Obama immigration executive order watch party

[Ford]

<edit>

Go on...

 

[bilby]

In other words, Obama says you have to be Emperor to do what he is now doing, and he was mistaken in saying he was not Emperor - he is. And after he took power, no one is able to impeach him, and no one has assassinated him (yet) - or started a civil war.

This is what America has become - a nation willing to live under a "benevolent" dictator?

<edit>.

jesus christ

<edit> he just comes back after three days, more powerful than before - although I think he stole that schtick from Obi-Wan Kenobi.

As for Obama, I can see how some people might dislike his politics, or his style of government; <edit>

There has been a lot of hyperbole over the last two hundred and odd years about how bad the incumbent President is; a few have even been assassinated - although in each case, the public response has been horror rather than applause - But I don't recall anywhere near the number of people discussing assassination of the POTUS as though it was a reasonable option, before Obama came to power. He is far from the worst President in history; there just doesn't seem to be a shred of a reason for this. Which leads me to the ugly conclusion that the cause is unreason - and the only virulent unreason that seems to fit the bill is racism.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

He didn't say it was Unconstitutional. He is merely sharpening the pencil due to the circumstances he continues to inherit from a do nothing Republican Party.

When he says he doesn't as president have the power to do something what sort of powers do you think he's referring to?

Super powers? Powers to bend time and space?

I would have thought it pretty obvious he's talking about Constitutional powers.

Hence the "I am not a King" or "We have a system of government that requires the Congress to work with the Executive Branch to make it happen" but not "I am not from Planet Krypton" or "I do not have the mass of a supermassive black hole"

In engineering you typically make a recommendation. Usually the recommendation is conservative. Sometimes the client needs something less conservative because it is resulting in too expensive a design. So you sharpen the pencil. Trim here, trim there. See if that works. And in some rare cases, you really take it to the edge.

I see this is what is happening with Obama. It isn't as if he just got elected the first time and bam! All immigrants are legal now (not like that is what happened anyway). He has been extremely measured up to this point, but the Republicans, when in majority, have refused to pass a immigration reform bill through their own party, despite having the votes to actually get the legislation passed and signed.

What Obama did is not permanent, certainly not the best method of getting anything accomplished, but seemingly it was necessary to address a problem that the Republicans have failed to address since '01.

 

[Nice Squirrel]

Los tanques están en las calles . Obama ha ordenado que todos debemos hablar español ahora . Una abuela y su perro fueron fusilados porque se negaron a aceptar el Dios católico . Obedecer y Live . Obedecer y prosperar !

 

[dismal]

When he says he doesn't as president have the power to do something what sort of powers do you think he's referring to?

Super powers? Powers to bend time and space?

I would have thought it pretty obvious he's talking about Constitutional powers.

Hence the "I am not a King" or "We have a system of government that requires the Congress to work with the Executive Branch to make it happen" but not "I am not from Planet Krypton" or "I do not have the mass of a supermassive black hole"

In engineering you typically make a recommendation. Usually the recommendation is conservative. Sometimes the client needs something less conservative because it is resulting in too expensive a design. So you sharpen the pencil. Trim here, trim there. See if that works. And in some rare cases, you really take it to the edge.

I see this is what is happening with Obama. It isn't as if he just got elected the first time and bam! All immigrants are legal now (not like that is what happened anyway). He has been extremely measured up to this point, but the Republicans, when in majority, have refused to pass a immigration reform bill through their own party, despite having the votes to actually get the legislation passed and signed.

What Obama did is not permanent, certainly not the best method of getting anything accomplished, but seemingly it was necessary to address a problem that the Republicans have failed to address since '01.

Spin, Jimmy, spin.

You should really get paid for your reliably loyal defenses of the indefensible.

There is absolutely no question whatsoever on this one. Obama said multiple times in completely perfect context that he does not have this power. Now you suggest he "sharpened his pencil" and found that he did.

WTF does that even mean in this context? He was supposed to be an expert Constitutional professor before. It's not that long of a document. Did he take a closer look at it and find some new text he was not aware of previously? Exactly what text are we talking about?

