was a father of a teenage boy who worked as a welder.

They could use a an editor.

I would wait a little to see what comes out. We only have the police version of events. Nothing independent.

Well, this person is already blaming white people and gentrification for daring call police on the guy.

For example, and this is just theoretical, they are claiming 911 calls said he had a gun. There could have been callers or even people on scene telling police it was not a gun. Or maybe independent witnesses will say it wasn't a shooting stance or it was an obvious joke.

Blurry, but it does look like a shooting stance.

But we'll have to see what kind of independent info comes out.

Yupp.

I will add that pic of "pipe" (more like a whirlydoo) do not really look like a gun.

I have no idea what that thing is or even how big it is as the photo does not contain any size reference.

Police shot him 10 times. Was it even necessary?

There were four officers, so 2.5 rounds per cop. That's not excessive, provided the decision to shoot in the first place was justified.

In any case, moral of the story is:

 

[Derec]

I think this is him holding the mystery object. At least we now know the size. And he is holding it like a gun.
He also has a history of 17 arrests for domestic violence, but I do not know how these cases were disposed.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

Photos being released may be cherry-picked. Plenty of people from the neighborhood may have known he was joking or harmless. Here is some independent information.

...

Residents described Vassell as a harmless neighborhood nut they would often find talking to himself on the street where he was killed.

...

Eyewitness Jesus Santiago, 55, said he saw Vassell arguing and aiming the rod at residents before the shooting but thought nothing of it, saying it was typical and harmless behavior.

"We know him around here," he said. "He's a little bit crazy but he don't bother us."

...

Santiago estimated 20 to 30 seconds elapsed from the time police arrived till shots were fired.

"Everything happened so fast," he said. "The officers arrived and somebody said, 'He's got a gun.' Nobody said nothing to him. They just started shooting."

Santiago said police were just a few feet from Vassell when they opened fire.

"You could see from a distance that it wasn't a gun," he said. "Why the hell did you have to shoot him ten times?"

Neighborhood resident Bob Dylan, 29, said that Vassell always had the metal rod — which Dylan believes is a showerhead — with him.

“He never had it out, he just kept it on his waist,” Dylan said.

...

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york...ypd-fatal-brooklyn-shooting-article-1.3915962

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I saw a picture at Yahoo News that made it look like he was brandishing something as if he had a gun.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

On my first read through, I misinterpreted who the welder was. Did anyone else do that?

Yes.

Same here. I thought it was weird that they'd mention his kid's job.

If the picture is accurate, it does kind of look like a gun and there's no real issue with their shooting this guy.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

If the picture is accurate, it does kind of look like a gun and there's no real issue with their shooting this guy.

I kind of (like 70%) agree with you. Here are some problems, creating some doubt for me about this:

• In the other thread, police caught a white guy with gun with no shooting or killing;
• He hadn't hurt anyone with it;
• Police didn't say anything to him, like 'drop it' or whatever. If they did give warning, people in the neighborhood could have told them it wasn't a gun;
• It doesn't really look like a gun because the "barrel" is too thin while the rest of it is "missing";
• More information will come out about this.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

On my first read through, I misinterpreted who the welder was. Did anyone else do that?

Yes.

Same here. I thought it was weird that they'd mention his kid's job.

If the picture is accurate, it does kind of look like a gun and there's no real issue with their shooting this guy.

The item on its own doesn't remotely look like a gun, but the picture it looks something like a gun. Whether the cops should have been able to figure it out, who knows. Whether they could have handled the situation differently, who knows. But from the outset, I'm not seeing an abuse of power here.

We need more details to change the initial presumption.

 

[dismal]

On my first read through, I misinterpreted who the welder was. Did anyone else do that?

Perhaps it was written by a reporter with a teenage boy who missed an English class.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

There were four officers, so 2.5 rounds per cop. That's not excessive, provided the decision to shoot in the first place was justified.