You also completely undermine your case (as does he) every time he mentions the Republicans in congress obstructing him as a rationale for doing this. It's like an acknowledgement of the fact that congress has this power and has chosen not to use it. In our system congress choosing not to act does not empower the president to do it. It's rather the opposite. If he has the power he has this power and anything the Republicans do is irrelevant.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

In engineering you typically make a recommendation. Usually the recommendation is conservative. Sometimes the client needs something less conservative because it is resulting in too expensive a design. So you sharpen the pencil. Trim here, trim there. See if that works. And in some rare cases, you really take it to the edge.

I see this is what is happening with Obama. It isn't as if he just got elected the first time and bam! All immigrants are legal now (not like that is what happened anyway). He has been extremely measured up to this point, but the Republicans, when in majority, have refused to pass a immigration reform bill through their own party, despite having the votes to actually get the legislation passed and signed.

What Obama did is not permanent, certainly not the best method of getting anything accomplished, but seemingly it was necessary to address a problem that the Republicans have failed to address since '01.

Spin, Jimmy, spin.

You should really get paid for your reliably loyal defenses of the indefensible.

There is absolutely no question whatsoever on this one. Obama said multiple times in completely perfect context that he does not have this power. Now you suggest he "sharpened his pencil" and found that he did.

WTF does that even mean in this context?

It means they looked deeper into the law.

 

[dismal]

Spin, Jimmy, spin.

You should really get paid for your reliably loyal defenses of the indefensible.

There is absolutely no question whatsoever on this one. Obama said multiple times in completely perfect context that he does not have this power. Now you suggest he "sharpened his pencil" and found that he did.

WTF does that even mean in this context?

It means they looked deeper into the law.

Ah, so the first 20 or so times he spoke about his powers in this area he was just talking out his ass. Then six years into his presidency and after a bad election he decides to actually look at the law to find out what's in it and *boom* it turns out he does have this power.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

It means they looked deeper into the law.

Ah, so the first 20 or so times he spoke about his powers in this area he was just talking out his ass. Then six years into his presidency and after a bad election he decides to actually look at the law to find out what's in it and *boom* it turns out he does have this power.

Man, are you trying to make being obtuse into an art?

When an engineer fine tunes recommendations and design, does that mean they didn't know what they were doing in the first place?

 

[dismal]

Ah, so the first 20 or so times he spoke about his powers in this area he was just talking out his ass. Then six years into his presidency and after a bad election he decides to actually look at the law to find out what's in it and *boom* it turns out he does have this power.

Man, are you trying to make being obtuse into an art?

When an engineer fine tunes recommendations and design, does that mean they didn't know what they were doing in the first place?

Your analogy sucks. The Constitution didn't change. The statute didn't change. Obama didn't "fine tune" anything. He simply completely reversed his position. One day he said the words meant X, the next day he said the words mean not X.

The Engineering analogy would be suddenly deciding Gravity makes things go up.

 

[Nice Squirrel]

He simply completely reversed his position. One day he said the words meant X, the next day he said the words mean not X.

Oh the horror! I for one cannot wait for our Hispanic overlords to rid us of this.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Man, are you trying to make being obtuse into an art?

When an engineer fine tunes recommendations and design, does that mean they didn't know what they were doing in the first place?

Your analogy sucks. The Constitution didn't change.

Neither does physics.

The statute didn't change.

Neither does the building code.

Obama didn't "fine tune" anything. He simply completely reversed his position. One day he said the words meant X, the next day he said the words mean not X.

Or they looked deeper into the precedence of previous rulings on adjacent cases.

The Engineering analogy would be suddenly deciding Gravity makes things go up.

No. The engineering analogy would mean that conservative assumptions were pulled back and more analysis was performed to better relate recommendations relative to the proposed work in lieu of a broader recommendation which is accepted in the industry, but could be improved upon.

 

[KeepTalking]

It means they looked deeper into the law.

Ah, so the first 20 or so times he spoke about his powers in this area he was just talking out his ass. Then six years into his presidency and after a bad election he decides to actually look at the law to find out what's in it and *boom* it turns out he does have this power.

When did he ever say that the president does not have the power to issue executive orders on immigration? He referenced very specific things in the little sound bites you trotted out. Those would be suspending deportation, and changing the law unilaterally. Until he does either one of those things, he has not reversed himself. I have pointed this out several times in this thread, and you have chosen to ignore it. Of course, I don't have much hope that you will do so now, but I am going to keep pointing it out until you do.

 

[dismal]

Or they looked deeper into the precedence of previous rulings on adjacent cases.

Do you actually believe this or is this just the best excuse you could come up with?

And, do you actually think it reflects well on him that he spoke about it multiple times over many years without having bothered to look deeply enough into the issue to be right?

- - - Updated - - -

Ah, so the first 20 or so times he spoke about his powers in this area he was just talking out his ass. Then six years into his presidency and after a bad election he decides to actually look at the law to find out what's in it and *boom* it turns out he does have this power.

When did he ever say that the president does not have the power to issue executive orders on immigration? He referenced very specific things in the little sound bites you trotted out. Those would be suspending deportation, and changing the law unilaterally. Until he does either one of those things, he has not reversed himself. I have pointed this out several times in this thread, and you have chosen to ignore it. Of course, I don't have much hope that you will do so now, but I am going to keep pointing it out until you do.

Did you read the thread?

He also said he had already gone as far as he could go without an act of congress.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Do you actually believe this or is this just the best excuse you could come up with?

Excuse?

And, do you actually think it reflects well on him that he spoke about it multiple times over many years without having bothered to look deeply enough into the issue to be right?

I think it looks worse that the Republicans have failed to do anything on one of their larger rallying cries. Not even when they had full control of Government.

 

[dismal]

Excuse?

Excuse.

And, do you actually think it reflects well on him that he spoke about it multiple times over many years without having bothered to look deeply enough into the issue to be right?

I think it looks worse that the Republicans have failed to do anything on one of their larger rallying cries. Not even when they had full control of Government.

I thought we were talking about Obama reversing his position doing something Obama said was unconstitutional.

 

[KeepTalking]

Do you actually believe this or is this just the best excuse you could come up with?

And, do you actually think it reflects well on him that he spoke about it multiple times over many years without having bothered to look deeply enough into the issue to be right?

- - - Updated - - -

Ah, so the first 20 or so times he spoke about his powers in this area he was just talking out his ass. Then six years into his presidency and after a bad election he decides to actually look at the law to find out what's in it and *boom* it turns out he does have this power.

When did he ever say that the president does not have the power to issue executive orders on immigration? He referenced very specific things in the little sound bites you trotted out. Those would be suspending deportation, and changing the law unilaterally. Until he does either one of those things, he has not reversed himself. I have pointed this out several times in this thread, and you have chosen to ignore it. Of course, I don't have much hope that you will do so now, but I am going to keep pointing it out until you do.

Did you read the thread?

He also said he had already gone as far as he could go without an act of congress.

I have read the thread and listened to the sound bites. He may have felt that way when he made that statement, but he also noted specific things that would be unconstitutional, and those would be the things he felt he could not do. As long as he does not do either of those things with his executive order, then he is not contradicting himself. He may have simply found a new way to achieve what he thought he could not achieve with executive order previously. In my line of work, finding new and innovative ways of doing things without breaking the rules is considered a positive, I'm not sure where that would not be the case. Oh wait, I do know, that would be in Hyper-partisan Land.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

Obama should give congress (now dominated by Republican majority yes?) a set time period to get a law passed on this. Can they do that? If congress doesn't get it done, he will do it by executive decree on a set future date.

Then the Republicans can't really say he is abusing his power and taking it away from the legislators. If they are deadlocked within their own party between the practical and ideological, and they won't do it when they hold both congress and the white house, that means the next president won't do it if he's republican, so Obama really has no choice but to do it before he leaves office, or risk it never happening.

 

[dismal]

I have read the thread and listened to the sound bites.

Maybe these will help:

http://www.factcheck.org/2014/11/obamas-immigration-amnesia/
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...sing-executive-action-on-illegal-immigration/

 

[dismal]

Obama should give congress (now dominated by Republican majority yes?) a set time period to get a law passed on this. Can they do that? If congress doesn't get it done, he will do it by executive decree on a set future date.

Executive decrees are not something we do in place of legislation. The President's power to do things comes from legislation.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

Obama should give congress (now dominated by Republican majority yes?) a set time period to get a law passed on this. Can they do that? If congress doesn't get it done, he will do it by executive decree on a set future date.

Executive decrees are not something we do in place of legislation. The President's power to do things comes from legislation.

Unless the legislature is an ineffectual mess that can't tell it's ass from a hole in the ground. When the system is broken, you can't blame people for acting as if they had a broken system that's not working as it was designed.