Did you hear the joke about the statistician who had one foot in a bucket of ice and the other in a bucket of boiling water? On average, his feet were warm. We've actually got some more information now about this. One officer did not shoot at all. Why not? Perhaps he could see it was not a gun or perhaps he/she did not feel threatened in any way. Who knows. Police are alleging none of them were wearing body cameras which is interesting, maybe.

As to the other 3 officers, that makes an average of 3 1/3 shots per officer but those were the ones that hit, meaning they could have emptied their guns. OR maybe one of them emptied his/her gun and the others each only fired a single shot and then realized it wasn't needed. Again, who knows. Police allege that one officer said "gun" and that is what initiated the shooting. But they had been there 20-30 seconds already before that happened and had already heard from dispatch that it was a gun. So that means they very well did not believe it to be a gun and they were trying to decide if it was or what to do. Maybe. Or his alleged two-handed stance could have freaked out that one cop to say gun even after they had a different strategy to deal with it. Who knows. But then even though someone said gun that one officer did not shoot. Did they freeze or did they say, "no, that's not a gun." Who knows.

There is allegedly no body camera footage.

There are still a lot of unknown things here and we may never get to the bottom of exactly what happened. On its face, it seems unnecessary and terrible but that an individual may have made an honest mistake. Probably? Let's see what else comes out of this, independently.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I think this is him holding the mystery object. At least we now know the size. And he is holding it like a gun.
He also has a history of 17 arrests for domestic violence, but I do not know how these cases were disposed.

In other words, either totally nuts or this was a suicide by cop.

 

[Toni]

I think this is him holding the mystery object. At least we now know the size. And he is holding it like a gun.
He also has a history of 17 arrests for domestic violence, but I do not know how these cases were disposed.

In other words, either totally nuts or this was a suicide by cop.

Loren, the unfortunate man was well known in the neighborhood and well known to be bipolar: he had a serious mental illness. This behavior was not out of the ordinary for him. His neighbors did not consider him a threat.


I've written about it before but being killed by police while mentally ill also happens to white people. Sadly, a few years ago, a mentally ill man who was struggling with depression ran out of his home. His family was concerned for his welfare as he had been suicidal so they called the police, who found him in the middle of a bridge over a small stream. One of the officers saw something in his hand and assumed gun. The officer shot the man who fell into the creek and died of the gunshot wound. What was in his hand was a small pocket knife. He was a threat to exactly no one. Not even Dan'l Boone could have nailed anyone throwing that small pocket knife from that distance.

What such incidents have taught me is that if I am ever concerned about the welfare of anyone who is emotionally over wrought, the last thing I will do is to call the police. Which is tragic.

A friend told me about a program that is much more effective and saves lives:

https://www.mprnews.org/story/2018/04/04/rochester-minnesota-police-social-workers-mental-health

http://www.startribune.com/minneapolis-police-to-try-buddy-system-on-mental-health-calls/392379301/

https://www.lmc.org/page/1/EmbeddedSocialWorkerNovDec2016.jsp

 

[laughing dog]

In other words, either totally nuts or this was a suicide by cop.

Neither excuses his killing by the police.

 

[RavenSky]

On my first read through, I misinterpreted who the welder was. Did anyone else do that?

Perhaps it was written by a reporter with a teenage boy who missed an English class.

good one!

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I think this is him holding the mystery object. At least we now know the size. And he is holding it like a gun.
He also has a history of 17 arrests for domestic violence, but I do not know how these cases were disposed.

In other words, either totally nuts or this was a suicide by cop.

I am sick of hearing people refer to those suffering from mental illness as being "totally nuts".

This seems to be one of those cases where this guy wasn't receiving enough care. Of course, that care costs a fortune. Go America!

 

[Tom Sawyer]

This seems to be one of those cases where this guy wasn't receiving enough care. Of course, that care costs a fortune. Go America!

Mental hospitals are expensive. Bullets are cheap.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

Mental hospitals are expensive.

In the United States, so is medicine and he was off his bipolar medicine for a year (allegedly). Without insurance maybe that could be $200/month. Under President Trump, you no longer have to be insured because Freedom.